The Dogs of War

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ Mar. 22 2003,18:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There are reports coming in that Ansar al-Islam (the group with alleged links to Al-Quaida)

has conducted a car bomb attack in northern (Kurdish) Iraq in the town of Halabja killing one journalist and at least eight other people.<span id='postcolor'>

Australian Journalist.

Here's an interesting Saddam childhood story:

We have a relative who has a friend whose father was a classmate of Saddam's. He said he was a real bully but that was nothing compared to what Kid Saddam did to a teacher whom he didn't like. Saddam shot him.

[Longinius 1]

Dont know if it has been said, but trenches around Bagdad have been filled with oil and set ablaze to stop the coalition forces from entering the city, while it creates a smoke screen at the same time.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 22 2003,20:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dont know if it has been said, but trenches around Bagdad have been filled with oil and set ablaze to stop the coalition forces from entering the city, while it creates a smoke screen at the same time.<span id='postcolor'>

The coalition could set up giant fans, blow the smoke towards Baghdad and flush Saddam out.

Remember, you heard it here first!

[-TU--33ker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 22 2003,19:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dont know if it has been said, but trenches around Bagdad have been filled with oil and set ablaze to stop the coalition forces from entering the city, while it creates a smoke screen at the same time.<span id='postcolor'>

doesn't sound like a good idea. the iraqi soldiers and people are fucked up if the wind blows all the smoke to the city!

[hellfish6 7]

Thanks for posting that link to Al Jazeera's live feed. I've been looking to see what they are shooting. This might sound crazy, but they seem more impartial than most other news agencies right now. And, since I only speak minimal arabic, I can't hear their stupid commentary or "expert analysis" like on CNN and Fox news.

Can anybody else post links to direct feeds? Even CNN or BBC? I'd like to see Sky News, if possible. Or ITN or a Russian network.

[hellfish6 7]

Does anyone think it's strange to see lights still on in Baghdad?

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ Mar. 22 2003,19:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thanks for posting that link to Al Jazeera's live feed. I've been looking to see what they are shooting. This might sound crazy, but they seem more impartial than most other news agencies right now. And, since I only speak minimal arabic, I can't hear their stupid commentary or "expert analysis" like on CNN and Fox news.

Can anybody else post links to direct feeds? Even CNN or BBC? I'd like to see Sky News, if possible. Or ITN or a Russian network.<span id='postcolor'>

the only CNN one i've seen is not free

yes , it would be cool if anybody could find more direct feeds

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ Mar. 22 2003,19:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does anyone think it's strange to see lights still on in Baghdad?<span id='postcolor'>

been said earlier i think , but why would you put the town in Black Out ? to give an occasion to the US aircrafts to use their brand new Night targetting systems and to make the action of the town's emergency services harder ? a black out would be useless and would make more harm than good if provoked by the iraqis themselves , on the other hand . if the coallition's aviation bombed the baghdad's powerplants , i think it would have a big psychological effect

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ Mar. 22 2003,19:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does anyone think it's strange to see lights still on in Baghdad?<span id='postcolor'>

the logic is that turning the lights off won't help much, so why bother.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ Mar. 22 2003,20:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Does anyone think it's strange to see lights still on in Baghdad?<span id='postcolor'>

No. So far, the utilities have not been targeted apparently.

I assume that most electric grids offer alternative paths for carrying electricity should a primary path go down.

[FallenPaladin 0]

I would let the town be enlightened, too. It`ll make it harder for US special forces to fight unseen.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ Mar. 22 2003,19:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I would let the town be enlightened, too. It`ll make it harder for US special forces to fight unseen.<span id='postcolor'>

that too ..

[theavonlady 2]

Al Arabia TV, 50 minutes ago:

Iraq claims a plane was shot down over Baghdad. Two pilots seen ejecting.

Who knows. Wait and see.

[hellfish6 7]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 22 2003,13:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Al Arabia TV, 50 minutes ago:

Iraq claims a plane was shot down over Baghdad. Two pilots seen ejecting.

Who knows. Wait and see.<span id='postcolor'>

Do you have a link for that, or was it on your TV?

[hellfish6 7]

Al Jazeera live feed is showing lots of apparently civillian bodies and building wreckage right now. Warning - Graphic.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ Mar. 22 2003,20:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Al Jazeera live feed is showing lots of apparently civillian bodies and building wreckage right now. Warning - Graphic.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, according to Swedish media the coalition forces used some form of fragmentation bombs against Basra that killed over 50 civilians. I wonder if that was the artillery strike that Reuters et al were talking about yesteday?

[munger 25]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 22 2003,19:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ Mar. 22 2003,20:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Al Jazeera live feed is showing lots of apparently civillian bodies and building wreckage right now. Warning - Graphic.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, according to Swedish media the coalition forces used some form of fragmentation bombs against Basra that killed over 50 civilians. I wonder if that was the artillery strike that Reuters et al were talking about yesteday?<span id='postcolor'>

Damn.

Lets see Washington explain this one.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Munger @ Mar. 22 2003,21:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Lets see Washington explain this one.  <span id='postcolor'>

There's a war on.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Mar. 22 2003,05:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 22 2003,04:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here's a short article from Jane's on the subject:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Jane's International Defence Review 7/1997, pg. 15:  

"IMPENETRABLE RUSSIAN TANK ARMOUR STANDS UP TO EXAMINATION  

"Claims that the armour of Russian tanks is effectively impenetrable, made on the basis of test carried out in Germany (see IDR 7/1996, p.15), have been supported by comments made following tests in the US.  

"Speaking at a conference on Future Armoured Warfare in London in May, IDR's Pentagon correspondent Leland Ness explained that US tests involved firing trials of Russian-built T-72 tanks fitted with Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armour (ERA). In contrast to the original, or 'light', type of ERA which is effective only against shaped charge jets, the 'heavy' Kontakt-5 ERA is also effective against the long-rod penetrators of APFSDS tank gun projectiles.  

"When fitted to T-72 tanks, the 'heavy' ERA made them immune to the DU penetrators of M829 APFSDS, fired by the 120 mm guns of the US M1 Abrams tanks, which are among the most formidable of current tank gun projectiles.  

<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

Damn. That's some serious stuff. Of course, I imagine the limiting factor is the cost- no way Russia can afford to outfit alot of tanks with something like this. But if they could (or if they got it in their heads to sell it around...), then... well, I don't really need to say it, do I?<span id='postcolor'>

A bit offtopic, but...

Exchange rate is approximately 31.38 per US Dollar, so according to that the Russians spent approximately 25.5 Billion on defense last year

[theavonlady 2]

Can anyone confirm NY cops had to fire rubber bullets against protesters in NYC?

[hellfish6 7]

Just saw some great footage of Marines from C/3-7 in combat outside of Basra on CNN. Lots of TOW, AT4, SMAW firings, blowing up T-55s, etc. Last image was of a Challenger 2 (with a very strange armor skirt) pulling up next to some HMMWVs.

[pathfinder 0]

Also seeing reports of Iraq soldiers opening fire and killing reporters.....doh never mind already said.

[ralphwiggum 6]

no, but won't be surprised given these incidents

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In one demonstration Thursday in San Francisco, a disturbance broke out when a protester tried to grab a police officer's gun. One officer was injured in the scuffle and possibly has a broken leg, Tully said.

Video footage from local television stations showed a man who managed to drive his minivan into a pedestrian-clogged intersection getting beaten by several protesters. His vehicle was then looted.

<span id='postcolor'>

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/21/sprj.irq.protests/index.html

[FSPilot 0]

Is there any way to translate that al jazeera channel into english?

and I havent heard anything about ttwo pilots ejecting yet.  i doubt it since it would be all over the TV especially since there are so many correspondents with cameras in baghdad right now

i did see a SAM earlier.  it was fascinating seeing the thing slowly lift off then zoom overhead and explode when it got near its target.  i've seen it so many times in flight sims it just fascinated me seeing it on tape

edit - now showing what looks like plane wreckage on al jazeera, dont know though, could of been a lot of things.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 22 2003,21:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Can anyone confirm NY cops had to fire rubber bullets against protesters in NYC?<span id='postcolor'>

In Switzerland they used tear gas against demonstrators. Dunno about NY.

Just saw a report from a Swedish (well, Norwegian really)correspondent in Baghdad who commented on the casualties after visiting hospitals. Apparently a lot of people (about 250) were injured from shrapnel and fragmentation from the bombing, but very few were killed (3 so far, 10 are in critical condition). A lot of children were among the injured but the injuries were mostly light.

All government buildings were evacuated long ago so few people got hurt.