The Iraq Thread 2

[Longinius 1]

"Should the US troops get involved if they see cops chasing someone? I think they shouldn't get mixed in the Iraqi police affairs unless they're asked to."

As long as they are an occupying force, I think they have to. I could be wrong though.

[DracoPaladore 0]

I know, that's why I understand they could have opened fire in the first seconds of what htey saw (you know by not identifying targets as usual) but after that, it's pure hatred or fear or both running through their veins.  Maybe terrible training?

The killing of the third officer in the back of the vehicle was a mistake. However, when the other two got out and raised their arms, surrendering, it was murder to shoot one in the eye. Especially after the second had his badge in the air and flashing it at police officers. Assault on the second as he was being beaten by the US soldiers.

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/08/13/sprj.irq.main/index.html

Quote[/b] ]This latest death brings to 268 the total number of U.S. troops killed since the Iraq war began -- 175 hostile, 93 non-hostile. The fatality is the 60th incurred by U.S. forces in combat in Iraq since President Bush declared an end to major fighting May 1.

[bn880 5]

Cool: Military Families Speak Out

EDIT: ahh and http://www.bringthemhomenow.com/

[bn880 5]

Should the US troops get involved if they see cops chasing someone? I think they shouldn't get mixed in the Iraqi police affairs unless they're asked to.

I think they should and actually have to by some convention Denoir will surely post soon. Well they are hte occupying force and the Police is something they destroyed, so now they need to train or support some Police as they are incapable of holding order.

It's just how they do it that's the problem.

[Schoeler 0]

Cool: Military Families Speak Out

EDIT: ahh and  http://www.bringthemhomenow.com/

Not cool.

Sure bring them home now, admit the war was all a big mistake (even if it wasn't it will be after that) and just say:

"Oops! we goofed, sorry Iraqi people, your country is in chaos thanks to us, and now that we are pulling out the real atrocities can begin, but hey, its just gotten too costly and messy for us cushy-lifestyle, pushbutton, soft, self-serving Americans and we don' t want to play anymore, so we are taking our ball and going home. Sorry about all the problems we've caused you, but we only care about ourselves and our self-gratifying, pseudo-intellectual liberal agenda, so really you'll just have to sort our mess out for us, we don't want to pay for it anymore. I mean really, hard work? Doing the right thing? Accepting responsibility for what we've done? Following through on promises we've made? What are you talking about? We can't be bothered with that. We simply want to return to ou reality TV and our high fat diets and not worry about anyone black or brown, or even anyone outside of our borders. Oh and by the way, send more radical terrorists to kill us in massive numbers so we have something interesting to watch on MSNBC and to talk about at work. This way we can justify our enormous defense budget and have fun blowing the hell out of things with impersonal, long-distance high tech cruise missiles."

Do you really think that bringing the troops home now is the right thing to do? Have you even thought this whole thing through?

You accuse the U.S. of being self-serving, going into Iraq to serve out own interests, and then you show support for an action that would ultimately show that to be just the case?

If we pull out now, then everything the critics said about us as a people, as a culture, as a government will be true. I can't side with or respect that. I served six years in the military, I knew what I was getting into when I signed up and I accepted those risks. So did the current members of our military. Now its time for them to shut the hell up and do their job, not for our government, but for the sake of the Iraqi people. We can't just go over there and mess up those people's whole world and then bail when its no fun anymore.

[denoir 0]

The US troops should certainly stay until Iraq is fixed or until they're replaced by a more competent UN led force.

That's however not what bn880 is talking about. The fact that the troops have not been rotated is a failure of the post-war plan. It's not about the Iraqis, but about the US troops there. They need to get rotated. The longer they stay in Iraq, the more frustrated they'll be. Frustrated people with guns = bad.

[bn880 5]

Hehhe, there is more to "cool" than yes bring them home.  It goes back to what was being said about support our troops and many other issues on these threads in the past.  That's what's cool, these people have some sense in them and are getting a voice.

No one voice makes an action here, it can only balance out the bickering of TBA and FSpilots.  If you have balance you have better decision making.

Pull em out now?  Uhh, not exactly, but where are the international peacekeepers. And what Denoir says too.......

[Schoeler 0]

I agree, the troops need to be rotated, and international peace keepers would be nice, but who do we rotate them with, and who do we convince in the international community to come in and help us out?

Clinton and TBA depleted the manpower in the American military, its going to be very difficult shuffling the forces around the globe to rotate in and out of Iraq and still maintain our readiness.

TBA decided to basically go it alone in Iraq, and won't let anyone else in on the decision-making process, so how are we to convince other governments to share the burden and the costs in the mess we made?

[ran 0]

TBA decided to basically go it alone in Iraq, and won't let anyone else in on the decision-making process, so how are we to convince other governments to share the burden and the costs in the mess we made?

big international diplomatic concessions ? that's one of the only solutions I see , maybe signing a few international treaties the administration didn't ratify at first would make it , but TBA must be too arrogant to do that

[Schoeler 0]

Way too arrogant. We made our bed, now its time to lie in it no matter how ugly or expensive it gets. We have an obligation and a responsibility to uphold our committment to the Iraqi people now. Time to suck it up and put in the hard work and money.

Maybe next time, our stupid-assed electorate will get its shit together and actually vote for the politician best for the job instead of the guy who seems the coolest, best looking, or has the most money to spend. Dumbasses! This is what you get when you elect people who don't represent you, but the special interests, and suckered you into giving them your vote by spending enough money on glitzy TV ads.

[bn880 5]

See now you're talking business.

So, the situation sucks, people continue to die on both sides... what a mess.

[bucket man 2]

Have U.S casualties almost stopped or is it so normal thing that it doesnt get to the news anymore?

[bn880 5]

No they haven't stopped at all, but they do seem to get reported in Canada and in the US. (not extremely well but still)

[EiZei 0]

They need to get rotated. The longer they stay in Iraq, the more frustrated they'll be. Frustrated people with guns = bad.

Vietnam anyone?

[ran 0]

Way too arrogant.  We made our bed, now its time to lie in it no matter how ugly or expensive it gets.  We have an obligation and a responsibility to uphold our committment to the Iraqi people now.  Time to suck it up and put in the hard work and money.

Maybe next time, our stupid-assed electorate will get its shit together and actually vote for the politician best for the job instead of the guy who seems the coolest, best looking, or has the most money to spend.  Dumbasses!  This is what you get when you elect people who don't represent you, but the special interests, and suckered you into giving them your vote by spending enough money on glitzy TV ads.

the waterbed is about to explode ???

nah , if they actually ask the UN help , maybe in exchange we could ask them to ratify a few treaties such as the Ottawa landmines one , if we're a bit ambitious , the Kyoto agreement and to feed them with the big bad pill the International Criminal Court is .... but well .....

[denoir 0]

This thread has completely degenerated. It's no fun anymore.

Member 1: Bush sucks.

Member 2: Yepp.

Member 3: I agree

..

Member 4: Sure does...

Where have all the American Patriots gone? Where are all the little Ari Fleichers of the forums that liked to post here?

Either we are all in agreement now (boring) or people are bored with the Iraq conflict (sad)...

[Longinius 1]

I could give it a try...

I think Bush is doing a great job. We know Saddam had the WMD's, we have seen it. TBA has proof of it, they have told us so. After all, he is a mad man and he had to be stopped. Its not about the oil, and anyone saying that is just plain ignorant. Show me ANY proof that it has to do with oil?

Also, the Iraqi people needed, no, they had to be liberated. That is the only reason the US attacked, because the impotent UN wouldnt. And those Euro weaklings didnt want to commit because they were after the oil for their own communist and socialist use. But I stress, the US never had ANY interest in the oil.

....

....doing good so far?

[denoir 0]

Tja,.. well, I appreciate the gesture, but it ain't quite the same thing as the genuine article.  

I did get an explanation from another member through PM.

Quote[/b] ]You banned them all to the gulag because you couldn't stand to hear their arguments.  typical European...

That must be it!      

[bn880 5]

LOL, somehow I don't think that's it.

OR, is there more to this than meets the eye, maybe those liking the TBA also are keen on breaking international forum rules.

[Tactician 0]

You don't hear those retorts from American patriots because their numbers are dwindling, as they realize they were conned into supporting a war. Exhibit a: The disappearance of WMD in Iraq. Exhibit b: President used false information publicly accusing Iraq of trying to buy nuclear material. Exhibit c: Iraqis don't seem very happy to have us in their country, now that choreographed scenes of Iraqis waving American flags have left our minds.

I get the feeling things will be extremely hot in the next few years. Tensions are rising on multiple borders, systems are failing in multiple places, people are losing security and looking for ways to lash out.

[Tamme 0]

FSPilot where are you? Get your ass over here and defend your country!

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Okay..you want a devils advocat...you can have it:

Sucess of the Iraq war:

1. Stabilised oil prices (soon)

2. Dictators will have to think twice in the future.

3. Now we have a foot in the middle East which might help us to restore order in this disturbed and poor part of the world.

4. New business opportunities

5. Saddam and his two sons are dead.

6. No more money for families of palestinian suicide bombers

7. The americans have paid the war.

8. Because of the war Bush will loose the next election

9. Cool images on TV of tanks and desert Cammo

10. the UN will have to restructure and redefine its goals (necessary since already quite a while ago).

11. The kurds now have the chance to establish their own state (any turkish citizens on this forum?)

12. keep going!!!! whoever wants to add something!

[bn880 5]

So, maybe it's time for more predictions on my part. Where is my thinking/tin foil cap.

I don't think the US will be able to manage Iraq at all any longer than early-mid 2005. Or at least they won't be in control of it by then through problems and agreements put together.

We should start the bets on when control will be lost, or if there will actually be a gradual transition into a non Western controlled govt. in Iraq.

[Tamme 0]

9. Cool images on TV of tanks and desert Cammo

Nah, I like winter cammo more.

                         I SUPPORT WAR WITH ALASKA!