Ofp's m2a2 bradley in the light of the iraq war

[Bobby - CSLA team 0]

I have been studied tanks/armored fighting vehicles for last four years.

Concerning Bradley AFV, I agree with previous post, where has been said, that usage of ERA is highly unlikely. ERA armor makes life of infantry support very dangerous, when metal particles (metal plates) are flying around AFV. Even Israelis on their Zeldas don't use ERA, but passive TOGA armor. There are some examples in Chechenya conflict, when infantry refused to accompany ERA equiped tanks. This lead to high russian losses.

According to me, Bradley in it's last version is equiped with advanced (CHOBHAM type) passive armor shields and aplique armor, which improves allaround protection to level about 200 mm RHA. It means, that armor of Braldley is equivalent to 200 mm of homogenous steel plate. Easy to compare with T-72 which has about 450-700 mm RHA from frontal arc (very much version dependent). RPG-7 has penetration slightly above 300 mm RHA in ideal case. It is influenced by standoff armor, spaced amor and angle of impact. It means, that RPG-7 in good shape (cumulative charge degrades after few years of storage), will penetrate Bradley every third round (statistically). Bradley is not a tank.

One common note: modern ammunition (Heat, APDSFS) do not deflect. Angle of armor plates is a way how to lay more armor into penetrator path at the same weight.

[-TU--33ker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 08 2003,14:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also mentioned is that RPGs are all amphibious (in one convoluted way or another), whereas OFP's sinks like lead.<span id='postcolor'>

you mean Bradleys not RPGs, don't you?

[Przezdzieblo 0]

If I remember Bradleys are amphibious but after some preparations. There is imposible to cross deep water obstacle without those actions.

ERA may be dangerous for infrantry and RPG explosion on vehicle side too.

New versions of Bradleys with reactive armour could resist more hits than older. But still RPG is big threat, when hit plates not protected with ERA, top od vehicle or even front at some degree (possibility of engine destroyed and fire)

What a pity that OF engine still do not support realistic damage system. But I think there is some way to deal with this lack. Maybe when projectile smash new Bradley, hitted part would be out of action. One RPG could turn Bradley out of action (track, engine, armament malfunction), hurt crewmembers but without vehicle explosion.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote ([TU]$33ker @ April 10 2003,17:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 08 2003,14:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also mentioned is that RPGs are all amphibious (in one convoluted way or another), whereas OFP's sinks like lead.<span id='postcolor'>

you mean Bradleys not RPGs, don't you? <span id='postcolor'>

/must have coc torpedo mod on my mind

[GrimmDraco 0]

Ok ladies and gents, let me clear up few things ive noticed so far... ok, for starters the M6 Linebacker DOES carry troops, but only 2. The current Bradleys the army now has, are no longer given the water fording kit. and as for the cannon that someone said was to powerful, guess what, when we do gunners tables, we have a system to go by, driver up, identify, on the way. at that point, we fire 3 rounds, those 3 rounds take out the target. so, you decide, if thats how we train, why would it be wrong? cuz we train like we fight, and fight like we train! Also, let it be noted that we usually carry 2 different types of ammo, HE and AP....so it would be nice to see that ingame. If anyone has any questions about the bradley, feel free to email me at GrimmDraco13@yahoo.com

Peace,

GrimmDraco

[Wick_105 0]

just a little tidbit of info, from the front yes the bradly might withstand a RPG-7 outside of 100m, from the sides or rear it would turn it inside out...the reporters on CNN have an artistic right to over sensationalize whats actually going on...and a lone iraqi soldier is not going to take the time to properly take-aim when there is more than one vehicle (I sure as hell wouldnt) as by the time you have started to reload that RPG, the other vehicles would be hammering you with everything they have.

one of the big drawbacks of the bradly is that its to big without the capacity to carry much, but is the best recce vehicle the US army has....other than a few well armed light vehicles.

[benreeper 0]

That's why the BIS RPG's are as powerful as they are. In SP (this was meant to be an SP only game) you are routinely outgunned, so if have 2 troops and a single RPG left, having to kill that lone APC would not become a mission_stopper. If the player had to fire at that vehicle 3 times, he would definitely have been fired upon and killed. It's pretty hairy now trying to off that 1 shot.

Now that the PC's we use to play this game are more powerful than the ones used to play the CWC campaign (generally), we are making missions with realistic numbers of combatants. The conservative intent of SP game balance is not needed anymore. I believe if we reduce the power of all shoulder launched weapons by 2/3rds we would achieve a more realistic infantry to armor balance.

Infantry will become more vulnerable to armored vehicles, as they should be. This is the main reason tanks are important on the battlefield: without a tank to kill another tank, the infantry is toast.

Ben

[PFC_Mike 2]

Yeah, the weapons do need to be toned down. Vladmir's BMP-3 can take two or three RPG hits, which is nice, but it's too damn powerful against any other AFV. Seriously, the BMP-3 takes out an M1 about half the time!

BTW, the firing ports were deleted on later models of the bradley. They can't use an M16, only an M234 Firing Port Weapon.

[Wick_105 0]

a .50 BMG from the sides will turn most APC'S into swiss cheese

[AngusHeaf 0]

Let it be known first off that I happen to have recently fallen in love with the Bradley within the past week. That story in a second... Anyways, I would be happier than hell to just see the ability to still rotate the turrets of many vehicles while turned out. God I find that so unbelievably annoying. It would also be nice to see those guys from the Desert OFP project remodel everything in OFP since they seem to do a really spot-on job (need to release more things though!!. I'm curious though about the HE/AP rounds. I know that AP rounds in recent Brads are DU and don't necessarily explode into a little ball of fire like AP rounds hitting the ground in OFP. But do the HE rounds do that in real life?

Oh and my recent story about the OFP Brads involves me playing a 3 hour game of CTI wherein I got the jump (from about a 10 o'clock angle no less) on 2 travelling T80s. The groups consisted of 1 full AI control T80 and 1 with a human gunner commanding the pair with an AI drive, my 3 Brads, 2 full AI control, me gunning lead Brad with AI driver. I chewed them both up right horribly. After roasting both and taking only a glancing shot to the rear Brad we proceeded to down a Mi17 which FFARed me to death but my goonsquad in the leftover Brads cleaned up. I'm now thoroughly convinced that OFP Brads, in multiplayer, if used in a pack can chew up things to great effect ONLY if they get the first shot off and keep moving. And that's my little story that I'm so proud of I've told a dozen times now... I'm so pathetic.

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (benreeper @ April 11 2003,18:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That's why the BIS RPG's are as powerful as they are.  In SP (this was meant to be an SP only game) you are routinely outgunned, so if have 2 troops and a single RPG left, having to kill that lone APC would not become a mission_stopper.  If the player had to fire at that vehicle 3 times, he would definitely have been fired upon and killed.  It's pretty hairy now trying to off that 1 shot.

Now that the PC's we use to play this game are more powerful than the ones used to play the CWC campaign (generally), we are making missions with realistic numbers of combatants.  The conservative intent of SP game balance is not needed anymore.  I believe if we reduce the power of all shoulder launched weapons by 2/3rds we would achieve a more realistic infantry to armor balance.

Infantry will become more vulnerable to armored vehicles, as they should be.  This is the main reason tanks are important on the battlefield: without a tank to kill another tank, the infantry is toast.

Ben<span id='postcolor'>

Said it before and I'll say it again. To get the balance right, armour AND AT weapons both need increasing by about a factor of 100. Why? so that the more powerful anti personnel weapons (like the Mk19) ar no longer so devastating against armour. AT would include anti-material rifles as well; I have evedence that these are effective against MBTs. NOT by trying to penetrate the armour, but they seem to be fully capable of breaking tracks, destroying electronics and vision equipment. What good is a tank if it can't move and the crew is blind?

[N.o.R.S.u 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Przezdzieblo @ April 10 2003,17:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What a pity that OF engine still do not support realistic damage system. But I think there is some way to deal with this lack. Maybe when projectile smash new Bradley, hitted part would be out of action. One RPG could turn Bradley out of action (track, engine, armament malfunction), hurt crewmembers but without vehicle explosion.<span id='postcolor'>

I remember shooting BMP with Kegetys' RPG-7 and it didn't explode, only its left tracks were disabled (they went completely black). Sometimes this happens but not always and the bad thing in it is that the crew bails out every time when the tank is immobilised.

It would be great if they would still continue shooting, maybe some scripts would do that?

[hellfish6 7]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N.o.R.S.u @ April 13 2003,05:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It would be great if they would still continue shooting, maybe some scripts would do that?<span id='postcolor'>

I think in real life, most crews would bail in a situation like that. They don't know if they're on fire or not, it they were just immobilized or totally taken out... and the crew is also probably freaking out.

[GrimmDraco 0]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH, bail out, right... my MOS has a motto folks.... DEATH BEFORE DISMOUNT!!!!!!! oh, that was funny, thanks for the laugh....on a more serious note...to clear a few things up, when the drivers hatch is open, the turret dont move, unless you turn the override on...dunno why, if the barrel rotates to that mil, the barrel atuomatically elavates to go over it...but all the same its a safety issue.

[dm 9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GrimmDraco @ April 13 2003,22:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">when the drivers hatch is open, the turret dont move, unless you turn the override on...dunno why, if the barrel rotates to that mil, the barrel atuomatically elavates to go over it...but all the same its a safety issue.<span id='postcolor'>

So BIS got that bit right then

sounds good... any other little quirks about the Bradley? Or any other Armoured vehicle you know about?

[hellfish6 7]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GrimmDraco @ April 13 2003,16:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HAHAHAHAHAHAH, bail out, right... my MOS has a motto folks.... DEATH BEFORE DISMOUNT!!!!!!! oh, that was funny, thanks for the laugh....on a more serious note...to clear a few things up, when the drivers hatch is open, the turret dont move, unless you turn the override on...dunno why, if the barrel rotates to that mil, the barrel atuomatically elavates to go over it...but all the same its a safety issue.<span id='postcolor'>

DEATH BEFORE DISMOUNT?

That's how we "crunchies" made fun of you mech boys - you'd rather die than walk.

Granted... 20 miles with a full ruck DOES suck. Bad. Especially afterwards, when your skin sticks to your socks, not your feet.

[CrunchyFrog 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ April 13 2003,23:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That's how we "crunchies" made fun of you mech boys - you'd rather die than walk. <span id='postcolor'>

Got that right, you pappa-yogi-pinky-bear!

[Stag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GrimmDraco @ April 13 2003,02:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HAHAHAHAHAHAH, bail out, right... my MOS has a motto folks.... DEATH BEFORE DISMOUNT!!!!!!! oh, that was funny, thanks for the laugh....on a more serious note...to clear a few things up, when the drivers hatch is open, the turret dont move, unless you turn the override on...dunno why, if the barrel rotates to that mil, the barrel atuomatically elavates to go over it...but all the same its a safety issue.<span id='postcolor'>

That's odd. Granted we're talking about WW2, but My dad's mob had a motto too: "Get the fuck out before you're burned alive."

[PFC Mongoose 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wardog @ April 14 2003,12:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GrimmDraco @ April 13 2003,02:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HAHAHAHAHAHAH, bail out, right... my MOS has a motto folks.... DEATH BEFORE DISMOUNT!!!!!!! oh, that was funny, thanks for the laugh....on a more serious note...to clear a few things up, when the drivers hatch is open, the turret dont move, unless you turn the override on...dunno why, if the barrel rotates to that mil, the barrel atuomatically elavates to go over it...but all the same its a safety issue.<span id='postcolor'>

That's odd. Granted we're talking about WW2, but My dad's mob had a motto too: "Get the fuck out before you're burned alive."<span id='postcolor'>

Well, from my experience in Op Flash, if you're in a tank engagement, and you get hit, and you're immobilized, chances are, you're dead whether you get out or nnot if another MBT sinks that last shell into yours.

So, usually I chance it, stay in, and hopfully try to disable them before they finish me.

Rarely works, though.

[danelectro_dc 0]

Well, incase no one else noticed, a lot of things in ofp need some work, like the flight model, how jets travelling at 400 mph crash into the ground and stay in one piece, how the bmp-1 is about a meter or two taller than the one in real life, and how the bmp-2 is a bmp-1 model with at-5 and 30mm cannon. the T-72 and T-80 are just ugly (thanks sig for remaking those tanks). Those are just some... And to get back on track, there's an addon that adds an m3 and m6, I think there accuratly modelled in the .cpp, but not sure, and then there is ash's MBT and IFV realized pack that works too. Oh yeah, the brad can withstand SOME RPGs (like RPG-7) because the RPG-7 is a shaped grenade on a rocket. Some thing like a wire guided AT-10, or an RPG-29 would mess the brad up pretty bad.

[VXR 9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (danelectro_dc @ April 14 2003,21:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, incase no one else noticed, a lot of things in ofp need some work, like the flight model, how jets travelling at 400 mph crash into the ground and stay in one piece, how the bmp-1 is about a meter or two taller than the one in real life, and how the bmp-2 is a bmp-1 model with at-5 and 30mm cannon. the T-72 and T-80 are just ugly (thanks sig for remaking those tanks). Those are just some... And to get back on track, there's an addon that adds an m3 and m6, I think there accuratly modelled in the .cpp, but not sure, and then there is ash's MBT and IFV realized pack that works too. Oh yeah, the brad can withstand SOME RPGs (like RPG-7) because the RPG-7 is a shaped grenade on a rocket. Some thing like a wire guided AT-10, or an RPG-29 would mess the brad up pretty bad.<span id='postcolor'>

yeah well.. maybe RSS is remaking them to make them more realistic.

[Stag 0]

Bloody hell! He DOES look like Alan Arkin!

[Ares1978 0]

nevermind. my mistake.

[VXR 9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wardog @ April 14 2003,22:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Bloody hell! He DOES look like Alan Arkin!<span id='postcolor'>

only too bad its not allowed to have that as a sig its too large

[PFC_Mike 2]

well, in about five minutes I'm going to see if teh OFP Bradley is correct heigt, found a great pic of a guy standing next to one.

Anyway, in WW2 US tanks were unusually flammable compared to foreign ones...the Nazis called the Sherman "tommycooker" or "zippo" BMP is quite similar in real life.

Also, to the mystery Bradley-maker: I have a lot of good detail photos of the interior and exterior. If you want them, contact me. one other little feature: There is a screen on the commanders position on the M2 that blocks road dust. It folds when not in use. Also, put lots of stuff on it for the GW2 version, like water cans and bags.