The Iraq Thread 2

[bn880 5]

I agree with you Albert, but we have someone new who has not passed the point yet, perhaps look at page xxx is a good idea... wish I had this forum on my HD so I could actually skim the pages quickly. this is too bloody slow to find references in threads the size of this one. Or wait, show 15000 posts per page, that should do it.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

and there should be a search function in this forum with the option:

Search arguments against: xxx

Search arguments PRO : xxx

Search insult against administration of the country: xxx

Search  for " NOW YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF" arguments in: xxx

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Offtopic I know

I have seen the HMS KENT (I think ) yesterday in the Malta Harbour. It seems to be returning from Enduring Freedom! Pretty beautiful ship. I took some nice pictures! (this one is off the internet though)

[theavonlady 2]

I have seen the HMS KENT (I think ) yesterday in the Malta Harbour.

The USS Cole is patched up and on its way to the Mediterranean:

Surface Strike Group Deploys to Mediterranean

(click here for hi-res image).

[HOBOMAN 0]

How did the US mishandle their weapons? We never sold any to iraq. The weapons and bunkers we built in afganistan were bombed by us after we found out osama was killing civilians with the weapons. France didn't exactly atemped to destory they weapons they gave to iraq, once found out saddam started killing civlians.

[denoir 0]

How did the US mishandle their weapons? We never sold any to iraq.

Of course you did. You were Saddam's number one western weapon supplier. You even gave them materials for bio & chemical weapons.

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]What are your counter-suggestions?

Or do you simply think that the US should pack up and leave Iraq in the mess that it's in right now?

Or course not..It`s their mess so they should take the heat..

But it woud be nice to see american soldiers answering for their actions...Do you see how they handle right now civilians deaths...They give 500 bucks per death..

How would you feel if your beloved would be killed just because he was at the wrong time at the wrong place in front of a soldier who accidently sees in a 9 year old girl  an iraqi insurgent holding an ak..You know what happends to this soldiers if the iraqi woudn`t do their own justice..well they would return home and get congratulated by the president for a job well done...

If they would respect the iraquis and treat them as human beings they will see drastict changes in their attitude..

If you don`t belive me read this really intresting aticle and find out about who are th real insurents

Quote[/b] ]"They promised to liberate us from occupation, they promised us rights and liberty and my colleagues and I waited to make our decision on whether to fight until we saw how they would act."

But for Abu Mujhid and his men these things never materialized. They say the U.S. troops acted savagely towards Iraqis and failed to provide security for them.

"They should have come and just given us food and some security," he said. "Even today I feel like I cannot drive my car at night because of Ali Baba (the Baghdad slang for criminals)."

"It was then I realized that they had come as occupiers and not as liberators," he says. "And my colleagues and I then voted to fight.

Right now it`s impossible for the americans to have it their way..They have to see that in best scenario:

They give control to shiites,being the majority of the iraquis,and we would see a theocratic Iraq best friends with Iran...

Worst scenario that could be very possible:

The shiite ay-atolah calls for jhaad war againts americans and then all hell would break loose...We are talking about millions of shiites fighting side by side with sunni to drive the americans out..Enourmous casualtiess on americans side will be inflicted and retreat would be the only option,and maybe americans will learn the lesson that they should have learned in the nam war..But things won`t end here..Americans are out, now probably civil war will start which would settle who will be in power..The majority of the populations shiites,or the sunni who are better armed...In the end you could even see Saddam back in power the only person respected well enough that could keep the country toghether,laughing his ass off at the americans biggest failure Unlikely but you never really know...

[HOBOMAN 0]

How did the US mishandle their weapons? We never sold any to iraq.

Of course you did. You were Saddam's number one western weapon supplier. You even gave them materials for bio & chemical weapons.

Show me evidence that we gave saddam biological weapons.

we never did

[denoir 0]

How did the US mishandle their weapons? We never sold any to iraq.

Of course you did. You were Saddam's number one western weapon supplier. You even gave them materials for bio & chemical weapons.

Show me evidence that we gave saddam biological weapons.

we never did

Here:

reference one

reference 2 (list of suppliers)

reference 3

[HOBOMAN 0]

But ask yourself, the sacfice made by the american people is worth the freedom of iraqis. Iraq has not seen freedom for 30 years. They have been slaughted becuase of their ideas and religon. We not let a group of thugs take away the natual rights of the iraqi people

[Tamme 0]

How did the US mishandle their weapons? We never sold any to iraq.

Of course you did. You were Saddam's number one western weapon supplier. You even gave them materials for bio & chemical weapons.

Show me evidence that we gave saddam biological weapons.

we never did

Here:

reference one

reference 2 (list of suppliers)

reference 3

Denoir you're experienced enough to understand that that's just pinko-commie-anti-american bullshit. Give us some real unbiased proof.

[ran 0]

But ask yourself, the sacfice made by the american people is worth the freedom of iraqis. Iraq has not seen freedom for 30 years. They have been slaughted becuase of their ideas and religon. We not let a group of thugs take away the natual rights of the iraqi people

looks like there's a scratch on the disc

[HOBOMAN 0]

How did the US mishandle their weapons? We never sold any to iraq.

Of course you did. You were Saddam's number one western weapon supplier. You even gave them materials for bio & chemical weapons.

Show me evidence that we gave saddam biological weapons.

we never did

Here:

reference one

reference 2 (list of suppliers)

reference 3

Sorry but this is not visable evidence. All information is either altered or not true. Nor does it state the us government it self sold weapons to iraq. These articals were not writen by relitble authors.

[denoir 0]

Denoir you're experienced enough to understand that that's just pinko-commie-anti-american bullshit. Give us some real unbiased proof.

You know, you should have not posted that, because I can bet that our friend will not understand the sacracsm  

Now you're forcing me to explain the validity of the references.

1) LA weekly, hardly anti-american

2) The list was submitted by the governments of the different countries to the UN. This is what they admitt to, there is probably much more that they didn't tell the UN.

3) Amnesty international. Non-political article listing some of the suppliers.

[HOBOMAN 0]

I will be back to defend my opinions shortly, I must see the eagles beat the cowboys

[quicksand 0]

Quote[/b] ]But ask yourself, the sacfice made by the american people is worth the freedom of iraqis. Iraq has not seen freedom for 30 years. They have been slaughted becuase of their ideas and religon. We not let a group of thugs take away the natual rights of the iraqi people

OK so what if the Iraquis decide they hate american guts and want to have nothing to do with them,canceling all connections...No iraq oil,no dollars,would americans just let them since IT is a democracy..I tell you not in a million years..

It`s more like you are free to choose our way right now....

[Tamme 0]

But ask yourself, the sacfice made by the american people is worth the freedom of iraqis. Iraq has not seen freedom for 30 years. They have been slaughted becuase of their ideas and religon. We not let a group of thugs take away the natual rights of the iraqi people

AFAIK the baathist didn't bother the regular iraqis too much. If you weren't interested in politics you had nothing to worry about really.

[denoir 0]

Sorry but this is not visable evidence. All information is either altered or not true. Nor does it state the us government it self sold weapons to iraq. These articals were not writen by relitble authors.

Read my statement above. The list of US companies was submitted to the UN by the US government.

So denying it is just silly. If you want, I'll give you as many cross-references as you wish, but that is only a waste of my time.

Use google, read a newspaper or whatever..

[ralphwiggum 6]

But ask yourself, the sacfice made by the american people is worth the freedom of iraqis. Iraq has not seen freedom for 30 years. They have been slaughted becuase of their ideas and religon. We not let a group of thugs take away the natual rights of the iraqi people

it's because US supported the same dictator who oppresed Iraqi's freedom. They were slaughtered becuase they didi not agree with Hussein. and most of western worlds stood on the sidewalk and let it go on.

Furthermore, current war started because TBA deemed Iraq has failed to comply with UN resolution 1441, which was about WMD, which has not been found yet.

I highly suggest that you read the whole thread(and the previous one).

[theavonlady 2]

AFAIK the baathist didn't bother the regular iraqis too much. If you weren't interested in politics you had nothing to worry about really.

I believe it was a "60 Minutes" report I was watching last night about the Iraqi morgues being filled up with the almost one million bodies, that are being dug up from mass graves around Iraq, including those that had highways paved over them.

Plenty of those shown were shot in the head or beaten or tortured to death.

Maybe too many Iraqis were interested in politics. They should have listened to you.

[Tamme 0]

AFAIK the baathist didn't bother the regular iraqis too much. If you weren't interested in politics you had nothing to worry about really.

I believe it was a "60 Minutes" report I was watching last night about the Iraqi morgues being filled up with the almost one million bodies, that are being dug up from mass graves around Iraq, including those that had highways paved over them.

Plenty of those shown were shot in the head or beaten or tortured to death.

Maybe too many Iraqis were interested in politics. They should have listened to you.

Oh yeah. Shit, my bad. I heard of thos mass graves somewhere before, but wasn't paying attention so I forgot about it. Sorry.

[denoir 0]

AFAIK the baathist didn't bother the regular iraqis too much. If you weren't interested in politics you had nothing to worry about really.

I believe it was a "60 Minutes" report I was watching last night about the Iraqi morgues being filled up with the almost one million bodies, that are being dug up from mass graves around Iraq, including those that had highways paved over them.

You fail to mention that most of those are dead from the Iran-Iraq war.

[theavonlady 2]

AFAIK the baathist didn't bother the regular iraqis too much. If you weren't interested in politics you had nothing to worry about really.

I believe it was a "60 Minutes" report I was watching last night about the Iraqi morgues being filled up with the almost one million bodies, that are being dug up from mass graves around Iraq, including those that had highways paved over them.

You fail to mention that most of those are dead from the Iran-Iraq war.

No. At least in the report, there were specific mass graves phtographed, showing smashed skulls or those punctured by bullets and others where machine guns were used to mow down the people on site.

What made you think the report is about war casualties?

Those Iraqis inteviewed were searching for relatives, friends and neighbors who were taken away by the Baathist regime one day and never seen again.

[bn880 5]

Yeah we know lots of people died in Iraq... ok so there is a mass grave, are you suggesting genocide?

That's what I wonder when I watch some "news" here. US forces uncover another mass grave (well all graves are mass graves in a way), and... so what? They show all the "horrific" pictures, and make it look like a mass grave of WW2. What's the point? Or that they were executed, fine, death punishment was also in their law, just like Texas. I don't get it, what's the special problem.

[theavonlady 2]

60 Minutes Report Link.

Correction: 300,000 missing Iraqis - not that it makes it much better.

[bn880 5]

Those Iraqis inteviewed were searching for relatives, friends and neighbors who were taken away by the Baathist regime one day and never seen again.

They were considered criminals, were they not? Is the death penalty uncommon in the mid-east? Ha?