The Iraq Thread 2

[FSPilot 0]

Thats what "transport and construction duties" sounds like they'd be doing.

[ralphwiggum 6]

It looks like Japan will be sending about 1000 combat engineers for "transport and construction duties."  Hopefully, their first job will be the civilian infrastructure.

although my post will be offtopic this is a big change in Japan's miltary and constitutional perspective. their military is for defense use only, and cannot be deployed outside of the Japan. however, with this event, seems like they are trying to change their constitution or bend it.

edit: and yes, they showed Japanese congress members pushing each other around with regards to this issue on local news just right now.

[Warin 0]

It looks like there is at least one person who feels uncomfortable with the way post-war Iraq is being managed.

And he was invited by the US to participate...

Broken promise: Why I quit Iraq

[denoir 0]

Iraq attack kills three US troops

Guarding an Iraqi children's hospital...

[FSPilot 0]

The link doesn't say any, but do you know of any civilian casualties?

[DracoPaladore 0]

The link doesn't say any, but do you know of any civilian casualties?

It's pretty apparant that the gureillas are doing their best to prevent any civilian casualties. I'm pretty sure that if there were any, the news site would say so.

[FSPilot 0]

Not if they're attacking at children's hospitals.

[Warin 0]

Not if they're attacking at children's hospitals.

You can bet that if there were casualties from the hospital, it would be all over Fox and CNN.

'Look at the evil bad guys! See?? Dead americans from protecting these iraqi children who are dead too!'

The fact they arent talls me that this was a fairly precise attack on the american troops, not just a random RPG/Mine attack.

Looks like resistance is going up now, not down.

But only time will tell

[Balschoiw 0]

An extremists section in Iraq already said they will take revenge for Saddams sons. They unfortunally died as martyrs in many Iraqis heads.

[denoir 0]

Here's an interesting story: Uday's bodyguard tells his story

Quote[/b] ]

Bodyguard tells of life with Odai amid defeat

BY MATTHEW MCALLESTER

Newsday

BAGHDAD, IRAQ--Five or six days after U.S. troops seized Baghdad in April, Saddam Hussein and his two sons, Odai and Qusai, gathered secretly with a handful of aides at a house in the Adhamiya neighborhood.

The men were shocked at their defeat, having been convinced that Iraq's military would keep U.S. forces out of the capital. They had not planned for any kind of underground, guerrilla resistance to what they were realizing would be a U.S. military occupation.

But Saddam and his sons had been moving freely around Baghdad, often with astonishingly little effort to hide themselves. Odai had driven right past a convoy of U.S. soldiers, looking at their faces and quietly insulting the men who had taken control of his country. While disoriented, the Husseins concluded that fighting the Americans was still possible.The meeting to plan a guerrilla war was restricted to a handful of Saddam's top loyalists "so that no one would know the details of the resistance," said one of Odai's bodyguards. The bodyguard agreed to an interview after the death Tuesday of his former boss, but he insisted that he be identified only by a nom de guerre, Abu Tiba.

Abu Tiba, whose father served as a bodyguard to Saddam, worked for Odai from 1997 until the first days of the U.S. occupation. A cousin of his who is distantly related to Odai served as an intermediary, driving with a reporter to Abu Tiba's home. Abu Tiba was interviewed without forewarning, and many of his details of Odai's private life meshed with information from independent sources.

In the interview, Abu Tiba provided previously undisclosed details of how Iraq's ruling family fought the war, eluded the victorious U.S. troops and grappled with the shock of falling from power.

Saddam's own astonishment was obvious April 11, Abu Tiba said, 48 hours after U.S. troops toppled Saddam's government and his most prominent statue in Baghdad. Saddam and his sons attended Friday prayers at the Abu Haditha mosque in Adhamiya. Word spread quickly among the worshippers, and a crowd gathered around them outside after prayers were over.

An old woman in a black abaya walked up to Saddam and berated him with a boldness that, days earlier, could have gotten any Iraqi killed.

"What have you done to us?" she demanded.

Iraq's once all-powerful leader smacked his forehead with his open palm and pleaded for understanding.

"What could I do?" he asked the woman. "I trusted my commanders. ... They have broken the oath they took upon themselves to protect Iraq. We hope we will be back in power and everything will be fixed."

Many in the crowd began crying, Abu Tiba said. "He had told them one thing and another thing had happened," he said. "She was an old woman, and she was not afraid."

Saddam's protestations were genuine, Abu Tiba said. "They never planned to leave because they had a very good plan to prevent the Americans reaching Baghdad."

Abu Tiba, 28, who has a black crew cut, thick eyebrows and stubble in the style of his former boss, spoke matter-of-factly about Iraq's defeat and about his former boss' death at the hands of U.S. troops. The killing of Saddam's sons will not end the resistance, Abu Tiba said, because it is decentralized, a point underscored by the deaths Thursday of three more U.S. soldiers in attacks by guerrillas.

"Every resistance needs a leader, but most Iraqis will resist," he said.

Abu Tiba provided new details about the movements of Saddam and his sons during and just after the war. Among them:

? The Hussein family's conviction that the Iraqi military would resist the U.S. assault on Baghdad not only prevented them from planning a guerrilla war but also led them to dismiss the proposals from other countries that they flee into exile.

? The initial U.S. missile attack of the war, a March 20 strike intended to kill Saddam and his top aides in a farmland area in the south of Baghdad, missed badly. The intended targets were nowhere near, staying in private houses scattered around the city.

? A U.S. attack April 7, in which four tons of bombs were dropped on Mansour, a residential neighborhood, came close to killing Saddam and his sons, destroying homes and killing a reported 14 civilians only 10 minutes after the Husseins left the area. But the incident was apparently a sting by Saddam against one of his own officers, whom he executed for allegedly helping the Americans target the Iraqi leader.

? Video on Iraqi state television of Saddam and his sons during the war, including a startling April 4 broadcast of Saddam greeting the public on the streets of Adhamiya, was genuine.

? Odai, usually a drunken and rapacious playboy, concentrated all his energies during the war to directing the Fedayeen Saddam, earning the kind of respect from his father that he had not enjoyed for years.

Abu Tiba said the Americans who first occupied Baghdad missed many chances to capture or kill the first family of Iraq.

He described his boss' mood as confident when the war started but increasingly distraught as things went badly for the regime.

"Sometimes he was tense, especially when his properties or palaces were hit in the war," said Abu Tiba, one of a team of six bodyguards who worked in rotation with another team of six. "In the 1991 war, none of his sites were hit. He felt someone inside was giving information about his places. Then he'd get very tense and angry. You can see that anger in his looks. You can see the agony on his face. He was most suspicious about his friends."

Nothing hurt Odai's feelings more, Abu Tiba said, than when American bombs hit Odai's palace on the banks of the Tigris where he kept his big cats.

"He loved his animals very, very much," Abu Tiba said. "His tigers and his cougars. He was affected so much."

Odai, his brother and his father each moved every two or three days from one private house to another. Sometimes Odai stayed at one of the more modest of his many homes in regular residential neighborhoods. Sometimes he stayed with friends.

His bodyguards carried Kalashnikov automatic rifles. Odai kept a machine pistol with him at all times.

The newly responsible Odai would send orders to his Fedayeen commanders in small cases carried by messengers, avoiding means such as satellite telephones that the Americans might monitor.

As the Fedayeen emerged as the most resilient element of the regime's defenses, Odai's stock rose sharply in the regime's inner circles.

"When the Republican Guard morale declined, he felt like a leader because his father sent him a message congratulating the actions of the Fedayeen," Abu Tiba said. "He felt so happy that he was doing something for his country. ... It was great for Odai that he was commanding a fighting force."

Coordinating Iraq's defense required frequent face-to-face meetings among the president, his sons and other top leaders. Too often for Saddam's liking, the meeting places then would be bombed. Suspecting a captain on his staff of informing the Americans, Saddam gave him word that the top brass would meet at a house in Mansour on April 7.

"We went inside and then out the back door," Abu Tiba said. "Ten minutes later, it was bombed. So they killed the captain. One of Saddam's bodyguards did it."

Nearly all the time Saddam had with him a television cameraman whose tapes would be broadcast on Iraqi TV. The footage, including the unexpected sight of Saddam greeting a crowd of citizens on a street in Adhamiya, was not shot before the war and did not show one of Saddam's doubles, as was suspected in the West.

Despite this last attempt to encourage his people and troops, Saddam's hours as president were fast ticking by. On April 9, his oldest son watched the television coverage of American soldiers pulling down one of Saddam's statues.

Fuming over the loss of Baghdad, Saddam accused his commanders of betrayal, Abu Tiba said. Commanders failed to carry out elaborate plans that included three lines of defense around the city, and the setting of explosive charges to kill approaching American troops and destroy their armor.

Still the family did not flee.

"They could have left Baghdad any time, but their main goal became how to organize the resistance," Abu Tiba said.

Soon after the closed-door meeting in Adhamiya, Odai spoke to Abu Tiba and told him they had to separate.

"We'll send for you when we need you," were the last words of the subdued Odai to his trusted bodyguard. Odai gave him $1,000 as a farewell gift. Abu Tiba never got the call.

"Before the fall of Baghdad, I wanted to stop working for Odai," he said, not explaining why, "but finding Americans in our country so that the Jews can take control of Iraq makes me wish I had stayed to fight, to resist and to be a martyr for my country."

Asked whether he was afraid of being arrested by the Americans, Abu Tiba said no. "I did nothing wrong, so why should I be scared?"

While his family supports the resistance to the American occupation, they are not taking part in it. They miss their president greatly and still profess their love for him.

The deaths of Odai and Qusai must be hitting Saddam hard, said Abu Tiba's father, Abu Jassim, 49.

"If he had a weapon that would do it, he would destroy all of Iraq for his sons," Abu Jassim said. "He will be more determined to avenge them now."

But, the two men asked, with his sons gone and so many of his top aides in custody, who will protect Saddam now?

Abu Tiba pointed upward. "God," he said.

[Gollum1 0]

Fuming over the loss of Baghdad, Saddam accused his commanders of betrayal, Abu Tiba said. Commanders failed to carry out elaborate plans that included three lines of defense around the city, and the setting of explosive charges to kill approaching American troops and destroy their armor.

Maybe Hussein isn´t that insane after all.

(Don´t get me wrong he´s still an evil bastard)

This makes me doubt even more that he would have WMDed neighboring countries if he even had any WMD... (might as well put a gun to his head)

[Scope-SWAF- 0]

Not if they're attacking at children's hospitals.

You can bet that if there were casualties from the hospital, it would be all over Fox and CNN.  

'Look at the evil bad guys!  See?? Dead americans from protecting these iraqi children who are dead too!'

The fact they arent talls me that this was a fairly precise attack on the american troops, not just a random RPG/Mine attack.

Looks like resistance is going up now, not down.

But only time will tell

I cant believe my eyes....

wonder why there isnt anything about that in the CNN or that kind of media... Becouse they dont want to show anything negative about USA....

I was at Bulgary... I was watching the local news... where there was dead children, women, innocent civilians bombed to death all over baghdad... wake up.... the NEWS is not all what happens out there... those medias are ALL fileterd by their goverments...

[ralphwiggum 6]

Here's an interesting story: Uday's bodyguard tells his story

i read the story yesterday, but decided not to post the link since i wasn't sure of the authenticity of story. everythig fits in too nicely in that story. so my mind raised a flag.

An extremists section in Iraq already said they will take revenge for Saddams sons. They unfortunally died as martyrs in many Iraqis heads.

well, that surely would confirm their deaths. even Hussein loyalists agree that U&Q are dead. wonder how many still think they are propaganda of US.

Maybe Hussein isn´t that insane after all.

but was not sane enough to realize that mistreating them before war would lead to discord. even his general decided to give his position to US.

[USSoldier11B 0]

FYI unedited morgue footage available at Foxnews.com. Make sure you aren't eating anything when you look at it.

[Gollum1 0]

Maybe Hussein isn´t that insane after all.

but was not sane enough to realize that mistreating them before war would lead to discord. even his general decided to give his position to US.

Maybe that´s just stupidity ...besides, his rule and power is based on mistreating his people. It would eventually be his downfall...

[FSPilot 0]

That's a fascinating story Denoir, but so is the story of the Loch Ness monster.

I doubt it's credibility for the most part.

[Die Alive 0]

FYI unedited morgue footage available at Foxnews.com. Make sure you aren't eating anything when you look at it.

On a 1 to 10 scale for gore, I'd have to rate that a 3. The first photos of them were way more interesting. After being stitched up and cleaned up, they're just 2 stiffs. Disappointing.

Now only if they shown video footage of the autopsy....

-=Die Alive=-

[denoir 0]

That's a fascinating story Denoir, but so is the story of the Loch Ness monster.

I doubt it's credibility for the most part.

The original interview was made by Time Magazine. They are a serious news agency. On the other hand, as Ralph pointed out it all fits just a bit too well.

Who knows?

[Warin 0]

@ July 26 2003,22:06)]

Not if they're attacking at children's hospitals.

You can bet that if there were casualties from the hospital, it would be all over Fox and CNN.  

'Look at the evil bad guys!  See?? Dead americans from protecting these iraqi children who are dead too!'

The fact they arent talls me that this was a fairly precise attack on the american troops, not just a random RPG/Mine attack.

Looks like resistance is going up now, not down.

But only time will tell

I cant believe my eyes....

wonder why there isnt anything about that in the CNN or that kind of media... Becouse they dont want to show anything negative about USA....    

I was at Bulgary... I was watching the local news... where there was dead children, women, innocent civilians bombed to death all over baghdad...  wake up.... the NEWS is not all what happens out there... those medias are ALL fileterd by their goverments...

You miss my point

If Iraqi rebels attacked US forces and killed civilians, you can bet that it would be all over the news!

You wont see civilians dead if they were killed by the US though, I agree.

[denoir 0]

That's why Al-Jazeera exists

Pity we don't have access to more of that stuff. Using multiple and different sources is the best way of getting a somewhat accurate picture.

If Fox News reports: "US troops killed twenty terrorists and suffered two casualties" and Al-Jazeera reports "Five martyrs sacrificed themselves today when they attacked and killed nine infidel imperialist pigs."

Then you know that the US casualties were between 2-9 and that the other side lost between 5-20 people.

[Scope-SWAF- 0]

....soz... im drunk.... I wont post drunk anymore *crossees fingers*

[USSoldier11B 0]

That's a fascinating story Denoir, but so is the story of the Loch Ness monster.

I doubt it's credibility for the most part.

[denoir 0]

Hmm, yes the "Weekly World News"...

The French hid Saddam's nukes under the Eiffel Tower

Quote[/b] ]"He knew that the U.N. would never have the guts to demand to inspect the Eiffel Tower," the CIA insider says.

[FSPilot 0]

11 tips to save your ass in jail... literally

Maybe I'll move to a country where they just kill you on the spot instead of making you spend time in prison to be killed by a cellmate.

[ralphwiggum 6]

4 killed in attack

and just in

Quote[/b] ]U.S. Marine killed in grenade attack in Iraq, the U.S. military says, the fifth American soldier to die in last 24 hours. Details soon.