Realistic vechicles

[Polishdude 0]

I was browsing pages of the Army and found that M1A1 Abrams has the crew of four, and in OFP1 you have only 3, the same with UH-60 Blackhawk, has 3 in real life and 2 in your game. So I hope you do this in OFP2!

[Ian Malcolm 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was browsing pages of the Army and found that M1A1 Abrams has the crew of four, and in OFP1 you have only 3<span id='postcolor'>

I bet it was design solution. With just 12 F keys on keyboard and 4 crew guys in one tank will be OFP tank platoon just from 3 tanks. 3 guys in one tank allows you command 4 tanks. And is it ballanced for both sides same.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Also, they probably came to the conclusion that it would be pretty boring to play as a loader.

I can just see the packaging for Flashpoint 2.

'Play as a soldier, pilot, tank commander, gunner, driver or loader. Operation Flashpoint 2 has the only and the most realistic loading simulation. Choose between a simple loading setup that requires only a few keys, or a complex system were each movement in the loading process requires a key to its own.'

Seriously though, for the sake of realism I think they should put loaders in tanks, but only as an AI character, because I doubt there is too much fun to be had from slamming 120mm shells into the gun breach.

[silent_64 0]

No... On the ohter hand they can make the whole tank (As well as any other veicle) With a small RPG element, (Expericens) The longer you fight, the faster the loader can load, the driver can drive with more control (Better brakeing etc.) The comander can see things further away, and the gunner shots better.

Also as a loading feature, you could use your mouse, move the mouse klick on the right round move it into the barrel and lock the barrel. The more he does that he gains more exp. and he can reload faster!

[Harnu 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Polishdude @ April 26 2003,09:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was browsing pages of the Army and found that M1A1 Abrams has the crew of four, and in OFP1 you have only 3, the same with UH-60 Blackhawk, has 3 in real life and 2 in your game.      So I hope you do this in OFP2! <span id='postcolor'>

Is it just me or weren't both of those things not in use in the NAM era? The M1Abrams was first battle tested in Desert Storm, and the B;clwak wasn't around much longer

[Jinef 2]

Heh, the invasion of Grenada for example, 65000 troops against 2000 militia and 50 Cubans, they bombed a hospital, had friendly fire, drowned seals but the Blackhawks worked exceptionally well.

[Polishdude 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Harnu @ 26 April 2003,13:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is it just me or weren't both of those things not in use in the NAM era?  The M1Abrams was first battle tested in Desert Storm, and the B;clwak wasn't around much longer  <span id='postcolor'>

Yes but we still don't know if its gonna me Vietnam!!!!!

And I just want to look like a real military vechicles.

And the PBR BOat in real life it has a crew of 3.

[nyles 11]

Seat management: OFP currently has four types of places for players in vehicles. driver, gunner, commander and ride in back. The first three are pretty clear as they only allow for one player but the ride in back positions could need some improvement. Let's take the 5-ton truck for example: When you want to ride in back, the first 2 persons are automatically placed in the drivers cabine, regardless of where they tried to enter the vehicle. I would like to see it work that way, that there is a division of ride in back positions and not that ride in back pool like we have right now. Basically this means that when I want to ride in back and enter the vehicle at the back, I can only be placed on the back area of the vehicle and not in the cabine. Furthermore, when I enter at the front door, I can't be placed on the back. It might be difficult to achieve this, especially making all this clear to the AI, but it certainly would add a lot to the game. There are a lot of vehicles which could need several adjustments here. For example the jeeps, trucks and basically every vehicle with a seperated crew compartment.

Another thing which I would like to see is how and when crew members can take over stations from other persons. I wouldn't limit the possibility to exchange places to stationary units only, for example. That way, the co-pilot or even a passenger could take over the pilot seat if he gets shot down, or a better pilot riding in back could be asked to take over controls in-flight. There are a lot of nice possibilities which arise from the sheer fact that it would be possible. In tanks for example, the commander could easily take over the gunner station or vice versa. Note though, that currently the commander and gunner can take over the driver station in tanks where the driver is seperated from the rest of the crew. This should not be the case. Neither while standing nor while moving. You should have to disembark and enter the vehicle as driver again. This would not only be realistic but makes the handling of a whole tank by a single player more difficult and more fair to other players who try to team up. Furthermore there are some vehicles that could need some more spare ride in back seats like the m113, where there is still a lot of space in the back, even when fully loaded. You did something like this already with the Hind helicopter by increasing passenger capacity from 6 to 8 in one of the last patches if I recall correctly, thus it shouldn't be a big problem. When considering changes regarding seat management, you should always think in a logical way if it would be possible to change from seat A to seat B or not. The option to order AI to switch to accessable positions without having to disembark would be nice, too. The current system might work, too, but a rework could add a lot the game as a whole, as it would make it more realistic and for many people more fun to play, too. Another advantage would be that when moving around with a tank platoon there is often the case that one of your tanks gets shot down leaving a few of the crew injured but alive. In such cases the whole movement speed of the platoon is crippled as the infantry moves very slow and if injured mostly can only crawl. I would suggest to give some of the MBTs another spare seat inside. This seat could simply be the position of the loader which most tanks lack as a crew member anyways in op:fp. I'm not suggesting to give the tanks 4 crew members by default as this would most likely screw up a lot of missions where the max. squadlimit would be exceeded. Just allow personal to use this spare seats (1 per tank) as a "ride in back" option. Yet another option would be to allow a number of soldiers to ride atop tanks, but with the option for the tank crew to kick them off the tank if the tank is below a certain speed, so it can still rapidly engage targets without having to wait before everybody is off the tank again.

[Epita 0]

On the topic of Auto Loaders, the BA is agains them because it means with a crew of 3 not 4 there is more pressure on things like stag etc. And they are not that reliable and still a little slower.

Epita

[bn880 5]

Nyles, I'm sure OFP2 developers don't have time to read posts THAT long and un-chunked.

[nyles 11]

If they want to increase sales, they'd better do..

[ALDEGA 0]

What I'd like to see are more realistic vehicles. In OFP the vehicles act much like the ones in arcade games. I know it's not feasible to go into extreme detail, but if you want to have an A-10, then it should be more realistic

[Steameh 0]

Yeah more realistic vehicles and vehicle weapons, paint schemes etc would be great. I would also like to see a greater vareity of vehicles, i thought that in ofp the policy of releasing vehicles weapons etc was a brillient idea but underutilised, and as a result of that there were few vehicles that were available. Addons i hear you cry, addons are good, however addons are no good for multiplayer missions unless everyone has the addon. I would also like to see more civilian stuff, just the plane and the cars seemed a bit sparce to me. All im saying is a greater realim level in vehicles please and also lots more vehicles too

[crassus 0]

Now this will definitely pose a challenge for modders, or be just downright impossible for all but the most dedictated in that group, or BIS itself: If you, the player, chose to pilot or drive one of those "sophisticated" vehicles, e.g. the AH1 Cobra, the M60 Patton, the A1? Skyraider--I'm listing 'Nam-era vehicles as OFP 2 supposedly takes place then--etc., then you would be in essence be playing an AH1 "simulator", or tank "simulator", or Skyraider "simulator". You would have either an additional set of "hot keys" to learn for the vehicle in question, or an entirely new set of keys.

I've not played the whole demo through, but I found having to learn a game like "Steel Beasts", where each tank position had its own "tutorial" fun.

I've also played, albeit the demo, Jane's F15: Fun.

I suspect there a more players out there who like the "balance" of the game, where you can just get in any vehicle and go, than those who would like what would amount to a "collection" of sims in one.

But as far as something more "do-able", how about more realistic commands when in a vehicle such as a tank. I would order a change of ammunition type with a keystroke or mouse-click and I would hear "Load sabot"...(sounds of a sabot round being loaded and locked in) "Sabot up" calls my AI loader.

I also would like to see a loade of part of the tank crew. Combine that with better dammage effects, it would be one more crewman you would have to care for, 'cause if he's dead, your tank gunner,even if he were human, would either be screwed all together, or he would have to do the loading himself. (Is the gunner capable of loading the gun himself should the need arise?)

[dkraver 1]

There already were a post about genearal lack of positions in OFP 1 including the loaders position here so read before posting. No need for multiple post about same thing.

Anyways what i surgested in that post is this.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would like to see the abillity to have more crew positions. By this i mean something like this.

-Abillity to have 2 pilots in choppers and planes.

Selection would be 1st pilot 2nd pilot.

-Abillity to have multiple gunner position in choppers, planes and vehicles.

Selection would be gunner 1, gunner 2, gunner 3......

-Abillity to have a loader on tanks and artillery which needs to be there for the canon to be reloaded and maybe more than one on artillery cannons.

Selection would be loader 1, loader 2, loader 3....

-Maybe also to have other crew positions like a crew chief in choppers and planes or support crew, without having it as cargo position.

Selection would be crew 1, crew 2, crew 3......<span id='postcolor'>

On other things

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is it just me or weren't both of those things not in use in the NAM era?  The M1Abrams was first battle tested in Desert Storm, and the B;clwak wasn't around much longer  <span id='postcolor'>

First if its gonna be about nam there will still be US tanks there and they dont use auto loaders.

Second as stated by BIS the games will allow ofp 1 models to be used/converted into the game so modern stuff will be able to be integrate with the new features that will be available with ofp 2 and played in ofp 2.

Third as stated a lot of times by a lot of people the game isnt limited to one conflict/year.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Seriously though, for the sake of realism I think they should put loaders in tanks, but only as an AI character, because I doubt there is too much fun to be had from slamming 120mm shells into the gun breach.

<span id='postcolor'>

Hehe you are right about that but you could always give the gunner the finger and hurry up to the turret gun  

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> I'm not suggesting to give the tanks 4 crew members by default as this would most likely screw up a lot of missions where the max. squadlimit would be exceeded.<span id='postcolor'>

You could make it so when as a example you are commander of a tank platoon of four tanks you only communicate with the commander of the other vehicles, so a vehicle with crew is a single working unit that you can give commands to instead of having to give commands to each postion in that crew. So the unit bar would show 4 tanks with numbers 1 2 3 4 instead.

[crassus 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So the unit bar would show 4 tanks with numbers 1 2 3 4 instead<span id='postcolor'>

And when you order your platoon to dismount, all of your soldiers would appear in the bar?

[dkraver 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Crassus @ 28 April 2003,19:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So the unit bar would show 4 tanks with numbers 1 2 3 4 instead<span id='postcolor'>

And when you order your platoon to dismount, all of your soldiers would appear in the bar?<span id='postcolor'>

Not really. I know that in the danish army the lead tank has a officer which is in command. The 3 others have a sergeants in charge. So when they dismount it would be to the commander of that vehicle you would give orders to, so you would still have it as a group.

In real life its not very often that a officer go around to the privates saying do this and that unless its one assigned to be around him like a driver. He gives the orders to his sergeants who then select some people to do the job. Like some in the military would say shit go down rank praise goes up rank (dont know how it is said in english this is the closest translation i could come up with).

Did a post on the idea here before i noticed that there where a stickie post on roughly the same subject

[dm 9]

How about a re-work of the command structure, so that you (as the highest ranking officer, and therefore the leader of your group) can only see your NCO's in the command bar, that way each NCO can have 11 men under him, you can control up to 11 NCO's giving a maximum of 132 troops at your command... (and why waste the F1 key on yourself??)

anyho... I digress...

The most important reason for having a loader in a tank in OFP is so that he can operate his weapon (on the M1A2 its a 7.62mm Machinegun mounted on his hatch) I mean who would want to spend the game loading the main gun??

That way, you could have the Main gun + its Co-ax, the Commanders weapon, and the Loaders weapon, giving you 3 machineguns and 1 main gun on the tank...

But, i dont think thats the main point of this post, in a round-about way, this post is asking for multiple gunners, which is what OFP has lacked from the start (I never really understood why they didn't implement the ability to code extra weapons with the UtsiHlavne1, konnecHlavne1 etc in the same way as most other animated features work)

my my... that was a confused post

[CuteQA 0]

the most important thing is don't miss the size again