Comparative politics

[USSoldier11B 0]

Ok, so I am taking a comparative politics course at my university this semester and I'd like some insider insight and opinions on the political systems of your nations. Particularly Germany, France, and Russia, since those are the countries to be discussed on my next exam.

Thanks!

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

France and Germany are a typical, modern representative democracy. The head of state of Germany (the chancellor) is "put into position" by the party winning the parliamentary elections. You do not cast your vote for the chancellor. You cast your vote for the party, who will then put him into power. The president in Germany is just a figurehead, a bit like the Queen, who is of more use in ceremonies than in anything overly political. But I think he has the power to dissolve parliament, but the Chancellor may have to ask him to do this, not too sure. I'm sure some of our resident Germans can shed some more light on this

Germany is a federal country, as opposed to France which is a centralised one. That means that Germany is leaving a lot of power to the states, whereas in France everything (or most things) are decided by Paris. I'm sure ran will add more to that.

There is a huge debate in Germany at the moment about reforming the welfare state. Truth be told, the German economy is in a rubbish state, practically no growth in the past 2 years, violation of the Euro stability pact 3 yrs in a row, ridiculous demands by the labour unions. I say labour unions because I want to make a comparison with the UK - in the 60s/70s, people in the UK used to work for 3 days per week only, labour unions were more powerful than the government and were effectively ruling the country by deciding to strike for the simplest of reasons and thus killing everything off. This was changed by Thatcher. She destroyed the labour unions and turned the UK economy upside down. The result: a recession for 10 years, but her reforms worked and the UK is now one the strongest economies in the world, certainly number 1 in Europe.

The same thing needs to happen in Germany - take the power from the labour unions, introduce 40hr working weeks, abolish stupid laws that prevent shops from opening on Sundays and prevent them from setting their opening times at will, cut back on benefits and welfare, change the Bundeswehr to a professional army and, more importantly, the idea that Germany is a world leader in everything has to be gotten rid off. Germany at the moment is in shambles, Germany is putting Europe and the Euro at risk - at the moment, the German economy is a liability, and these facts have to be hammered into the German politicians and the Germans themselves. Oh, and whilst we are at it, Germany needs to educate her consumers. Customer service (which is non-existant at the moment) needs to be taught and spending has to be encouraged. A consumer society can keep the economy going, just look at Britain The downside is, a lot of people may overspend. Well, Darwin at work

That is a Greek's point of view who has lived in Greece, Germany and England for several years each

[WhoCares 0]

CIA Factbook

Good for a first start on it ;)

[USSoldier11B 0]

Brits feel free to comment as well, I forgot that the UK will also be on the exam.

[denoir 0]

The result: a recession for 10 years, but her reforms worked and the UK is now one the strongest economies in the world, certainly number 1 in Europe.

Gwahahaah!     Are you drunk?

Ok, now that I've stopped laughing out loud about your misconceptions, I'll clarify.

France & Germany have reached a new stage of economic and social evolution and don't know yet how to handle it. The problem is market saturation. They've reached a stage where the consumer wishes of the population have been reached and increases in profit can't be made by just increasing the production. This is due to two factors: production automation and consumer culture. If we look at a classic example: car production. You have more or less fully automated car factories where everything is assembled by robots.  Second, German consumers (unlike for instance their American counter parts) don't want two, three or four cars. And the result? As the market is saturated, growth is difficult while both lack of growth and automation leads to unemployment. And unemployment costs a lot. Coupled with a growing population (especially through immigration) it gives economic trouble.

The solutions in France and Germany have been to reduce the work week (35 hours in France for instance) and thus sharing the workload over the population. And in theory it's a sensible result. It's better that most people have work, but work a little shorter than some having long work days while others being home unemployed. This hasn't however worked out yet but these are long-term social changes that take time to give results.

Anyway, Ex-Ronin, the point being, the 35/30 hours work week is not the problem but they are an attempt of solving the problem.

And this is a prospect that will sooner or later have to be faced by the rest of the world as well. Our methods for production are getting better and cheaper while we're still humans, limited by our physical presence. You have no need for 100 cars or 500,000 tons of food per day. So infinite growth is impossible. Everything is getting automated as well. What do you do with your society when you can produce anything in any quantity for nothing? France and Germany have just begun to stumble upon the beginnings of these questions. It will be interesting to see what their solution will be. These are problems that will be faced by the rest of Europe in 10-20 years and in say 50 years by America.

Ok, now for Britain. The problems with the British economy are exactly the opposite. They're not doing terribly bad now, but they have some serious infrastructural problems. The industrial revolution was started in Britain. Unfortunately many parts of the country have not evolved beyond that era. People from continental Europe visiting Britain are often very surprised when they see the antiquated insfrastructure: shabby housing, bad roads, 19th century industrial complexes etc. This is of course not true for London and other major cities, but very true for large portions of the country. That's a big problem. In terms of general infrastructure, Britain is behind the rest of Europe by 50-100 years. Another problem is an unreasonable attachement to the past British role in the world. Many Britons have the firm belief that Britain is as much a superpower as it was during the Victorian era. That type of blindness (very common in all countries it should be added) makes it much more difficult to go through with the big infrastructural changes that Britain desperately needs.

In short: German & France - ahead of their time and clueless about how to handle it.

Britain - clinging to old times but desperately needs reconstructive surgery.

[mr burns 131]

Have to agree in your opinion about our economics.

But you forgot the major problem: The poloticians theirselfes !!

The offending (?? right word here ??) partys do spend all their energy in finding any little fault in the other one´s way of politics and discuss the shit out of it instead of finding solutions for our problems. imo there´s no party worth of beeing voted atm

I would add something to your explanation of our political system if i had´nt forgotten all the things i´ve been taught in school...also due to my lack of english knowledge it would be too difficult to describe.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

A former moderator should know better than being as condescending as you for no reason

Anyhow. You are saying unlimited growth is not possible. I agree, but in Germany, market saturation has not been reached, not by a long shot. Certain markets are, compared to Britain, in their infancy, especially the consumer market! Compared to Britain, the consumer market in Germany is in its infancy. There are no educated consumers. This has to change. They have to be educated to start spending. A few examples: no online Pizza order+delivery in Germany. No online supermarket order+delivery in Germany. No cash back facilities in Germany. No promotion of card use in Germany. No easy way of getting loans and mortgages in Germany. All this has to change, there is a lot of money in that that can be squeezed out of the people. People here in Germany have money and no way of spending it properly. Ffs, in Britain I can pay for a can of coke with my debit card. In Germany, I have to check 10 stores to find out that actually takes a card!!

Germany needs to move into the service sector and needs to understand service, because at the moment these things are terribly undeveloped.

As for Infrastructure, there is one important point of difference between the UK and Germany - Germany was built 60 years ago, the UK was never destroyed in the first place. Plus, in the UK you have widespread accountant thinking, trying to maximise returns on investments - which is why old technology is used. It works, so why renew it? This maximisation may give it a slight marode infrastructure, but it also gives the UK a strong economy.

Besides, the infrastructure is not that bad. Shabby housing - it may look so from the outside, but the Brits prefer their red brick style to the continental style, so fair play to them. They also prefer having pipes and wires on the walls, rather than inside. This is not only in older houses the case, but in newly built ones as well. They like it that way, fair play to them. Bad roads - the motorways are excellent, some roads in some parts need investment, mainly in the old industrial towns of Manchester and Newcastle etc, but it is side roads and not main roads that are lacking. Besides, England is not the only country with such problems. I don't understand what you mean by 19th century industrial complexes I've been in a few factories, neither do they look like a 19th century one, nor do they have that equipment. Britain is in a much finer shape than Germany, even if they lack the cosmetics (which waste a lot of Germany's money).

[-33ker 0]

I'm really surprised how well some people know what's going on in Germany.

And yes, we're fucked up if the politicians keep on doing nothing!

Quote[/b] ]A few examples: no online Pizza order+delivery in Germany. No online supermarket order+delivery in Germany. No cash back facilities in Germany. No promotion of card use in Germany. No easy way of getting loans and mortgages in Germany. All this has to change, there is a lot of money in that that can be squeezed out of the people. People here in Germany have money and no way of spending it properly. Ffs, in Britain I can pay for a can of coke with my debit card. In Germany, I have to check 10 stores to find out that actually takes a card!!

Aehm... We already have that...  

Edit:

Quote[/b] ]no online Pizza order+delivery in Germany

This really made me laugh!

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

I'm really surprised how well some people know what's going on in Germany.

And yes, we're fucked up if the politicians keep on doing nothing!

Quote[/b] ]A few examples: no online Pizza order+delivery in Germany. No online supermarket order+delivery in Germany. No cash back facilities in Germany. No promotion of card use in Germany. No easy way of getting loans and mortgages in Germany. All this has to change, there is a lot of money in that that can be squeezed out of the people. People here in Germany have money and no way of spending it properly. Ffs, in Britain I can pay for a can of coke with my debit card. In Germany, I have to check 10 stores to find out that actually takes a card!!

Aehm... We already have that...

Edit:

Quote[/b] ]no online Pizza order+delivery in Germany

This really made me laugh!

No, you don't have that.

Go to www.dominos.co.uk and see what I mean. There is nothing like that in Germany (I don't mean dominos, I mean ordering online).

Go to www.tesco.com and read about home delivery, again, NONE of the German supermarkets do that.

Card-usage is discouraged in Germany. I tried paying by card several times. They either don't have a terminal, or they say "EC card only", not realising that the EC system will disappear on January 1st They never ever heard of Maestro, which is meant to be standard (and is widespread in the UK). It is even harder to find an outlet that will accept credit cards. WTF!? Everyone has credit card facilities?!?!? Apart from German stores of course.

Loans and mortgages in Germany? HA! It is a right royal pain getting any of these here, but in Britain it is almost as easy as walking in to the bank branch, filling out forms and 2 weeks later you have your money. Why do you think do so many people own their house in Britain, whereas in Germany you have to be super wealthy to own it and hence everyone rentin a house?? The housing market in Germany is underdeveloped.

Don't laugh about the pizza online thing, making it easy for the customer to get to the product is very important if you want to make money. You have to allow the customer to buy things whenever HE sees fit, not when the government or the shop times or store location see fit. This is the 21st century and technology has to be used in the hunt for customers.

[denoir 0]

A former moderator should know better than being as condescending as you for no reason

Oh, it's for a very good reason Nick. You're not telling the others here about you great personal disliking of Germany (living in) while you're letting your personal bias dictate your analysis. Ok, so you like living in England better than living in Germany. That doesn't mean however that it's a universal truth, especially when your preference of Britain is for personal reasons. Re-read your original post again and try to read it objectivly and then tell me that it's not your bias talking.

Quote[/b] ]

Ffs, in Britain I can pay for a can of coke with my debit card. In Germany, I have to check 10 stores to find out that actually takes a card!! Germany needs to move into the service sector and needs to understand service, because at the moment these things are terribly undeveloped.

I've always used credit cards in Germany without any problem. But, you could be right - I've never lived in Germany so I don't know the practical details.

About the service sector - sure, why not, but that's not the foundation for economy. Industry is. Take your average African country. Excellent service. You'll have 20 bell-boys carrying your luggage to your room while trying to sell you 50 tons of goods. Their economy ain't doing that great however - no industry. Germany is a traditional industrial power and the changes to the society have to happen through that sector. And in that respect service oriented culture isn't that important. Who cares if the salesman who hands you the keys to your new Porsche is snotty - you've bought a Porsche

[ozanzac 0]

British wise: Does the royal family have any real opinion delving into the parlament or is it just a symbol of times gone by.

What would the dissolvement of the Royal family mean for British politics, and it's neighbours on mainland Europe. And would commonwealth countries such as Australia and Canada still have the queen as their head of state, or would the British Prime Minister become head of state, or niether?

I suppose this question could be applied to any country with a monarch.

[mr burns 131]

I'm really surprised how well some people know what's going on in Germany.

And yes, we're fucked up if the politicians keep on doing nothing!

Quote[/b] ]A few examples: no online Pizza order+delivery in Germany. No online supermarket order+delivery in Germany. No cash back facilities in Germany.

Aehm... We already have that...  

Edit:

Quote[/b] ]no online Pizza order+delivery in Germany

This really made me laugh!

No, you don't have that.

Go to www.dominos.co.uk and see what I mean. There is nothing like that in Germany (I don't mean dominos, I mean ordering online).

Go to www.tesco.com and read about home delivery, again, NONE of the German supermarkets do that.

We do have that.

I have ordered my pizza online yet

But i won´t do again bacause the pizzamen are not used to it and it took way longer until they delivered it

I´m not sure but i think the bigger PizzaRestaurants (PizzaHut in Cologne) have better service too.

[GoOB 0]

British wise: Does the royal family have any real opinion delving into the parlament or is it just a symbol of times gone by.

I don't know about Britain specifically but in Sweden I think the king doesn't even have the right to cast a vote in the elections for goverment every four years. But that is not saying that the king doesn't have an influence over Swedish politicians and political parties. He has frequent talks with Swedish politicians and thus he can have some form of influence on them. Also I do think he is a chairman of the Swedish foreign ministry (or however you translate "Utrikesnämnden") But it is debatable if the king has any real influence over Swedish politics.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Just on head of state

The Monarch has the following powers:

  *The Monarch is the head of the law courts (but has not used this power in living memory)

  *The Monarch can disolve paliment but is suposed to call for elections imediately or within 90 days I think it was (but has not used this power in living memory)

  *The Monarch must sign all Laws created by Parliment (but has not failed to do so in living memory)

  *The Monarch is the head the millitary and all soldiers and members of millitary inteligence swear their oath of alegence to the Monarch (but no monarch has lead or generaled an army in living memory. All male members of the direct Royal family are expected to serve a term as an officer in one of the services and have done so only Edward out of the current crop failed to complete millitary service. Charles captained a Minesweeper and if we had gone to war he would have been expected to do his bit like any other sailor. Andrew served as a helicopter pilot in the Falklands War, he reportedly flew sheild missions during exocet attacks, How do you sheild a ship from an exocet with helicopter? Work it out.)

  *The Monarch is head of the Church of England equivalent to the pope.

  *The Monarch is visited and consulted on major policy or such policy as the Monarch sees fit; by members of the privy council. This includes all members of the government and senior members of the oposition and other parties. This is the major source of the Monarch's power. The monarch can say I dont like this bill it will divide my subjects, offend my dignity, be a constitutional issue (despite their being no written constitution) etc. At the very least the privy council must come back with a written report often it will make ammendments to legislation as a result. This iron fist in the velvet glove is rumoured to be used quite regularly.

I have probably missed some.

Kind Regards Walker

[Grizzlie 0]

Don't forget that Germany has really big problem with ex-DDR. They pumped there billions of DM and will pump more euros.

And this can drain even so big country.

Hmm, i would say today it is balanced industry and service founds of economy. There were guys Marx and Engels who claimed industry hegemony, and well - they were wrong (as ex-commustic country citizen i can say it from experience).

About 30/35 hours working week. I'm not sure if it is solution. Why? Shorter work->less salary->less consumption. There were once some rush in media about it, but i do not know what was the end of it. And less "inner" consumption means bigger need of export - where?

I'm afraid that soon it will be "all-over-the-world" problem...

[USSoldier11B 0]

Concerning the UK, I got the impression that economics has been a continuing dilemma for every party in power during the 20th century. I got the impression from my text that the best word to describe the British economy is stagnant a best. The Thatcher administration sought to take importance away from the consensus and sort of do her own thing in more of a trustee style of of government. Eventually leading to her losing popular support and forcing her to resign. Also that the market, and not the govenment shoud make major decisions concerning economics. Her sucessor John Major was unable to stabilize the pound and was plagued by controversial personal behavior within the Conservative Party.

Quote[/b] ]British wise: Does the royal family have any real opinion delving into the parlament or is it just a symbol of times gone by.

I got the impression that the monarchy does little more than confirm executive and Parliamentary decisions. These processes are merely for looks and that the monarchy has essentially no legislative power at all.

Quote[/b] ]Take your average African country. Excellent service. You'll have 20 bell-boys carrying your luggage to your room while trying to sell you 50 tons of goods.

Isn't this essentially what hurt the economy of Japan as well?

Quote[/b] ]You have no need for 100 cars or 500,000 tons of food per day. So infinite growth is impossible.

Funny, since Marx said that eventually the human population would eventually grow past all possible means of productions. Ironic indeed that it seems our technological advances have made it so our production methods produce more than we can use. Of course in the American tradition, we just adapt and buy more crap than we need to keep the economy pumping and invent new holidays to induce a consumer feeding frenzy. Even the trailer trash here usually owns 2+ cars. (Whether they run or not is another matter.)

[walker 0]

Hi USSoldier11B

Sounds like your profesor was a Margaret Thatcher Fan.

Throughout her period the UK economy declined and our defecit increased.

Unemployment reached an all time record and stayed there through out her time in power.

Inflation reached an all time record. (later to drop but that is easily done, raise inflation to record levels for the first 4 years out of a 5 year term and drop it as you come to election) Check inflation levels againts election dates.

She was responcible for higher taxes on the general population but reduced it on higher earners.

She reduced the power of unions. (possibly not a bad thing)

Manufacturing and Minning were decimated (possibly not a bad thing)

Free Health Opthalmic and Dental care was removed causing costs of health care to sky rocket as preventative measures were the first to go.

Before she was Primeminister she was health secretary she got rid of free school milk and reduced the the quality of school food and brought in private contractors to sell burgers and other none nutritional foods. Result rickets and other nutrition based illnesses have reapeared in children for the first time in 50 years. Other deseases such as obesity have also apeared.

You could argue that she inherited a bad economy. It was an economy at least half manufactured by her own party (check who was in power in the previous 30 years) And when somone comes in and promisses to fix things you expect to see them do it with in 2 terms at the end of her period of office the UK Economy was worse than it had been in when she came to power.

The real power in economics in the UK is the Chancelor not the primeminister as it is the the Chancelor who decides our budget. Ken Clark was a good Chancelor the current encumbant Gordon Brown is superb. He has lowered interest rates, Inflation Unemployment and defecit all in both terms in office.

When your looking at economics always look at the figures not the hype.

As to stagnant economy No.

We are in the longest sustained growth cycle in 50 years and we are bucking the world trend when your US economy under Clinton was rising so was ours. When the US economy went into decline under Bush ours continued to rise as it has done since the present govenment have been in power steady effective growth and of course the minute it starts to look like it will drop we can jump in to the Euro which has started to rise too.

Like I said read the figures.

Kind Regards Walker

[denoir 0]

Funny, since Marx said that eventually the human population would eventually grow past all possible means of productions. Ironic indeed that it seems our technological advances have made it so our production methods produce more than we can use.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Who knows perhaps in 100-200 years communism will become reality  

Quote[/b] ]Of course in the American tradition, we just adapt and buy more crap than we need to keep the economy pumping and invent new holidays to induce a consumer feeding frenzy. Even the trailer trash here usually owns 2+ cars.

Yepp, that's why I mentioned 'consumer culture' as a factor. USA will be facing these questions a bit later, but they'll come. What happens when we have fully automated production of everything we want? Can market economy handle it? What about basic human greed - if you can get anything you want (materialistically), then what will the driving force be? How do we distribute limited resources if we have no monetary system? etc etc

Utopian and hypothetical questions in the 19th century, but we're starting to get there. Just read the other day that a couple of weeks ago a SAAB car factory here in Sweden accidentaly started itself (during a weekend it was supposed to be shut off) and started producing cars. It made something like ten cars until it shut itself down again. No human involvement. When people came back after the weekend they found 10 cars crashed into each other at the end of the production line (apparently a human operator is supposed to drive the car away from the line).

There's more and more of such automation while we have a society that isn't in any way ready for such a change. All our principles are based around the concept of reward for human labour. And automating everything won't get you more money in the long run. On the contrary, if people don't work then they don't have the money to purchase products. But obviously less work for humans is good. So we're reaching a point where what's good from a market point of view and what's good for the society isn't the same.

Needless to say that there will be some very very radical changes in the long run.

[Grizzlie 0]

I think it would be sooner than in 100-200 years. By me, we can see beginnings of this now. What is stopping this process is mind inertion, we just used to think way we think now. But it can change in lets say 2-3 generations (50-60 years).

[USSoldier11B 0]

Quote[/b] ]The real power in economics in the UK is the Chancelor not the primeminister as it is the the Chancelor who decides our budget. Ken Clark was a good Chancelor the current encumbant Gordon Brown is superb.

Wouldn't this also be due to the fact that Blair has little experience in economic policy?

Quote[/b] ]Sounds like your profesor was a Margaret Thatcher Fan.

Ha, from what I gather he's a member of the Green Party with a mild case of turettes.

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Who knows perhaps in 100-200 years communism will become reality

Whoa now, you are giving me the creeps.

[walker 0]

Quote[/b] ]The real power in economics in the UK is the Chancelor not the primeminister as it is the the Chancelor who decides our budget. Ken Clark was a good Chancelor the current encumbant Gordon Brown is superb.

Wouldn't this also be due to the fact that Blair has little experience in economic policy?

Hi USSoldier11B

No it is very simple the Chancelor Decides the Budget in any party does not matter which. You could argue that the conservative economic failure during all but the last couple of their 18 years in power was not Margaret Thatchers fault; as she was the Primeminister not the Chancellor. I seem to remember it was Lawson and then Major then when the conservatives chucked her out and replaced her with Major as primeminister he placed Ken Clark as Chancelor.

So the Primeminister chooses the person to be Chancelor and that is the Primeminister's main economic power. They seek to influence the Chancelor in budgetory cabinet meetings but the do so in a commitee with all other cabinet ministers.

The present Chancelor also brought in a major change in the first year of office they made interest rate changes a power of the Bank of England (our Central Bank similar to your Federal Reserve I think it used to be Alan Greenspan in your case we have a comitee of seven people who do the same job) The reason for this was to stop Chancelors screwing with interest rates in the year before an election so that you got a surge in the economy a naughty little habbit they all got up to that screws up you economy.

It shows the quality of Brown as a person and of the whole Labour Party that they put the economic interests of the country before short term political gains available by doing a fix on the economy just before the election.

Kind Regards Walker