The Iraq Thread 2

[NurEinMensch 0]

Realpolitik for you.

Germany alone is indeed not politically strong enough to do much on its own, and last time we opposed the US together with some other countries it split the EU, with the UK, Spain etc. on one side and France and Germany etc. on the other side.

I don't think anyone is in the mood to take that risk again. Especially since most agree that something has to happen in Iraq, no matter who's in charge there.

It's sad to see Bush&Co get what they always wanted and it's really sad to know we in Europe are going to pay to rebuild what the US with its we-make-it-our-way-war destroyed.

But whats the alternative? To wait until Bush comes beggin on his knees and handing over authority in Iraq to the UN? That's not going to happen.

I wish I knew a way out that helped the iraqi people at punished Bush at the same time.

[denoir 0]

Yeah, so now we're going to end up paying for Bush's war adventurism. I can't for the world imagine why the EU leaders have chosen to kiss and make up with Bush at this point. Bush is asking for help.

If USA ends up paying the entire bill, the chances of him getting reelected are small. So why on earth are the EU leaders helping Bush to get reelected? The prudent approach would be to tell Bush to get lost and after there is a new American president become friends with USA again. Surely it is a better long-term solution.

Can anybody explain to me what there is to gain by agreeing to Bush's demands without any conditions? It is the EU that has Bush by his balls not vice versa. When Bush was in a strong position before the war they chose to pick a fight but now when they are in advantage they choose to retreat. Where is the logic in that?

[SgtBarnes 0]

This is surely the mark of a true superpower. A country that can tell the rest of the world to go to hell, launch a war of agression, then get the rest of the world to help pay for it.  

[Tex -USMC- 0]

This is surely the mark of a true superpower. A country that can tell the rest of the world to go to hell, launch a war of agression, then get the rest of the world to help pay for it.  

As fucked up as it is, I can't help but feel a little proud

[Leveler 0]

Meanwhile, human shields looking at jail time...

Somehow this doesn't surprise me the least. It's a bloody shame!

What are they gonna come up with next? Recording people who search for arab culture in libraries? Turning back investors because they have ties to the "terrorist" countries?.....  no wait they are already doing this with patriot act    Such bigotry...

Recording peoople who search for arab culture in libraries? They're not doing that are they?

They are monitoring those people and if the government asks for their info, they provide it. I can understand it if they do it for chemical/ biological weapons info (as if a chemistry/ biology graduate does not know the basic stuff you can find in the library ), but for anything else these processes should be outlawed

[bn880 5]

Can anybody explain to me what there is to gain by agreeing to Bush's demands without any conditions?

Well don't jump to any conclusions, I'll believe it when a deal is reached without any conditions. It is probably part of a political game to get Bush to bend to something. Well hopefully.

[NurEinMensch 0]

[...]Can anybody explain to me what there is to gain by agreeing to Bush's demands without any conditions?  It is the EU that has Bush by his balls not vice versa.  When Bush was in a strong position before the war they chose to pick a fight but now when they are in advantage they choose to retreat.  Where is the logic in that?

There will be conditions, but they won't be like you or me would like them to be, only some minor stuff I fear...

I'm all for the EU telling Bush to f*** off, but it's not going to happen?

Why? Because there is no unified European position. We can't even get everyone to agree to a common currency, let alone challenge the last remaining superpower.

Then look at some of the soon-to-be-EU-members, like Poland etc. they are more closer to the UK and US position than to France or Germany.

Currently the EU can't do nothing when it comes to such vital questions, it's every country on its own.

If we get a European foreign ministry or something like that maybe that will change. But until we convince the people in the member states to give up a lot of national souvereignity to a federal body, we'll have to stick to what we have.

France, Germany and whoever shares their position just don't get enough backup from other EU countries to tell Bush to "get lost" like you said it.

[denoir 0]

@ Sep. 24 2003,23:23)]

This is surely the mark of a true superpower. A country that can tell the rest of the world to go to hell, launch a war of agression, then get the rest of the world to help pay for it.  

As fucked up as it is, I can't help but feel a little proud  

Well, while I may not be very happy about financing Bush with my tax money, I still believe you get the worse part of the deal. In the end Bush being president for four more years is much more your problem than it is mine.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

@ Sep. 24 2003,23:23)]

This is surely the mark of a true superpower. A country that can tell the rest of the world to go to hell, launch a war of agression, then get the rest of the world to help pay for it.  

As fucked up as it is, I can't help but feel a little proud  

Well, while I may not be very happy about financing Bush with my tax money, I still believe you get the worse part of the deal.  In the end Bush being president for four more years is much more your problem than it is mine.  

You have a point. I've all ready resigned myself to having to put up with those goddam "This is Bush country!" bumper stickers (I shit you not) for another term. Honestly, I don't even know who I'm going to vote for- I might write myself in

[denoir 0]

I'm all for the EU telling Bush to f*** off, but it's not going to happen?

Why? Because there is no unified European position. We can't even get everyone to agree to a common currency, let alone challenge the last remaining superpower.

Then look at some of the soon-to-be-EU-members, like Poland etc. they are more closer to the UK and US position than to France or Germany.

Currently the EU can't do nothing when it comes to such vital questions, it's every country on its own.

If we get a European foreign ministry or something like that maybe that will change. But until we convince the people in the member states to give up a lot of national souvereignity to a federal body, we'll have to stick to what we have.

France, Germany and whoever shares their position just don't get enough backup from other EU countries to tell Bush to "get lost" like you said it.

France and Russia still have veto powers. And Germany will follow. Incidentally, France and Germany are the both the biggest military and economic contributors to the UN. And a Russian blessing is very important.

Now, as seen by the various pre-war and post-war discussions and decisions, Germany will follow France.

So this whole deal stands and falls on what the French do. And obviously the EU as an institution isn't capable to handle this due to the internal disagreements.

And I can't see any gain by helping Bush stay in power. Everybody would be better off without him. America as well as the EU. Even Blair would be very happy do disassociate himself from Bush. All they need to do is to ride out his presidency. It's only a year until the next elections.

[denoir 0]

@ Sep. 25 2003,00:03)]I've all ready resigned myself to having to put up with those goddam "This is Bush country!" bumper stickers (I shit you not) for another term.

If the EU continues to appease TBA in this manner, I'll be getting one of those bumper stickers too

[Goeth 0]

Who knows what kind of contracts Bush promised to Schröder.

[denoir 0]

@ Sep. 25 2003,00:11)]Who knows what kind of contracts Bush promised to Schröder.

Yeah, we'll probably know when Fox News announces the "new hip trend" of instead of having "Thanksgiving Turkey" to have "Thanksgiving Sauerkraut".

[Goeth 0]

heh that "Thanksgiving Sauerkraut" is kinda spooky.

[NurEinMensch 0]

Sounds like a fair deal! Schröder you get my vote in the next election.

[Mr. Snrub 0]

I wish I could view politics as simplistic as this man does. Would really help a lot, eh.

As well as being a mindless prat, Rush Limbaugh also has the dubious honour of being a 'Chickenhawk', along with his good chums Bush and Cheney.

For someone so keen to see military force used, to send young men and women into harm's way, it's ironic that Limbaugh deliberately avoided being drafted into the Vietnam War. His excuse? Ingrown hair follicle on his arse...

Chickenhawk Database

[ralphwiggum 6]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/09/25/sprj.irq.bureau/index.html

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq -- The Baghdad news bureau of U.S. broadcaster NBC has been hit by a bomb blast, killing one and wounding two others, according to an NBC reporter.

The bureau, which is housed in the al Aike Hotel, was bombed at 0650 local time (0250 GMT), NBC reporter Jim Avila said on MSNBC.

Iraqi police said the bomb was placed near a hut that housed the hotel generator.

Lt. Col. Salman Kareem said the bomb killed the hotel's Somalian night manager guard. Damage to the hotel was minimal, he said, and it was mainly broken glass.

A dozen NBC staffers were inside the building when the explosion occurred.

I tell ya, whoever is behind this is a total idiot. has no concept of PR relationship.

ont he other hand,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3137732.stm

Quote[/b] ]Former Iraqi Defence Minister Sultan Hashim Ahmed has been given effective immunity from prosecution following his surrender to US forces.

Mr Ahmed - number 27 on the Americans' list of most wanted former Iraqi officials - gave himself up in the northern city of Mosul on Friday.

White House officials said they have high hopes he will provide significant information on Iraq's alleged weapons programmes.

The news comes as US officials have indicated that an interim report by the Iraqi Survey Group - charged with locating weapons of mass destruction in the country - will contain evidence of illegal weapons.

However, officials say, it will not definitively answer whether or not such weapons will ever be found in the country.

[theavonlady 2]

@ Sep. 25 2003,00:03)]I've all ready resigned myself to having to put up with those goddam "This is Bush country!" bumper stickers (I shit you not) for another term.

If the EU continues to appease TBA in this manner, I'll be getting one of those bumper stickers too    

Alternatives.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

@ Sep. 25 2003,00:03)]I've all ready resigned myself to having to put up with those goddam "This is Bush country!" bumper stickers (I shit you not) for another term.

If the EU continues to appease TBA in this manner, I'll be getting one of those bumper stickers too    

Alternatives.

Wow, Those are f'in lame.

[theavonlady 2]

@ Sep. 25 2003,10:20)]

@ Sep. 25 2003,00:03)]I've all ready resigned myself to having to put up with those goddam "This is Bush country!" bumper stickers (I shit you not) for another term.

If the EU continues to appease TBA in this manner, I'll be getting one of those bumper stickers too    

Alternatives.

Wow, Those are f'in lame.

Yes, I agree. Good for whiners, though.

[hellfish6 7]

I'm a whiner. I think I'll buy some.

[Major Fubar 0]

While I can empathise with the sentiment of those stickers, none are particularly clever or witty.

[CosmicCastaway 0]

While I can empathise with the sentiment of those stickers, none are particularly clever or witty.

I think that pretty much describes bumper stickers in general.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3135932.stm

Tony and George seem to have lied...knowing Tony, he will be able to lay the blame onto MI5+6 and thus squirm himself out of the trap, but what about George? As far as I know, a president can be impeached for lying to Congress?

[bn880 5]

Well this sticker seems ok but just barely.

EDIT: But hey these are better for ppl that care about peace more Stickers