Weapons

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I hope bis will not include weird weapons like Uzi, ingram or hunting rifle nor ubber scoped assault/snipe weapons like the G36 , i would like to see realistic developded rifles regarding rate of fire, sound, looks... .

How old are you?  When did you start following weapons?  (I do not ask these questions to insult you, but to understand why you would say what you have.)

The Uzi and the Mac-10 and Mac-11 are not "weird" weapons.  They were very common in some circles in the 70's.  They were (and still are) effective weapons for the roles they were created for.  All kinds of weapons that you would consider "junk" would certainly make its way to Africa's mercs and militias.

Yes, the HK G36 does not belong in OFP2's campaigns, at all, though it might be kept for those who wish to make more modern missions.

--Uziyahu-IDF

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Jamming ratios have been printed in weapon reviews for many, many weapons over the years. The chance for jamming (or any other malfunction) is based both on the real-life jamming ratio of the weapon and on various other factors, rain, mud, dust, fouling, lack of lubrication, bad magazines, parts that need replacing, etc.

To some degree a soldier should be able to influence his weapon's jamming ratio for good, but sometimes a weapon is just a piece of crap. I cleaned and lubed both my M16A1 and A2 rifles, as instructed, and both were prone to jamming. I'd take an AK-47 or 74 over an M16, any day, just because of my experience with the M16 series. Of course, I'd make sure that the AK-47 had a muzzle brake installed.

--Uziyahu-IDF

http://www.idfsquad.com/

[PainDealer 0]

about reloading:

when you change a mag that still has some ammo in it the ammo should be lost or kept with the player so he could gather up all the leftovers in one mag. of course this action would take some time.

[Silver Falcon 0]

I suggest "interactive" M203 (or generaly GL) sights, where "+" and "-" sets how far you shoot. It would rapidly increase te usability of GL.

And I forgot, incerease the muzzle velocity of M203 granades as in real. It can shoot 400 meters (mv= 76-79 m/s).

Also the effect should be better even in standards of OFP1 (flying hot particles), only I'm not sure it would be a bit more demanding on HW.

[stevevcb 3]

I think that the occasional dud hand grenade/40mm bomb/rocket would be great, that could really add to the randomness of combat.

How cool would it be though if you fired your last 203 bomb at an enemy soldier, only for it to land in front of him and go hish and start smouldering... then to have the bugger grin, pull his AK47 up and let rip, only to have a stoppage

[Snypa UK 0]

someone said something about preferring AK's over an M16 first off hes entitled to an opinion but i wouldnt agree with him, first armalite is lighter than AK second its more flexible third its more accurate, fourth AK looks like shit and makes you look like a terrorist.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

5th its not as reliable, which is the most important thing in some situations

6th the AKM is lighter than the C7 - the new models of AK such as Ak102,3,4,5- series are even lighter

[Snypa UK 0]

Thats because the C7 has a heavy barrel to help against recoil the AKM is not very relialble either its more precise so it screws up easier

[Snypa UK 0]

THe only kalasnikov i would use is the one that comes under the name Groza the one with the two round burst. quite frankly im not dumb enough to use my rifle as a spade so i still prefer any weapon apart from kalashnikov

[ralphwiggum 6]

it's been a well known fact that in early stags of Vietnam war, Us soldiers would use AK47 they confiscasted instead of M16. in one new report, the US soldier confirmed that AKs were much more reliable due to its a bit more loosen up fitting.

[-style- 0]

I don't think anyone has every gone into detail on this, did a quick search too.

I'd like to see BIS do some extra research and give the weapons all the real life statistics...

Rate of fire, muzzle velocity, that stuff.

There are some great sites with tables of this data, so it would only take a couple minutes to look it up, and then set the numbers properly.

Varying rates of fire would be neat too (for applicable weapons), might be a bit of extra work, but it would be pretty cool to see in game.

That and semi-auto fire rate being limited to the weapon's cycle time (might be in OFP already, I don't remember).

(Then again, mouse-wheeling might be a problem)

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

THe only kalasnikov i would use is the one that comes under the name Groza the one with the two round burst. quite frankly im not dumb enough to use my rifle as a spade so i still prefer any weapon apart from kalashnikov

Groza is the bullpub, the one with the 2 round burst at 1800 RPM is the An-94 Abakan.

[Snypa UK 0]

cool never knew that cheers baron

[Snypa UK 0]

Quote[/b] ]in one new report, the US soldier confirmed that AKs were much more reliable due to its a bit more loosen up fitting

Yes but thats because the Ak 47s accuracy is for shit, its heavier and so is its ammunition, its got bad balance and is back heavy so it has bad recoil.

Besides all that the M16 did have problems early in vietnam because it was a new weapon and all the problems got fixed. For example the soldiers were issued cleaning kits.

[stevevcb 3]

I'd say the 7.62x39 round used in the AK47 is a better round than the 5.56mm NATO round as if it hits you, you go down, no questions asked. Factors such as accuracy, weight and balance are all second to reliability if you're in combat. You don't want to pull your ergonomically designed, high-tech, lightweight, all-singing, all dancing assault rifle up only for it to jam, especially if the enemy only have to stop firing to reload.

Good example: The SA80 (L85A1). Accurate, compact and relatively light, but totally unreliable.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Agree in general - however the L85AI is almost the heaviest or the heaviest assault rifle in use by a modern military... Its not that much of a problem, but it's not 'light' compared to other weapons.

(Steyr Aug= 3.8 kg unloaded

AK 4,3 kg; AKM 3,14 kg unloaded

C7/8 (Canadian M16 style thing) 3.3 kg unloaded

G36 3.6 kg (3.3 kg G36E) G36K 3.3 kg (3.0 kg G36KE) G35C 2.8 kg

SA80 4.13 kg Empty 5 kg with SUSAT and loaded with magazine with 30 rounds of ammunition (and the new mags for the A2 are even heavier)

M16A2 = 3.77 kg empty)

On reliablility - the argument isn't that you should be able to use the rifle as a spade, its that it should still bloody work when you are 'in the shit'- when you have just fired a couple of hundred rounds through it at the enemy advance, you shouldn't have to stop to clean it, because the enemy will not wait!  Thats why the reliability is paramount.

[Snypa UK 0]

Quote[/b] ]SA80 4.13 kg Empty 5 kg with SUSAT and loaded with magazine with 30 rounds of ammunition (and the new mags for the A2 are even heavier)

THe L85 has good balance and is now very reliable. The new magazines are heavier now because the metal is thicker so they dont bend and become unusable when dropped

Quote[/b] ]I'd say the 7.62x39 round used in the AK47 is a better round than the 5.56mm NATO round as if it hits you, you go down, no questions asked.

the 7.62 round is more lethal indeed but the point of the 5.56 is to maim enemys and not always kill them. This is because you tie up about 4-10 troops looking after a wounded man whereas a dead man can be left. big GPMGs have big 7.62 bullets to kill lots of people as with 50.cals but thay just blow people to bits.

Quote[/b] ]Good example: The SA80 (L85A1). Accurate, compact and relatively light, but totally unreliable.

The L85A1 is known for unreliability so the Mod got heckler and koch to fix it and came out with the L85A2 this is very reliable and the times ive used it (although with blanks ill admit apart from on Shooting range) its has been very reliable as long as you clean it once a day.

Quote[/b] ]Steyr Aug= 3.8 kg unloaded

AK 4,3 kg; AKM 3,14 kg unloaded

C7/8 (Canadian M16 style thing) 3.3 kg unloaded

G36 3.6 kg (3.3 kg G36E) G36K 3.3 kg (3.0 kg G36KE) G35C 2.8 kg

SA80 4.13 kg Empty 5 kg with SUSAT and loaded with magazine with 30 rounds of ammunition (and the new mags for the A2 are even heavier)

Just remember that these are all very modern weapons all designed within the last 5 years (although i dont know about steyr aug) and the ones that werent designed recently eg AK are all heavy because of the wooden butt that makes it back heavy

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Quote[/b] ]THe L85 has good balance and is now very reliable. The new magazines are heavier now because the metal is thicker so they dont bend and become unusable when dropped

Is now MORE reliable, not VERY reliable. I know why the mags are heavier. However, that is not the point; they are heavy.

Quote[/b] ]the 7.62 round is more lethal indeed but the point of the 5.56 is to maim enemys and not always kill them. This is because you tie up about 4-10 troops looking after a wounded man whereas a dead man can be left.

Yes

Quote[/b] ]The L85A1 is known for unreliability so the Mod got heckler and koch to fix it and came out with the L85A2 this is very reliable and the times ive used it (although with blanks ill admit apart from on Shooting range) its has been very reliable as long as you clean it once a day.

Its only more reliable in relation to the A1, not in relation to other weapons. It is now roughly on par with most other weapons in reliability, although it still has other problems.

How many rounds do you put through it in a day on the ranges? Not that many, I'll bet- the rest of your Coy has to go through. Unless you're on the shooting team... like me.

Now compare this to being in a defensive position, holding against an enemy advance.... blatting off hundreds of rounds, constantly bombing up....

Ever done a SAT range? The defence scenario?

Wouldn't like to be using an L85 in real life for that one...

Quote[/b] ]

Just remember that these are all very modern weapons all designed within the last 5 years (although i dont know about steyr aug)

Thats just STUNNINGLY wrong. Totally, utterly, wrong. And irrelevant: It doesn't matter how old or new the designs are, we are comparing the weight, not how heavy they are.

[stevevcb 3]

The SA80/L85 is a poorly designed weapon anyway, and the build quality really doesn't help. I've heard stories from an ex-forces guy about major welds busting during bayonet practices- he stabned the first two sacks with no trouble, but when he ran the third through, the gun pretty much broke down the middle, and he had to charge the rest of the sacks with just his bayonet and a silly scream. Funny as hell if it's in training, but if it happened mid-way between some close-quarters work, you'd be stuffed. Now, compare that to stories of NVA and VC soldiers running out of rounds and being cut off, then using their wood-stocked SKS and AK47 rifles to beat their way through the enemy.

Like Baron said, age is irrelevant. I fired an old Lee Enfield No. 4 once, and the guy who owned it said that it'd never jammed, misfired or broke in the fifteen years he'd had it... and it was an ex-issue rifle that could well have been used in real combat during WW2. Also, the HK G36 is meant to be a very reliable weapon (good old German manufacturing).

I'll have to admit that I have a soft-spot for the SA80/L85 just because it's British and it looks different, but it's a crappy gun. Everyone I know who's used one has said that when it works, it's alright, very accurate, but it's heavy, and the A1 had far to many sticky-out bits that'd catch on your webbing (in the worst case, you could catch the magazine release switch and dump the mag). And having to operate the safety (on the A1 at least, not sure about the A2) with your index finger... that'd madness! If you're taking the safety off, it's because you intend to fire upon and kill someone, and since it's the last thing you do before firing, the time you take putting your finger back on the trigger may well be the difference between life and death, especially if someone's got the drop on you.

EDIT:

I understand the thinking between the adoption of 5.56, and it's a sound theory, but after hearing stories about special forces in the Falklands putting two or three rounds into an enemy soldier only to have him turn around and start firing, I have my doubts. Give me and L1A1 SLR any day of the week: it was tough, reliable, and if you were in a pinch, you could always use it to club people with it instead.

[Snypa UK 0]

The SLR is about as maneuverable as a dead rabbit and weighs far too much as for those storys about bayonets breaking your friend is very unlucky. The safety catch thing is rubbish while i agree thats a problem you wouldnt be in imminent contact with the enemy and have the safety off. The scariest problem of the A1 was that with safety catch on you could strike its barrel and it would fire

[Snypa UK 0]

Quote[/b] ]its a crappy gun

Its not a gun a gun is on wheels its a rifle (sorry just something our sargeant gets pissed off about its very funny)

[Snypa UK 0]

Quote[/b] ]I've heard stories from an ex-forces guy about major welds busting during bayonet practices-

Christ unlucky we had our whole company do that and the worst we got was the back of someones SUSAT popped out which is very bad in combat.

Quote[/b] ]with your index finger... that'd madness! If you're taking the safety off, it's because you intend to fire upon and kill someone, and since it's the last thing you do before firing

Thats on a range where range restrictions apply when youre expecting imminent combat with the enemy the safety should be off anyway. Besides all that its a third of a second to take off the safety and putting your finger in. I have a feeling youve believed andy mcnab too much.

Quote[/b] ]but it's heavy, and the A1 had far to many sticky-out bits that'd catch on your webbing (in the worst case, you could catch the magazine release switch and dump the mag).

Thats true one of the scary things they changed by putting in a shroud on the magazine

Quote[/b] ]Give me and L1A1 SLR any day of the week: it was tough, reliable, and if you were in a pinch, you could always use it to club people with it instead.

You feel free to carry an SLR on a 50 mile T.a.b. Also its ammunition weighs a lot. Its not incredibly accurate. Its not very maneuvaerable, useless for mechanized and Airborne infantry as well as for MOUT but your right about clubbing the enemy with it

Quote[/b] ]blatting off hundreds of rounds,

Thats the job of your LSWs (minimis in the near future and GPMGs) Besides all that the barrel can take that much anyway but you should be trying to minimize spray and pray as you have to carry ammunition which is another advantage of the 5.56.

Quote[/b] ]Ever done a SAT range? The defence scenario?

Yes i have most fun ive had but in real life your section would not all be carrying L85s it would be carrying L86s or minimis with them

[ran 0]

The SLR is about as maneuverable as a dead rabbit

take the rabbit by the ears and it becomes a deadly melee weapon

[Snypa UK 0]

I guess its a bad idea to call it a dead turtle then?

[Snypa UK 0]

seriously though its too long and cumbersome for MOUT and CQB as well as carrying in a helicopter or APC