theavonlady 2 Posted June 29, 2004 (Duke_of_Ray @ June 29 2004,07:02) said: Avon your my kind of gal! When do you get off work? After I finish polishing my husband's leather Magnum shoulder holster. Why do you ask? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted June 29, 2004 (denoir @ June 28 2004,23:39) said: Avon: [b said: Quote[/b] ]As far as I'm concerned, it's not a setback just to Bush - it's a setback to the entire country. Yeah, we should be going all the way: summary execution, torture chambers and concentration camps  What cases of summary execution are you referring to? I agree with the use of torture under a limited set of circumstances and in limited methods. If you're comparing anything the US has to Majdonik, Dachau or Birkenau, I suggest you visit those places first and then explain to us how you could have the gall to make such comparisons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo 29 Posted June 29, 2004 Let's keep it calm and civil please, or nobody is invited to the wedding Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted June 29, 2004 To all you summer beach bums, forget about the sharks! [b said: Quote[/b] ]FBI Warns Home-Made Mines May Lurk in U.S. Waters[/b]Mon Jun 28, 2004 03:51 PM ET By Caroline Drees, Security Correspondent WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Home-made bombs and mines hidden in inner tubes or other harmless-looking flotsam may be bobbing in U.S. waters, a confidential FBI bulletin warned shortly before new anti-terror shipping laws take effect. The FBI report, issued last Wednesday and titled "Potential Indicators of Floating Improvised Explosive Devices or Terrorist Improvised Mines" said the agency knew of no specific planned attack, an FBI official told Reuters on Monday. But he said the bulletin sought to warn local, state and federal authorities that such attacks could take place. "This is information that is disseminated on a weekly basis in order to provide law enforcement with current, relevant terrorism information," the official said. "This particular one dealt with the potential indicators of floating improvised explosive devices." U.S. officials have repeatedly voiced concerns about possible seaborne attacks since the bombings of the U.S. warship Cole in 2000 and the French tanker Limburg in 2002 in Yemen. Fears of militant activity in the United States have increased in the run-up to elections in November. The warning about possible home-made explosives in suspicious floating objects came about a week before new UN security codes designed to avert maritime terrorist attacks come into force on July 1. The FBI official said he did not know if the bulletin was specifically timed to heighten awareness before the codes take effect. The United States has vowed to enforce compliance with the strict new regulations. Its efforts are seen a global litmus test of the new codes' effectiveness. The U.N.'s new International Ship and Port Facility Security code and the related U.S. Maritime Transportation Security Act -- which ensures U.S. compliance with the U.N. regulations -- are considered the most comprehensive security measures to be imposed on the maritime industry since World War II. Beginning July 1, all ships must obtain special security certificates which meet new International Maritime Organization standards. The new code also stipulates that ports visited in the complex web of trade need to be security certified, with vessels required to keep a log of the last 10 ports they visit. Some industry experts have expressed concern that the United States' pledge to force compliance could slow or harm world trade. The Coast Guard says it will board every ship on its first entry to the United States after July 1 to check compliance with the new rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winters 1 Posted June 29, 2004 (Akira @ June 28 2004,16:26) said: [b said: Quote[/b] ]BREAKING NEWSThe United States has formally resumed diplomatic ties with Libya after a 24-year break, the State Department says. Details soon. They should lift the sanctions against Cuba. The missles are gone and we could take over the island in less than a day. Sheeesh, just lift them already, i wanna smoke some Cubans (cigars) Â sorry about going kinda OT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 1, 2004 This is pathetic! Call in the National Geographic Society! [b said: Quote[/b] ]Numerous flaws found in military maps2 hours, 11 minutes ago By Michael Kilian Washington Bureau The secretive National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency acknowledged Wednesday that it has made numerous mistakes in topographical maps issued to U.S. troops in Afghanistan since 2002. The maps cover Afghanistan and portions of Pakistan, and they are being used by ground troops as well as combat commanders and engineers. Fighting has continued in Afghanistan and some border areas of Pakistan as U.S. forces press their search for Osama bin Laden and other Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders. The troops also are contending with an increasingly violent insurgency that has made travel in Afghanistan extremely dangerous. Agency officials said they have received no reports from the military that the errors have jeopardized operations. The mapping mistakes involved omitting place names as well as putting place names in the wrong locations, according to agency spokesman Howard Cohen. There were also some place-name errors in the computerized Geographic Names Data Base maintained by the aerial intelligence-gathering agency, formerly known as the National Imagery and Mapping Agency. The inaccuracies in the database led to the misinformation being printed on the maps, Cohen said. The same agency also was involved in the accidental bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, capital of the former Yugoslavia, by a high-flying U.S. B-2 stealth bomber during the 1999 Kosovo war. Three Chinese civilians were killed and more than 20 others injured in that bombing, and U.S.-Chinese relations were badly strained for months. Then-Deputy Secretary of State Susan Shirk attributed that accident to "a bunch of serious errors and mistakes." It later was revealed that targeting was predicated on two out-of-date Yugoslavian maps and a 1997 American map. None of the three showed the location of the Chinese Embassy, which had moved to the site in 1996. As for the latest snafu, "I can't tell you how the errors were discovered, but it happened while agency mapmakers were making new maps for one of our customers," Cohen said. David Burpee, another agency spokesman, said military leaders have been notified, as well as others who use the agency's maps. Cohen said the agency has begun producing corrected maps. The first of these will be available within a few weeks, but it will take longer to replace all the maps in use. It will take even longer to redo the database, he said. Capt. Bruce Frame, spokesman for the U.S. Central Command in Afghanistan and Iraq (news - web sites), said the troops have not been depending solely on the erroneous maps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 1, 2004 <span style='color:blue'>Who can take a sunrise Sprinkle it in dew Cover it in chocolate and a miracle or two? The candyman The candyman can The candyman can cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good</span> [b said: Quote[/b] ]WTC Bomb Leader Making Himself SickThursday, July 01, 2004 NEW YORK — The man accused of masterminding the first World Trade Center bombing (search) and plotting to blow up New York City landmarks is deliberately trying to damage his own health so his followers will retaliate against the United States, according to a federal prosecutor. Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman (search), who is currently serving a life sentence, has reportedly stopped taking his insulin medicine and started eating <span style='color:green'>M</span><span style='color:red'>&</span><span style='color:blue'>M</span><span style='color:orange'>s</span> to make his diabetes worse. The blind cleric has apparently been upset about not getting the specific brand of tea he likes in prison. The new information has come out in the trial of his former defense attorney, Lynne Stewart (search), who is currently charged with aiding terrorism by passing dangerous notes from her client to his followers. She and her two co-defendants have pleaded not guilty. U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, who was the prosecutor in Abdel-Rahman’s 1995 trial, testified he believed for some time that the sheik “was going to play with his medical condition†because he knew the U.S. government would be blamed if something happened to him. Abdel-Rahman is a highly regarded spiritual leader among his militant followers, and there is still concern that should his health decline, those followers would retaliate against the United States. In 1997, his supporters vowed to kill then-President Bill Clinton and the sheik’s trial judge if Abdel-Rahman became ill while in prison. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
walker 0 Posted July 2, 2004 Hi all Timely reminder to us all to be extra vigilant this 4th of July. This warning comes from the Head of the FBI and unlike Ashcroft's 'WOLF' Crying I would take this warning seriously. Remember that since the invasion of Iraq Al Qaida terrorism has gone up to one a month from the once every six months it was post 9/11. [b said: Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON - A constant stream of intelligence indicating that al-Qaida wants to strike the United States this summer or fall has led federal officials to urge increased vigilance during the Independence Day weekend, but there is no specific threat of an attack timed to the holiday. In a bulletin sent to law enforcement agencies nationwide Thursday, the FBI (news - web sites) said police should step up patrols and watch for signs of terrorist activity, including surveillance of potential targets. The FBI also listed advice on how to spot possible suicide bombers. "We know the U.S. homeland remains a top al-Qaida target," the FBI said in the bulletin, sent weekly to 18,000 state and local law enforcement agencies. Fourth of July celebrations are among the symbolic events that U.S. officials say could present an inviting target to al-Qaida, which intelligence reports indicate will attempt an attack during summer or fall. An attack also could be timed to coincide with the national political conventions or the November elections, plus the Olympics in August in Athens, Greece. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...._threatThey have not hit for a while so I suspect they have been saving it up for a 4th of July Spectacular. Let us not let them turn the celebrations into a mourning. Everyone be careful and alert tell the authorites about anything suspicious. Kind Regards Walker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quicksand 0 Posted July 2, 2004 With the risk of having to eat my words later I don`t think Al-Queda would attack USA on the 4th of July.The succes of a terrorist attack especially on USA soil counts on the fact of getting the authorities off-guard. It doesn`t mather if it`s a symbolic day or just a regular one, the ability of Al-Queda to strike USA after various claims of destabilising the capabilities of the organisation is a clear enough message on it`s own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
walker 0 Posted July 2, 2004 (quicKsanD @ July 02 2004,20:32) said: With the risk of having to eat my words later I don`t think Al-Queda would attack USA on the 4th of July.The succes of a terrorist attack especially on USA soil counts on the fact of getting the authorities off-guard. Hi quicKsanD That is why it is important to be extra vigilant this 4th of July precisely because normaly attentive people like yourself quicKsanD seem so relaxed. That is why the FBI gave the warning. Ignore that pillock Ashcroft's 'WOLF!' cries But take special note of this 4th of July warning from the FBI it is serious. Worried Walker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted July 2, 2004 Uh oh, so this could get you into seriouse trouble, right ? Plopp ! *sounds of 1000 guns ripped from the holsters* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joltan 0 Posted July 2, 2004 (theavonlady @ July 01 2004,17:55) said: This is pathetic! Call in the National Geographic Society! Numerous flaws found in military maps Well, what do you expect? With places having 5 names in 3 local dialects, in addition to the lack for ground truth due to a complete breakdown of the afghan mapping agency in the aftermath of the russian invasion and the following civil war. You may see the villages and huts from your satellite - but who tells you what's the name of the village, if those huts belong to a neighbouring community or are actually a seperate entity? That's just day to day geography - and you certainly don't have to go to afghanistan to encounter these problems. Of course not having proper possibilities to survey a country (and to keep the data up to date) due a civil war and later the isloation of the country they may in some cases even be forced to use data up to a hundred years old. And who knows what errors those may contain... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 3, 2004 (joltan @ July 02 2004,21:50) said: (theavonlady @ July 01 2004,17:55) said: This is pathetic! Call in the National Geographic Society! Numerous flaws found in military maps Well, what do you expect? Military intelligence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 3, 2004 (walker @ July 02 2004,20:38) said: Timely reminder to us all to be extra vigilant this 4th of July. This warning comes from the Head of the FBI and unlike Ashcroft's 'WOLF' Crying I would take this warning seriously. At least they're polite. [b said: Quote[/b] ]'Qaeda-Linked' Group Renews Threat to Attack EuropeFri Jul 2,11:58 AM ET By Ghaida Ghantous DUBAI (Reuters) - Muslim militants claiming links to al Qaeda vowed new attacks on Europe once a "truce" offered by Osama bin Laden expires in two weeks, newspapers said on Friday. Governments and analysts played down the threat, noting the group in question had made unfounded claims before. French President Jacques Chirac said he took any such report seriously but that little could be done to improve already tight security. But a U.S. intelligence official said the al Qaeda deadline could not be ignored, regardless of the authenticity of the purported statement by the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades. "We can't confirm that the Abu Hafs Brigade speaks authoritatively for al Qaeda, but absent that, it is fair to say that there would be some concern about the expiration of this deadline which could potentially presage other attacks," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. Al Qaeda leader bin Laden, in an audiotape on April 15, gave European states three months to pull troops out of Afghanistan, Iraq and other Muslim countries or face new attacks like the Madrid train bombings that killed 191 people on March 11. European security sources viewed that offer as a propaganda ploy to help justify future attacks. But a senior intelligence official told Reuters this week there was no indication of plans for any attack immediately after the ultimatum expires. "To the European people ... you only have a few more days to accept bin Laden's truce or you will only have yourselves to blame," read the Abu Hafs statement, referring to bin Laden's ultimatum which ends in mid-July. "The race now is between you, time and European governments which have refused to stop their attacks against Muslims. "So do not blame us for what will happen and we apologize to you in advance if you are among those killed." THREAT PLAYED DOWN Excerpts of the Abu Hafs statement were published by two London-based Arabic newspapers, Asharq al-Awsat and al-Hayat. Al-Hayat said the letter arrived by e-mail dated July 1. It is not clear how close the Abu Hafs group is to bin Laden himself. "Muslims in the West should depart to Muslim states if they can," the group said. "Those who cannot should take precautions and live in Muslim areas, have enough food to last a month." Germany said it did not consider the threat particularly credible. An interior ministry spokesman noted the Abu Hafs group claimed responsibility for last year's power cuts in New York that turned out to be caused by a technical failure. A British security source also said the threat was not credible: "They claimed the Madrid bombings and it clearly wasn't them ... They're just repeating the same old bile." "Of course we take any type of terrorist threat on European territory very seriously," Chirac told a joint news conference in Paris with Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi. But asked whether France would increase security, he said: "We are doing the absolute maximum in this area." Berlusconi echoed his comments. In Spain, whose new government pulled troops out of Iraq after the March 11 bombings, an interior ministry spokeswoman said: "In no case have communiques influenced the government's decisions and therefore they will not influence it now." David Claridge, managing director of Janusian Security Risk Management in London, said he was skeptical about whether the group was part of al Qaeda, which he said did not typically give advance threats to commit attacks on or around specific dates. But he added: "It's clearly concerning that any organization is making threats of that sort of nature. An ultimatum was made, the ultimatum has clearly not been adhered to, so I would expect that this would push the threat level up." (Additional reporting by Tom Perry in Cairo, Philip Blenkinsop, Mark Trevelyan in Berlin and Michael Holden in London) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billybob2002 0 Posted July 8, 2004 <a href="http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040706-125552-4477r.htm " target='_blank'>http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040706-125552-4477r.htm </a> [b said: Quote[/b] ]Freed Gitmo detainees back in rebel ranks, officials say By Shaun Waterman UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL Several detainees released by the U.S. military from the detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have rejoined their former comrades-in-arms and taken part in fresh attacks on American troops, according to Defense Department officials and a senior Republican lawmaker. "We've already had instances where we know that people who have been released from our detention have gone back and have become combatants again," said Rep. Porter J. Goss, Florida Republican, chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. "It's the military Willie Horton," he said, referring to the murderer who absconded on a furlough granted by then-Gov. Michael S. Dukakis of Massachusetts in 1987. The freed Horton pistol-whipped a Maryland man and raped his fiancee, and the case became an issue when Mr. Dukakis, a Democrat, ran for president in 1988. "I do in fact have specific cases," Mr. Goss said in an interview. But when pressed for further details, he declined to say more. A Defense official independently confirmed that several such cases had involved Afghans released from Guantanamo. "At least five detainees released from Guantanamo have returned to the [Afghan] battlefield," the defense official said on the condition of anonymity. When asked how U.S. authorities could know, the official declined to comment. "That gets into intel stuff. I can't go there," the official said. The case of the released detainees threatens to become a political issue as Congress returns in the aftermath of June's U.S. Supreme Court ruling that the Guantanamo Bay detainees have a right to file writs of habeas corpus. According to Mark Jacobson, a former senior official at the Pentagon who helped put together the handling practices for detainees at Guantanamo, every detainee is fingerprinted and photographed. "We build up pretty extensive biometrics on these guys," he said. "There are a lot of different ways we could know that someone we'd captured or killed had already been in our custody." The five known individuals represent just under 10 percent of the 57 Afghans released from Guantanamo, leaving open the possibility that more among the other 52 might also be fighting U.S.-led forces. "I would hope our intel is good enough that we'd know if someone we'd released was back on the battlefield," said Mr. Jacobson, now a visiting scholar at the University of Michigan. At least one of the five men known to have rejoined the fight after being released appears to have been a Taliban field commander. Press reports from Afghanistan in April said that Mullah Shahzada, who was released from Guantanamo in spring last year, had been captured or killed. Shahzada may have become active again almost immediately after his release. In May 2003, the New York Times interviewed in Quetta, Pakistan, a "former fighter" who went by the name "Mullah Shahzada." The report did not mention whether he had been detained in Guantanamo. Mr. Jacobson said that person could be the same "Mullah Shahzada," but cautioned about the common use of aliases among Taliban guerrillas. Until recently, the U.S. military made decisions about who should be released from Guantanamo on a case-by-case basis that Mr. Jacobson described as "pretty meticulous." "Even if five got through," he said, "that's still an 'A' grade." The Defense official also defended the review process. "It's very thorough, but it's not foolproof," he said. "We err on the side of caution, but mistakes are going to be made." The defense official said that the process was complicated by Afghanistan's lack of system of personal-identity cards or other definitive records. "These people don't have driver's licenses," he said. "They don't even have birth certificates. Some of them are trained in deception and counter-interrogation techniques. "One guy had 13 aliases." Earlier this year, facing a Supreme Court challenge to the legality of the Guantanamo detentions, the Pentagon began work on a more structured review process for detainees, under which an annual hearing would consider whether they still posed a threat. The initial plans for the new system were unveiled June 23 by Navy Secretary Gordon England. Mr. England declined to comment on whether detainees released under the old, case-by-case review system had taken up arms again, but said it was one pitfall the new process he was in charge of was designed to avoid. "Obviously, we don't want to release someone who's going to come back and attack America or our allies," he said in an interview. But the Supreme Court ruling last week and the prospect that the Pentagon will now face an avalanche of litigation from the 500-plus detainees still held at Guantanamo have left plans for the new system in limbo. Mr. England said the Pentagon "is still reviewing the [supreme Court] decision." "We just don't know what we're going to do yet," he said. The defense official said that the Pentagon might use the new review process anyway for two reasons. First, the military hopes it will reduce the number of detainees before the U.S. government begins the arduous process of preparing to defend against habeas corpus writs. And second, the Pentagon wants to show the courts that some due process is being granted at Guantanamo. Mr. Jacobson said that it would have been wiser to treat the detainees captured in Afghanistan as prisoners of war "straight off the bat," rather than leaving them in the legally murky situation of unlawful combatants. "That way," he pointed out, "the only question is 'When is the conflict over?' The courts don't get involved." Mr. Goss said that he would hold intelligence committee hearings on detention issues later this month. *shakes head* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted July 8, 2004 What about the 52 that were jailed without any rights for several years? Yeah, we should just jail everybody to be on the safe side. Guilty until proven innocent. Is that what you are advocating billybob? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 8, 2004 (denoir @ July 08 2004,05:11) said: What about the 52 that were jailed without any rights for several years?Yeah, we should just jail everybody to be on the safe side. Guilty until proven innocent. Is that what you are advocating billybob? 52=EVERYBODY? As far as illegal combatant enemies - as long as it takes, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoweryBaker 0 Posted July 8, 2004 I saw a video on the news of an american hummer getting hit by an rpg in iraq. the hummer was cruising pretty fast, it was one of those hummers with the thin leather top on the back of it and maybe held like eight people in the back and the three up front. Anyhow, it was cruising really fast and this cameraman got the whole thing, it got hit by an rpg and the dust was tremendous, something you never see in ofp. Like when a round hits something. There is a little dust i know but this dust was tremendous. Anyhow, i got to thinking, what kind of guy would order this man to drive a hummer through the city like that with guerillas about. I wouldn't even drive an apc through the city like that. They need a more heavily armed apc. Something like a tank. Either that or maybe fly the supplies and men around. I know its tough when you're operating right there in the city to not move with nothing less than an hummer that fits into the tight spaces of where the raids take place. The helis in somalia got hit by rpg and they probably remember that. I wonder if those combat M113s can take an rpg round.... just so i can imagine what mission that guy in the hummer was on and for his sake reenact it the right way. God rest his soul. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted July 8, 2004 (theavonlady @ July 08 2004,07:01) said: (denoir @ July 08 2004,05:11) said: What about the 52 that were jailed without any rights for several years?Yeah, we should just jail everybody to be on the safe side. Guilty until proven innocent. Is that what you are advocating billybob? 52=EVERYBODY? 57=everybody, 52 = innocents, according to the article. [b said: Quote[/b] ]As far as illegal combatant enemies - as long as it takes, IMO. Yeah, another heap of TBA bullshit. 90% of those picked up were civilians that had the bad luck of running into US soldiers that were in a sadistic mood. And in Iraq, it was the same thing all over again.. And a very fine start of a Stalinistic society. Why, Bush must be very proud: a little gulag of his own. And his own apparatchniks like Avon who think that suspected enemies of the state should be arrested without giving them a lawyer and without charging them with a crime. Guilty until proven innocent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 8, 2004 (denoir @ July 08 2004,10:04) said: And a very fine start of a Stalinistic society. Why, Bush must be very proud: a little gulag of his own. And his own apparatchniks like Avon who think that suspected enemies of the state should be arrested without giving them a lawyer and without charging them with a crime. More rabid ravings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr_rOk 0 Posted July 8, 2004 [b said: Quote[/b] ]As far as illegal combatant enemies - as long as it takes, IMO. @ Avon There's always been a very thin (relative)line between illegal combatants and let's say freedom fighters or terrorists. The days of Hagana(i think i remember the name correctly)being an example. (just one of many) And of course the infamous fact that the winner writes history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted July 8, 2004 I must say I am realy scared of what might happen during the Olympics or the 2006 football World Cup. No doubt that security, as tight as it may be, has no chance to catch a terorist during such a monster event! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted July 8, 2004 (theavonlady @ July 08 2004,11:18) said: (denoir @ July 08 2004,10:04) said: And a very fine start of a Stalinistic society. Why, Bush must be very proud: a little gulag of his own. And his own apparatchniks like Avon who think that suspected enemies of the state should be arrested without giving them a lawyer and without charging them with a crime. More rabid ravings. Out of arguments Avon? You're the one suggesting that people should be assumed to be guilty before proven innocent. Do you understand the simple fact that those in Guatanamo bay have not been charged with anything. No evidence has been provided against them. And you are suggesting that it's a good principle. So, I'm assuming that you would consistently advocate it in general. Or do you think that Afghans and Arabs are not worthy of a fair judicial process? I have a very strong feeling that you do (which of course you won't admit to because you'd be banned for racism) If not, then you're advocating that the police can arrest people without any motivation and that they can be held in cages for years without being charget with a crime and with no access to lawyers. Sounds to me that you're a great fan of Stalin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 8, 2004 (mr_rOk @ July 08 2004,12:37) said: @ AvonThere's always been a very thin (relative)line between illegal combatants and let's say freedom fighters or terrorists. So be it. In fact, there may be no line at all. [b said: Quote[/b] ]The days of Hagana(i think i remember the name correctly)being an example. (just one of many) And of course the infamous fact that the winner writes history. History can be distorted by friend or foe a day after it's made or centuries later. Who the winner is is also important in determining how accurate history will be protrayed for future generations to learn from. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 8, 2004 (denoir @ July 08 2004,13:11) said: (theavonlady @ July 08 2004,11:18) said: (denoir @ July 08 2004,10:04) said: And a very fine start of a Stalinistic society. Why, Bush must be very proud: a little gulag of his own. And his own apparatchniks like Avon who think that suspected enemies of the state should be arrested without giving them a lawyer and without charging them with a crime. More rabid ravings. Out of arguments Avon? This coming from someone calling me an apparatchnik and who has halucinations of gulag systems and the Stalinization of the US. I don't bother with you once you've reached bottom and keep digging. Enjoy your pit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites