War games for pacifists?

[pzvg 0]

Forgive me if I sound crass or obtuse, but why in the world would someone who objects to war play a wargame?

It's more than a tad hypocritical, and makes for strange codes of morality.

[Guest]

I don't know how you can compare "killing off" a few pixels with killing real people. I don't see any moral problem there. A war game is just as the name implies, a game.

Also there are few total pacifists in the world. Not liking this current war does not necessarily mean excluding all forms of armed response to other situations as a solution.

[PFC Mongoose 0]

Well, it's kind of tricky, and it depends on the person.

For example, I always get insenced when I hear about violent video games causing things like school shootings and such.

When I was in high school, I liked to think coming home and fragging terrorists and bombing outposts and occupied cities is what kept me from hauling off and decking people who pissed me off, and such.

More on subject, I generally think of killing - and in a grander (as in larger, not better ) sense, war - as a last resort, I love playing OpFlash; the bigger the battle, the better.

However, if I were to join the military, and were in a fighting unit (highly unlikely, the latter, not the former), I would be LOATHE to open up on people, and I'm sure seeing death and carnage up close would @#$% me up really bad.

[CosmicCastaway 0]

How does playing a game involving the killing of fictional characters in fictional roles equate in any way to killing a real person? Killing someone is a hell of a thing, you take away all they have and everything they are ever going to have. Shoot a 'virtual' representation of someone, all you lose is your own time. If you find it hypocritical that someone can enjoy playing a game that depicts war, yet be against the actual real-life act, I'm sorely dissapointed.

I even know quite a few vegetarians that play those crappy dear-hunter games, bloody hypocritical bastards.

[STS_SolidSnake 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 01 2003,21:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know how you can compare "killing off" a few pixels with killing real people. I don't see any moral problem there. A war game is just as the name implies, a game.

Also there are few total pacifists in the world. Not liking this current war does not necessarily mean excluding all forms of armed response to other situations as a solution.<span id='postcolor'>

If its just killing a few pixels then why cant you play like you said in the thread about coc

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (STS_SolidSnake @ April 01 2003,22:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If its just killing a few pixels then why cant you play like you said in the thread about coc  <span id='postcolor'>

Because it does have a connotation to the real thing. When you see dead and mutilated people on TV your lust for playing war decreases (well, at least mine does).

This doesn't have to be the general case however. I actually played the OFP Demo for the first time on a laptop in Kosovo.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 31 2003,22:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know how you can compare "killing off" a few pixels with killing real people. I don't see any moral problem there. A war game is just as the name implies, a game.

Also there are few total pacifists in the world. Not liking this current war does not necessarily mean excluding all forms of armed response to other situations as a solution.<span id='postcolor'>

Listen to what he says, also, a game will never be able to show the real horrors of war and if you die in a game, you can press the reset button...

[hellfish6 7]

I agree with these sentiments. I am opposed to war in Iraq, but I'm not a pacifist. I think force and violence are very potent tools, but only when used properly. And it's very easy for me to separate OFP from reality. If only I could have run as well in the Army as I can in OFP...

[DracoPaladore 0]

Umm...maybe because its fake?

Thats my only real reason. Why yes, killing a human is wrong. But what I'm killing are small pixels that are barely even close to humans.

[Maraudeur 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 01 2003,21:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know how you can compare "killing off" a few pixels with killing real people. I don't see any moral problem there. A war game is just as the name implies, a game.

Also there are few total pacifists in the world. Not liking this current war does not necessarily mean excluding all forms of armed response to other situations as a solution.<span id='postcolor'>

Precisely, I can see where is, for some, not the comparison, but the mix.

It is just a game, but gaming is exporting ourself in an own created virtual world, sphere of contacts and feelings.

Look at children.

And adults...mostly have a virtual life ! Do I mean they lack a true one ? YES !

That's everyday seen by :

-" Oh, I really put my child in the micro wave oven to dry it, did I ?? "

-" Oh, do you mean I became a murderer, just by driving my car ?? "

-*On a sofa * " I can't sleep, life downtown is everyday more expensive, It'll be better if I work harder to earn more money, and go at rest whre true life is, at countryside, you know doctor Freud "

- *later* " If I win the big lotery, i'll buy this, and this, and that sexy xxx, and that...."

And finally : " What sort of life did that stranger had ? Mechanic ? He suffered what he his, what happens to the pixels I kill, that's destiny ! I'm not guilty ! I'm pacifist and ecologist deep inside me, don't throw me in a jail, IT'S NOT ME ! It's THE SYSTEM ! "

LOL.

* Finally I ask to myself... is it really a murder ?? *

[pzvg 0]

"It's only pixels"

Then why is the war you watch on TV bothering you?

"It's only pixels" you aren't there.

Yes it's a real war, yes people will get really killed, but trying to justify your pleasure at simulating the act of capping people

by saying it's different, it isn't real, that's lying to yourself if no one else.

Btw I didn't change the title of this thread, hey mods, look up the textbook definition of censorship, there was absolutely NO acceptable reason to change the title except to put your own slant on the conversation.

No biggie for you, I'll simply move this discussion to forums where democratic isn't merely lip service.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (pzvg @ April 01 2003,23:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"It's only pixels"

Then why is the war you watch on TV bothering you?

"It's only pixels" you aren't there.<span id='postcolor'>

But the people who are being killed ARE

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes it's a real war, yes people will get really killed, but trying to justify your pleasure at simulating the act of capping people

by saying it's different, it isn't real, that's lying to yourself if no one else.

<span id='postcolor'>

Seek help, please.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (pzvg @ April 01 2003,23:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes it's a real war, yes people will get really killed, but trying to justify your pleasure at simulating the act of capping people

by saying it's different, it isn't real, that's lying to yourself if no one else.<span id='postcolor'>

If you cannot differentiate between real and symbolic violence then you need to seek help before you snap and start killing real people.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Btw I didn't change the title of this thread, hey mods, look up the textbook definition of censorship, there was absolutely NO acceptable reason to change the title except to put your own slant on the conversation.

<span id='postcolor'>

I changed the title from "I want to know" to a more understandable one. Instead of complaining, you should read the

board rules, §2.6

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No biggie for you, I'll simply move this discussion to forums where democratic isn't merely lip service.<span id='postcolor'>

Where on earth did you get the idea that we have a democratic system here? If you want democracy, find another forum. My feelings will be hurt, but I'll get over it.

[PitViper 0]

I think there are some teletubby games for the pacifists.

[Koolkid101 0]

How do you do that denoir this sign "§" What is that?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Koolkid101 @ April 02 2003,01:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How do you do that denoir this sign "§" What is that?<span id='postcolor'>

Stands for 'section', I believe. And either Swedes have uber-keyboards with all sorts of wierd keys, or it's an ASCII character.

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also there are few total pacifists in the world.  <span id='postcolor'>

aall the pacifists would die out due to natural selection  

as for ur funny symbols

Ţ晿

[OxPecker 0]

First of all, just because people are against the current (illegal) action in Iraq does not neccessarily make them pacifists.

Secondly, even if you are a pacifist, why wouldn't you play war based computer games?

I used to play Carmageddon, doesn't mean I support running people over in real life.

I play GTA, but I don't go around stealing cars.

Video games are a form of escapism. They don't have to be tied to your views in the real world.

And anyway, many people I know said OFP drove home to them some of the realities od war - how easily soldiers die in a conflict. There is no reset button in real war.

So what I am saying is I can see no hypocrisy in being a pacifist and playing war sims.

[pzvg 0]

@Denoir

Double standards got ya down? try playing by your own rules.

@ everybody telling me to seek help,

Sp/4 Stewman W. T. formerly US army, formerly B co. 3rd spt Bn, 1st bde, 3rd ID <mech> those are my friends fighting and dying out there, so kindly do not lecture me <a combat disabled vet> on the reality of war, I think I know a shitload more about it than you, dig?

You know what, the hell with you and your dolled up version of right and wrong, I support putting a mindless murderer out of business, if going to war will acheive that goal faster, then war it is, you have a problem with that? TOUGH SHIT, take a number, not like any of you out there like us anyway, except when the aid checks roll in.

Don't see y'all stopping mods because what the russians are doing, just when WE get involved does war become "sinful"

Go ahead hate us some more, but do it quietly, lest we take notice, there's a new dance, you might want to learn the steps.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (pzvg @ April 02 2003,02:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">@Denoir

Double standards got ya down? try playing by your own rules.

@ everybody telling me to seek help,

Sp/4 Stewman W. T. formerly US army, formerly B co. 3rd spt Bn, 1st bde, 3rd ID <mech> those are my friends fighting and dying out there, so kindly do not lecture me <a combat disabled vet> on the reality of war, I think I know a shitload more about it than you, dig? <span id='postcolor'>

Back in the day I used to play a flight sim called "Jetfighter" where I enjoyed taking my F-14, and flying it into that funky pyramid shaped building in San Fransisco, at such a low speed that I wouldn't explode, but instead the nose section would get lodged in the building and the plane would be stuck way up there. Then me and my RIO would eject and the plane would become dislodged and slide all the way down the building setting off sparks as it went, until it exploded at the bottom. It looked cool as hell - well, as cool as EGA graphics can possibly look. Going by your view of computer game reality vs. real life, I'm a terrorist! damn, better go into hiding.

It seems that your combat experience hasn't helped much your ability to distinguish escapist entretainment from real life. Hey maybe that could explain some of the Friendly Fire going on. Come to think of it, I've never seen a Scimitar tank modeled in a fight sim, and the only ones where I've seen the British flag were set in  WW2. Maybe that A-10 pilot thought he was in a bonus level where he had to take out British terrorists that were planning to retake the US. Or maybe he had tags turned on and thought "Scimitar...hmmm....well, it sounds arab"

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You know what, the hell with you and your dolled up version of right and wrong,  I support putting a mindless murderer out of business, if going to war will acheive that goal faster, then war it is, you have a problem with that? TOUGH SHIT, take a number, not like any of you out there like us anyway, except when the aid checks roll in.

Don't see y'all stopping mods because what the russians are doing, just when WE get involved does war become "sinful"

<span id='postcolor'>

Stopping a murderer by killing off his victims first? I'll give you points for originality

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Go ahead hate us some more, but do it quietly, lest we take notice, there's a new dance, you might want to learn the steps.

<span id='postcolor'>

I'll point out again that we hate what your government is doing, not you as a people, but I doubt you'll listen.

The dance isn't my style BTW.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Btw I didn't change the title of this thread, hey mods, look up the textbook definition of censorship, there was absolutely NO acceptable reason to change the title except to put your own slant on the conversation.<span id='postcolor'>

he merely changed the thread title to something more relevent.

ok, before this thread goes off topic, i'll give it a shot at reviving it.

some ppl will have hard time playing war based game in current situation. i personally don't feel that it discouraged me, but others would disagree. for them, OFP is a step closer to reality, and for me, still a step away from reality.