War against terror

[GoOB 0]

Oh yes, the jackass idea that this is a "cycle of violence". Of course. Another well worn cliche that doesn't distinguish between those that terrorize to annihilate versus those that try to stop them.

Perhaps targetting innocent people (willingly or unwillingly) isn't the right way to stop anyone from carrying out further terrorist attacks? Robbing people of their freedom of movement for the simple reason reason that some in their ethnical group perform horrible acts of terror, is in my opinion quite sick. Granted, I can't understand how it feels to be subjected to the threat of getting blown up each and every day, I still can't see that more violence (primarily affecting human beings that have done nothing wrong) can help you feeling safer.

If you wouldn't call this a "cycle of violence", or a situation fitting the quote "eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" I really don't know if even reading any further posts made by you is worth the effort.

I DO recognize the pain and suffering of the people living in Israel, it must be truly horrible to be a subject of terror on pretty much a daily basis. But what also makes me very angry is that the people of Israel seem to have problems realizing that the arab population is going through much of the same. And what's worse in this case, is that a proclaimed democracy is promoting this "cycle of violence", (perhaps we should come up with a better phrasing for that, so that you don't have to do anything more than read the sentence?) together with terrorist organizations.

No matter what end is, to stop terrorism or to prove a radical political point. The means for both parties is terrorism. And in none of the examples, does the end justify the means.

[theavonlady 2]

Oh yes, the jackass idea that this is a "cycle of violence". Of course. Another well worn cliche that doesn't distinguish between those that terrorize to annihilate versus those that try to stop them.

Perhaps targetting innocent people (willingly or unwillingly)

We don't target them willingly.

So, how do you "target" innocent people unwillingly?

Quote[/b] ]isn't the right way to stop anyone from carrying out further terrorist attacks?

Based on what expertise do you speak from?

Fact is that after the Passover bombing of the Park Hotel in Netanya, when Israel did a major reversal and went on a much fuller (but not complete) offensive, things got better.

Why don't you pull out some statistics and show us the contrary, since we here have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote[/b] ]Robbing people of their freedom of movement for the simple reason reason that some in their ethnical group perform horrible acts of terror, is in my opinion quite sick.

The governing authority of these people defacto declared war on Israel in September 2000.

We have every right to inhibit them in any which way until the hostilities cease.

When you're under attack for 5 years, call me. I'll sympathize with you.

Quote[/b] ]Granted, I can't understand how it feels to be subjected to the threat of getting blown up each and every day, I still can't see that more violence (primarily affecting human beings that have done nothing wrong) can help you feeling safer.

It statistically has worked. Sorry. Try making a connection between the fact that since Israel recently has removed several checkposts, tried opening the crossings, especially the large Karni crossing in Gaza, and retreated from Tulkarm, a stones throw away from where yesterday's Nentanya shopping mall bombing took place - things have only gotten worse than they were - not better.

Back to the drawing board for you!

Shall we weep for the poor Germans, who suffered being overrun by the Allies at the end of WWII?

Most of the people did nothing wrong. Only the soldiers.

Quote[/b] ]If you wouldn't call this a "cycle of violence", or a situation fitting the quote "eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" I really don't know if even reading any further posts made by you is worth the effort.

Please, don't bother.

Quote[/b] ]I DO recognize the pain and suffering of the people living in Israel, it must be truly horrible to be a subject of terror on pretty much a daily basis. But what also makes me very angry is that the people of Israel seem to have problems realizing that the arab population is going through much of the same.

They have brought it upon themselves. They could have had 90-95% of Gaza, Judea and Samaria years ago and billions of dollars and Euros put into their economy, schools and what not.

Quote[/b] ]And what's worse in this case, is that a proclaimed democracy is promoting this "cycle of violence", (perhaps we should come up with a better phrasing for that, so that you don't have to do anything more than read the sentence?) together with terrorist organizations.

The better term is "self defense". Apparently, only Israel is chastized for trying to protect itself.

Quote[/b] ]Abbas and the 'cycle of violence' in the Middle East

By Louis Rene Beres, For the Journal and Courier

The new Palestinian Authority "president" hadn't even been sworn in before he attacked the "cycle of violence" in the Middle East. An inaccuracy, to be sure, Mahmoud Abbas still knew exactly what he was saying. Creating a contrived symmetry between Arab terrorism and Israeli counter-terrorism, the expression conveniently erodes all differences between crime and punishment.

There is no "cycle of violence" in this conflict, only ritualistic murders of Jewish civilians followed by essential Israeli measures of self-defense. Imitating past practice, Hamas and its sister terror organizations always argue that they are merely "retaliating" for Israel's prior assassinations of lead terrorists, as if to say that: 1. a constituted democratic state and an outlawed terrorist gang are of equivalent legal stature; and, 2. terrorist leaders and defenseless civilians are equally permissible targets. Yet, even in the shadow world of Arab/Islamic terror, there are palpably meaningful differences between criminality and law enforcement.

There is no more egregious form of criminality than the premeditated murder of children. Under all existing standards of international law and morality, there is no cause -- no matter how just -- that can ever justify such killing. None. Ever. Even if the incessant Palestinian refrain of an Israeli "occupation" were not fabricated, and even if the persistent claims of "Palestinian land" made any historical or legal sense, there could never be any justification for intentionally blowing up Jewish children. The so-called "suicide bombers" who pack their explosives with nails, screws and razor blades dipped in rat poison are not "militants." They are monsters.

Terror groups have no right to "retaliate" under international law -- no more than does an individual criminal have such a right against police authorities under domestic law. These groups are illegal organizations that recognize no proper boundaries in the use of force. This should now be especially evident to President Bush, whose mistaken endorsement of a Palestinian state will only push Israel into conditions of existential insecurity and our own country into more terrorism. Palestinian terror groups are increasingly aligned with al-Qaida.

Following American and European endorsements of a Palestinian state, we have witnessed absolutely no identifiable Arab/Islamic movement toward peace with Israel. Instead, we observe an unambiguous escalation of threats to the Jewish state. Now there are even explicit Arab threats to unleash biological terrorism upon Israeli civilians. Recently the Lebanon-based Palestinian weekly, Al-Manar, published an article claiming that Palestinian "fighters" plan to deploy such "death-carrying devices near Israeli water resources; the Israeli beaches ... the markets and the residential centers." The plain objective, says the article, is "... to create a balance of horror in the equation of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict."

A "balance of horror." Is this the sort of peace that Israel can expect? The new Palestinian "president" will not use decisive force against Hamas and its kindred terror groups. All of these groups recognize only a "One State Solution." And the one state they have in mind is certainly not Israel. In size, by the way, Israel is less than half as big as Lake Michigan.

The Palestinian leadership displays a barely concealed delight in the mass murder of Jewish noncombatants. For these leaders, the issue is not about territory, but about religion. The conflict between Israelis and Palestinians is only superficially about land. Much more profoundly, it is about God, and about Arab unwillingness to allow a Jewish state, any Jewish state, in an Islamic region. Under no circumstances are the Palestinians willing to allow Jewish sovereignty over Muslims. It -- the state of Israel, not just the "occupied territories" -- is a "cancer" on the World of Islam. Doctrinally, it must be excised.

What is Israel to do? There is no cycle of violence in the region, only a continuous and faith-driven murder of Jews on their own land. Left unrecognized and unchallenged, the jihad or holy war against Israel will also leave America unprepared for carefully planned attacks by waves of suicide bombers. Far better that we should all immediately understand the differences between terrorists and "militants," the deeply religious basis of Arab/Islamic terrorism against Israel and the United States, and the foolishness of endless appeasement.

Beres is a political science professor at Purdue University.

[orson 0]

R.e the London bombers

As the police gather more evidence and follow the bombers trail things become more worrying

Good chance they will have been "primed" for weeks prior to the attacks .. most likely they were in a safe house .. this safe house may have been rigged with explosives ... during the transit to London they traveled in a vehicle that was rigged .

At any stage during the journey they will have been prepared to martyr themselves .

This is the mindset involved ....

The young muslim men who were recruited to perform the attacks in London came from not far from me ...

The locals who lived alongside them .. muslim and non-muslim alike were all shocked to learn that people they new and were friends with could perform such a deed

Now the situation has grown into one of deep mistrust ..

I predict riots on the streets of most of the predominantly asian communities ..allready the Enoch Powel brigade have started with attacks on mosques and individual muslims ...

These riots will be fueled by the same people who have been trying to engineer the situation for years ... its not neceserally the young men who are comiting the acts that are wholly to blame  , they are merely pawns .. its the cynical old bastards that do the recruiting who need to be caught and stopped . (same can be said for our governments)

In the shadow of the bombings , Londoners are returning to the streets , traveling on public transport to and from work ... but only because they have to .. the fear of loosing a job can overwhelm even fear of death for most .... but in truth the deed is done and seeds of doubt are sown , they dont need to attack London again  , just a mere phone call could bring any of our cities to a standstill .

I dread to think what the toll might be had the attacks been planned to the extent of the double bomb at Warrenpoint that claimed the lives of 18 soldiers back in 1979.

*edit .. oh sorry , i didnt realise you were all just blowing smoke up each others ass .

[EiZei 0]

Quote[/b] ]EiZei Posted on July 13 2005,11:54

Around and 'round we go..

Do you realize how many times you've said that?

Unfortunately, yes.

[Bernadotte 0]

They have brought it upon themselves. They could have had 90-95% of Gaza, Judea and Samaria years ago...

So Israel simply denied the Palestinians 5 - 10% of Gaza and the West Bank and then blamed the Palestinians for getting upset about it.  

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]When you're under attack for 5 years, call me. I'll sympathize with you.

Actually one can say that America and Israel have been "under attack" for much longer than that. America became a big target for terrorism in the 1980s, Israel for much longer than that.

So technically the US has been "under attack" for 20+ years...and Israel for much longer.

Just sayin'...

[Panda-PL- 0]

It's really no use talking.

AvonLady is an Israeli.

For her it's not "killing people" or "blowing up houses",

It's "self-defence people" and "collateral-damageing houses".

Also She seems to forget about barbarian acts commited by Israeli military... For Her they weren't really happening, or they were justified.

And Israel is crystal-clean.

She doesn't want to discuss it with You, You're only supposed to agree on everything and applogise for having any doubts, or remembering any unwanted facts (which You should immidieatly forget, otherwise You're an anti-semite or something...)

So better give up trashing the thread, or make another one - which is pointless in my oppinion. eh... the intransigence, the anger.

[theavonlady 2]

They have brought it upon themselves. They could have had 90-95% of Gaza, Judea and Samaria years ago...

So Israel simply denied the Palestinians 5 - 10% of Gaza and the West Bank and then blamed the Palestinians for getting upset about it.

It was never their's to begin with, nor was it never agreed upon with Israel in the Oslo Accords, which the PA is a signatore to, that they're guaranteed to get it.

@ July 13 2005,16:52)]It's really no use talking.

AvonLady is an Israeli.

OMG! AN ISRAELI! THEY CAN'T BE RIGHT!

Quote[/b] ]For her it's not "killing people" or "blowing up houses",

It's "self-defence people" and "collateral-damageing houses".

I hear that happens in war.

Please, go ahead and prove your point. Or is that the best you can come up with?

Quote[/b] ]Also She seems to forget about barbarian acts commited by Israeli military...

Please. Remind us.

You mean Israel's blowing up restaurants, shopping centers, buses, cafes, night clubs, universities and what not!

Barbarian indeed!

Quote[/b] ]For Her they weren't really happening, or they were justified.

We still don't know what you're pointing at but almost everything has been justified.

Quote[/b] ]And Israel is crystal-clean.

Nope. Nor were the allies in WWII. But I still hold them in high honor for the overall noble and excellent jon they did, destroying the world's most tyrannical regimes at that time.

Quote[/b] ]She doesn't want to discuss it with You, You're only supposed to agree on everything and applogise for having any doubts, or remembering any unwanted facts (which You should immidieatly forget, otherwise You're an anti-semite or something...)

Try backing up your words with facts. Or do you not want to discuss it?

Quote[/b] ]So better give up trashing the thread, or make another one - which is pointless in my oppinion. eh... the intransigence, the anger.

Bye bye!

[Sandman214155 0]

@ July 13 2005,15:52)]...

dude... looking at you're post and her post really shows that you based your "opinion" on your outlook on Israelis as a whole, not everyone thinks the same. You really have to know the majority AND minority before you start sturring up a war. now i'm not here to play refferee, i'm here to post my oppinions as is a right that we all hold. but not to the point that you're rattleing someones cage into a fight. Some people have very strong oppinions about issues and it is best to just yeild before posting you oppinion untill you can get their oppionion. I know you noticed that she was Isreali, you should have waited before postiong an opionion that directley involves someone. my point being, let the person you are judging judge themselves. and don't attack anyone

But back on topic...

One mans Terrorist is one mans Freedom Fighter. most people have to realize that they are the same, the Gaza strip is a VERY touchy subject, as you all can see. but this is my oppinion on the matter. The settelers had gone out of there territory to settle, they should know right off the bat its not their's. it is occupied territory.

The settleres should surrender, theres no use in fighting for something that was stolen.

If anyone has a differant oppinion thats fine, i don't want to step on anyones toes. but this is how its going to be: theres no changing my mind so don't even think to fight and wrestle me down. it will still be the same

[theavonlady 2]

One mans Terrorist is one mans Freedom Fighter.

Rhetoric? Or is it:

Quote[/b] ]most people have to realize that they are the same,

That's right. The Spanish and the British - they're terrorists.

Quote[/b] ]the Gaza strip is a VERY touchy subject, as you all can see. but this is my oppinion on the matter. The settelers had gone out of there territory to settle,

Why is it not possible to be Israel's?

Quote[/b] ]they should know right off the bat its not their's.

Whose is it?

Quote[/b] ]it is occupied territory.

It is captured territory, won in a war of Arab beliberancy agaist Israel's very existance.

Quote[/b] ]The settleres should surrender, theres no use in fighting for something that was stolen.

Many of the area's communities were legally purchased and settled by Jews in the 1930's. Others are built on what were once empty tracts of land. Jews have a history of living in Gaza going back to the middle ages and before that to biblical times.

Quote[/b] ]If anyone has a differant oppinion thats fine, i don't want to step on anyones toes. but this is how its going to be: theres no changing my mind so don't even think to fight and wrestle me down. it will still be the same

I believe facts can affect people's opinions. Or is everyone immune to facts?

[philcommando 0]

I am a man of science and feel both Jews and Arabs had a right to live in the Middle East. For centuries they had lived there under different masters - Rome, Ottoman Turks who embraced Islam but allow religious freedom and later the British Empire who although took sides with the arabs, religious freedom was a way of life despite the isolated short lived crazed killings now and then.

But once these arabs had their freedom to rule themselves, why do they not let the Jews live in peace? Look at the map, the arabs own practically most of the oil rich middle east and they can't even allow the Jews a home? And to start a war at the instigation of drug induced dreams of conversing with an unseen Almighty, losing even more territory and retreated with tails behind their butts? Worse still, whats with the daily calls to exterminate the Jews and the West? Isnt Hitler enough to wake us all up that genocide is never an answer so that one group may own the world?

But my words will be in vain and questions unanswered. My plea to each here is to help stop the profanity of the almighty by criminals who utter Allah Akbar with each massacre, so that they may not gain any more recruits.

The gentle Koran had been torned and rendered asunder by them as each lunatic mullah outdos the other to show their piety by influencing the deaths of innocents. No God would allow the extermination of his creations!

If so, this would have been a monothestic planet, but it isnt so and will never be no matter how much nuclear weapons the middle east hashish brained mullahs can buy.

[theavonlady 2]

The gentle Koran

What is this opinion based upon?

[Akira 0]

The gentle Koran

What is this opinion based upon?

I wouldn't be talking. The Old Testament isn't known for its fuzzy love and "everyone live together" attitude.

[SPQR 0]

See my sig...

And don't forget to spare the trees

[Panda-PL- 0]

Try writting "israeli war crimes" in google.

You'll get alot of crap, but then some real info from real organisations.

UN:

http://christianactionforisrael.org/un/condemns2.html

Amnesty International:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4580139.stm

Massacre at Kfar Kassem - Israel did admit this one. And even organised prelections at school.

Dawayma:

Quote[/b] ]The UN observer who inspected the scene, Major General Vagn Bennike, chief of staff of the U.N. Truce Supervision Organization (which investigated the scene the next day) said: "one story was repeated time after time: the bullet splintered door, the body sprawled across the threshold, indicating that the inhabitants had been forced by heavy fire to stay inside until their homes were blown up over them".

- so you have UN workers confirmations.

That proves me right. Right? On the pointboth Israel and Palestine are responsible at least to the same degree.

Anyway - Israel NEVER turned to UN for international peacekeeping mission. Why is that? Maybe You rather to handle things "your way"?

[edit] OK, forget it, I surrender. Going back to O2 and trying to forget what we were discussing. Really I have enought. You'll propably answer with another "yes, but..." anyway. And of course there is no hatered and no grudge from Israeli side.

And of course "self-defense", "collateral dammage", or You'll state that that's not important...

[theavonlady 2]

@ July 13 2005,20:14)]Try writting "israeli war crimes" in google.

You'll get alot of crap,

Wow! Google? You don't say! I'm quaking in my boots! The gods of the Internet have passed their judgement.

Quote[/b] ]but then some real info from real organisations.

UN:

http://christianactionforisrael.org/un/condemns2.html

You're a darling but you don't even know why yet.

Thank you.

[Panda-PL- 0]

Quote[/b] ]Arab and Islamic states voted in favor of their text, joined by countries including China and Cuba.

Hmm...

Really now I'm in a good mood. Thatnks.

Anyway as allways You concentrate at one point and forget the others... You didn't say You deny war crimes and crimes against humanity. Nor did You say that You condamn theese acts. You seem to avoid the subject of crimes made by Israeli side. Can You claim there weren't such? And if You cannot then do You admit there were.

[edit]Seriously speaking - I forgot that UN is not what it used to be. Or more likely what it SHOULD have been.

[Bernadotte 0]

They have brought it upon themselves. They could have had 90-95% of Gaza, Judea and Samaria years ago...

So Israel simply denied the Palestinians 5 - 10% of Gaza and the West Bank and then blamed the Palestinians for getting upset about it.

It was never their's to begin with, nor was it never agreed upon with Israel in the Oslo Accords, which the PA is a signatore to, that they're guaranteed to get it.

In fact the land where Israel established itself was 100% Palestinian to begin with until you came along, bought 5% of it and then declared a nation on 50% of it.

...Nice little business trick that was.

But instead of telling us your opinion of what is not theirs, please tell us what percentage of Gaza and the West Bank you actually consider to be theirs.

[Bernadotte 0]

Quote[/b] ] the Gaza strip is a VERY touchy subject, as you all can see. but this is my oppinion on the matter. The settelers had gone out of there territory to settle,

Why is it not possible to be Israel's?

...

I believe facts can affect people's opinions. Or is everyone immune to facts?

Then please tell us the facts.  Who does Gaza belong to?   ...And the West Bank too?  

Edit:  And occupying land does not make it yours.  If that were the case then Iraq would belong to its current occupiers and not the Iraqis.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]When you're under attack for 5 years, call me. I'll sympathize with you.

Actually one can say that America and Israel have been "under attack" for much longer than that. America became a big target for terrorism in the 1980s, Israel for much longer than that.

So technically the US has been "under attack" for 20+ years...and Israel for much longer.

Just sayin'...

America has dealt with terrorism at home and aboard for more than 50 years. Middle East terrorism is something that came around in it's own in the 1980s (it popped up in 70s).

1940s- The Werewolfs in Germany (killed some US officials); Viet Minh (killed two American diplomats); and Greek communists (killed a CBS correspondent).

1950s- Puerto Rican nationalists (they almost killed president Truman at the Blair House in 1950 but they were stopped. However, one police officer was killed and two others wounded. Four years later, they opened fire at the Capitol Building wounding some congressmen); and Cuban Communist guerillas (kidnapped 30 marines and then released them eventually).

1960s- Guatemalan rebels killed the US ambassador to that country; and Maxists kidnapped the US ambassador to Brazil.

1970s-Tupamaros (killed USAID adviser in Uruguay); Red Army Faction (killed and injured American service personnel in Germany); Black September organization (killed U.S. Ambassador to Sudan and other diplomats at the Saudi Embassy in Sudan); and People's Revolutionary Armed Forces in Mexico (kidnapped U.S. Consul General of Mexico).

I didn't know that the first US aircraft hijacked was by a Puerto Rican...

[philcommando 0]

In reply to Avon's query.

As each man faces the challenges of modern society and struggles to find an equalibrum between the spiritual and the secular, he can only disregard the acts of history as an event that happened at that age of that particular time and seeks comfort on the eon's intelligence of recorded experience in each's holy book. Times may change, situations may change, but the messages of hope and how people dealt with past situations holds a relevant lesson on how he should adapt it to confront such new challenges.

To put it simply, holy books are not charters of rights but are moral compass guides so that we may critically analyse to chart our directions. To use the holy book otherwise would be an attempt to recreate situations of the past so as to follow faithfully the path of ancients; an impossible and utterly stupid task for as each second pasts, the moment is gone and replaced by a new moment, and each new moment are all inconsistant changes.

The past is gone. Many had died caused by men's flawed interpretations of acts thousands of years ago when the earth and conditions were new. Mankind and religion today had found that equalibrium of spiritual and secular peace and had progessed beyond it, or are there still some who are trapped back in time?

As each stares in horror of the daily carnage wrought by men we see before us, we can only take comfort in the holy books that wrote of an almighty being who appeared before our ancestors and guided them, not to nivarna, but how best to live in peace with each other and oneself. Hope of a better gentle future is possible and the possibility of hope lies in our very own action. The peace of several billions in the world for the past 60 years( less the war mongering thousands) is a testament that holy books coupled with rational secularism can be gentle and peaceful.

No where can you find a verse in any holy book that claims God himself says 'go forth, kill whomever you detest espacially Israel and the West innocents, and you shall be given 72 virgins for eternity'. Any word that strays from such words will and have to be considered as interpretation of man, and not God's word.

And who determines and influences through the holy books? Dont blame the book, look for the guy who twist it to his advantage in the presumed absence of the almighty.

PS:- A whole load of crap it may be to some, but in truth, no matter how cynical or atheist one may be, each finds his own path to a being higher than himself in quiet moments when he rationalizes how from a speck of dust he comes into being.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]I didn't know that the first US aircraft hijacked was by a Puerto Rican...

First recorded one was by Peruvians, not Puerto Ricans.

And indeed I was talking about terrorism and its growth and aim at the US, which was the 1970s and 1980s.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]I didn't know that the first US aircraft hijacked was by a Puerto Rican...

First recorded one was by Peruvians, not Puerto Ricans.

And indeed I was talking about terrorism and its growth and aim at the US, which was the 1970s and 1980s.

The first recorded US aircraft hijacked.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/index.cfm?docid=5902

Very good list of terrorist "incidents" between 1961 and now.

[Sandman214155 0]

To let you better understand my opionion...

Quote[/b] ]

One mans Terrorist is one mans Freedom Fighter.

Rhetoric? Or is it:

Quote[/b] ]most people have to realize that they are the same,

That's right. The Spanish and the British - they're terrorists.

to others, yes, just ask OBL (Osama Bin Laden)

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]the Gaza strip is a VERY touchy subject, as you all can see. but this is my oppinion on the matter. The settelers had gone out of there territory to settle,

Why is it not possible to be Israel's?

because they just agreed to withdraw

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]they should know right off the bat its not their's.

Whose is it?

The rightful owners, in this case the Palistinians.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]it is occupied territory.

It is captured territory, won in a war of Arab beliberancy agaist Israel's very existance.

Thats right but when did the war end, its over. after WWII guess what country apeared back on the map, Poland. it was invaded twice but they still had to give up the territory to the rightful owners.

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]fighting for something that was stolen.

Many of the area's communities were legally purchased and settled by Jews in the 1930's. Others are built on what were once empty tracts of land. Jews have a history of living in Gaza going back to the middle ages and before that to biblical times.

by what country administering the sale?

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]If anyone has a differant oppinion thats fine, i don't want to step on anyones toes. but this is how its going to be: theres no changing my mind so don't even think to fight and wrestle me down. it will still be the same

I believe facts can affect people's opinions. Or is everyone immune to facts?

you're starting to get low, one more warning of caution before i return fire.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]I didn't know that the first US aircraft hijacked was by a Puerto Rican...

First recorded one was by Peruvians, not Puerto Ricans.

And indeed I was talking about terrorism and its growth and aim at the US, which was the 1970s and 1980s.

The first recorded US aircraft hijacked.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/index.cfm?docid=5902

Very good list of terrorist "incidents" between 1961 and now.

Indeed. First, "US aircraft hijacked."

Quote[/b] ]The first recorded hijacking occurred in May 1930, when Peruvian revolutionaries seized a Pan American mail plane with the aim of dropping propaganda leaflets over Lima. No hijackings were then recorded until 1947. Between that year and 1958, 23 hijackings were reported, mostly committed by eastern Europeans seeking political asylum. The world's first fatal hijacking took place in July 1947 when three Romanians killed an aircrew member.

Are you seriously arguing with me over commercial aviation matters?

EDIT:

Quote[/b] ]The first recorded aircraft hijack was on February 21, 1931, in Arequipa, Peru. Byron Rickards flying a Ford Tri-motor was approached on the ground by armed revolutionaries. He refused to fly them anywhere and after a ten day stand-off Rickards was informed that the revolution was successful and he could go in return for giving one of their number a lift to Lima.

More info. Hilarious but a hijacking in any case.