JAP 2 Posted February 17, 2003 Got a question i hope you guys can help me with. It s maybe a little offtopic but then again very ontopic Didn t wanna start a new topic about it and i know the brains are in this topic ( at least about this subject ) I m transforming a co op of mine to use the bas rangers/deltas. It s a squad getting inserted into enemy territory and have to 1.stakeout airport 2.destroy a number of scuds all over the island 3.do some hush hush stuff ( few storytwists ) My question. ( cause i m an absolute military noob ) 1.Should i use rangers or deltas for this ( i think it s rangers but wanna be sure ) 2.How big should a squad be for a mission like that 3.Typical loadout for them 4.Insertion method ( they insert from LSD with BH now .. ) Would be cool if you could answer these questions and make it a little more realistic. Cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> In real ive used a FN MAG and that one is quite long, the basemodel i made was from a dutch army FN MAG then i edited it to a M240B but didnt make it smaller... so its my fault <span id='postcolor'> Aha, it's an M240B. I thought that it was supposed to be a M240G. In that case it should be much shorter That explains it. The strange part on the lower part of the barrel that I could not figure out what it was - it's a thermal shield. The MAG does not have it so I was a bit surprised there. It looked like a part of the housing so it seemed waay to long and too thin. Thanks Vixer for clearing it up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SGTKOPP 0 Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Feb. 17 2003,20:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Miles Teg @ Feb. 17 2003,19:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">By the way, anyone here ever fire a SAW with a scope.  I've fired the regular SAW and it shakes around like a bumble-bee. I can't imagine trying to keep a target in the scope with it shaking so much unless it was just for short bursts.<span id='postcolor'> I've fired the ksp90 (aka Minimi aka SAW) many times and I am just as puzzled as you on what use optics would do. I think however that I have seen a picture of a SAW with a scope. But again, I can't see of what use it would be  Talking about machineguns: the M240 (aka ksp58 aka FN MAG) - there is something very wrong with it. It's too thin and too long, the housing is too small and there are parts missing! Real FN MAG: BAS FN MAG: Other then that, I would like to say that this is a very good addon. Keep up the good work BAS! <span id='postcolor'> M240b looks real to me I have fire the real thing and it is long skinny and heavy Also with the saw if you use proper bursting 6-9rd burst a sight is usable all the saw is is an automatic beefuped M16 It is quit easy to fire and control Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SGTKOPP 0 Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Feb. 17 2003,21:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Aha, it's an M240B. I thought that it was supposed to be a M240G. In that case it should be much shorter <span id='postcolor'> M240G is the coax for M1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SGTKOPP @ Feb. 17 2003,21:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Feb. 17 2003,21:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Aha, it's an M240B. I thought that it was supposed to be a M240G. In that case it should be much shorter <span id='postcolor'> M240G is the coax for M1<span id='postcolor'> No, that's the M240C M240G M240C From the horse's mouth, so to say Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SGTKOPP @ Feb. 17 2003,21:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">all the saw is is an automatic beefuped M16<span id='postcolor'> Um..not quite so. They are completely different weapons. The only thing that they have in common is the caliber. If you want to say that the Minimi (SAW) is similar to something, it's the FNC 80 (AK5) : Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VXR 9 Posted February 17, 2003 lol in the first place my model was a FN MAg then i edited it to a M240G then edited it again to a M240B the M240G before edit to M240B Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eviscerator 0 Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Feb. 17 2003,21:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SGTKOPP @ Feb. 17 2003,21:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">all the saw is is an automatic beefuped M16<span id='postcolor'> Um..not quite so. They are completely different weapons. The only thing that they have in common is the caliber. If you want to say that the Minimi (SAW) is similar to something, it's the FNC 80 (AK5) : <span id='postcolor'> I'm not too sure but i think he means in function and the way it acts (recoil), the SAW actually replaced 2 full auto M16A1's in the US Squads when it was introduced, also from what ive been told by one of our advisors/co producer (a serving staff sergeant in the US Army) the recoil is not that high Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m16a2m203 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Just wanted to say thanks for all the hard work. This ones a keeper for my hard drive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.argus. 0 Posted February 17, 2003 One little thing I find a bit odd, the M249 SPW has an ACOG, but the the M240 and M249 does not!? I mean, the latter two both have almost twice the effective range of the SPW, so why no ACOG? Great addon btw. And is it just me or does the M24s bolt cycle waaay too fast? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LandShark-AL 0 Posted February 17, 2003 I don't know if any one has posted this but the scope on the M24 will not zoom.Is this an over sight or bug or is it just a fixed power scope.I was just thinking the zoom would be nice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VXR 9 Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (.argus. @ Feb. 17 2003,22:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One little thing I a bit odd, the M249 SPW has an ACOG, but the the M240 and M249 does not!? I mean, the latter two both have almost twice the effective range of the SPW, so why no ACOG? Great addon btw.<span id='postcolor'> im not sure but the Rangers dont use the sights on their M240Bs. i got to double check that with Damocles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eviscerator 0 Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (.argus. @ Feb. 17 2003,22:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One little thing I a bit odd, the M249 SPW has an ACOG, but the the M240 and M249 does not!? I mean, the latter two both have almost twice the effective range of the SPW, so why no ACOG? Great addon btw.<span id='postcolor'> The M249 SPW is a exclusively a special ops weapon, who have lots of access to the ACOG and many other sights, although the rangers would probably normally mount reflex scopes (as it is their standard issue scope), the M240 probably has too much recoil when not on a tripod for a sight to be effective, the other M249 is an old PIP version that we put in for people wanting to make older era missions (i wont point out the obvious) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.argus. 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Um, I thought the SPW was made specifically for MOUT? I don't think any sane branch within the special forces would use the SPW for open desert warfare. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eviscerator 0 Posted February 17, 2003 As far as i know most special forces have completely replaced their M249 PIP and PARA's with M249 SPW and MK 46 Mod 0's (Mk 46 is navy), but Damocles (our teams co-producer and a big advisor to the project) would be able to give a more definate answer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Vixer @ Feb. 17 2003,22:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">im not sure but the Rangers dont use the sights on their M240Bs. i got to double check that with Damocles<span id='postcolor'> I think that you can be sure of that. The recoil of the MAG is far stronger then the one of the Minimi. And I would never mount a scope on a Minimi.. but I guess not everybody is in agreement on that But hey, check your US source. I'm all confused by the American designations of weapons so as far as I know there might be a M240Q-XT-AGFAS34.64-A3 that has a scope Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallenPaladin 0 Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Feb. 17 2003,23:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... as I know there might be a M240Q-XT-AGFAS34.64-A3 that has a scope <span id='postcolor'> Hehehe, that sounds almost like my Windows serial Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.argus. 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Well, those fellows in Afghanistan are using scopes on the M249: http://www4.aixgaming.com/opend....n06.jpg The Canadians have it as standard on their C9A1. Scope mounted on the M240(yeah, i know on tri pod): http://www4.aixgaming.com/opend....206.jpg Here not even mounted on tripod: http://www4.aixgaming.com/opend....e16.jpg Same: http://www4.aixgaming.com/opend....101.jpg M249 with scope: http://www4.aixgaming.com/opend....102.jpg I'll see if I find more. http://www4.aixgaming.com/opend....102.jpg I think we can safely say that they use scopes on the M249 SAW and M240G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dkraver 1 Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Eviscerator @ Feb. 17 2003,22:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm not too sure but i think he means in function and the way it acts (recoil), the SAW actually replaced 2 full auto M16A1's in the US Squads when it was introduced, also from what ive been told by one of our advisors/co producer (a serving staff sergeant in the US Army) the recoil is not that high<span id='postcolor'> I would have to agree about the recoil on the saw. I have done a 100meters standing shoulder burst shooting and 90% of the shots was in a area the size of a dinner plate. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the M240 probably has too much recoil when not on a tripod for a sight to be effective<span id='postcolor'> </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (Vixer @ Feb. 17 2003,22:42) im not sure but the Rangers dont use the sights on their M240Bs. i got to double check that with Damocles I think that you can be sure of that. The recoil of the MAG is far stronger then the one of the Minimi. And I would never mount a scope on a Minimi.. but I guess not everybody is in agreement on that<span id='postcolor'> I know its not the fn mag aka m240, but try looking at the pictures at this site. Its the newest upgrade/standard for the MG3 in the danish army. It features the possibility to attach Elcan day and night optical sights. From my own experience i know that the MG3 have a quite a recoil and since both the MG3 and the FN mag are 7.62 nato i would think they are more or less the same, but cant be sure since i havent tried the FN mag. Also i would say that a optical sight like the elcan(not scopes there's a diffence) would improve the aim since the light MG's like the MG3 and the FN Mag arent made to be fired with the trigger pressed until you have to load a new belt unless they are installed in a tripod. They are made for short burst fire because of the recoil. And with the right training a burst of 3-5 shot will have have 1-3 hits if you aim right. Which will be improved with the optical sight, since its only used to find the target because when you fire it wont have any use anymore because of the shaking. This with both iron sights and optical sights. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SGTKOPP 0 Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Feb. 17 2003,20:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Miles Teg @ Feb. 17 2003,19:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">By the way, anyone here ever fire a SAW with a scope.  I've fired the regular SAW and it shakes around like a bumble-bee. I can't imagine trying to keep a target in the scope with it shaking so much unless it was just for short bursts.<span id='postcolor'> I've fired the ksp90 (aka Minimi aka SAW) many times and I am just as puzzled as you on what use optics would do. I think however that I have seen a picture of a SAW with a scope. But again, I can't see of what use it would be  Talking about machineguns: the M240 (aka ksp58 aka FN MAG) - there is something very wrong with it. It's too thin and too long, the housing is too small and there are parts missing! Real FN MAG: BAS FN MAG: Other then that, I would like to say that this is a very good addon. Keep up the good work BAS! <span id='postcolor'> looks the same to me good job BAS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.argus. 0 Posted February 17, 2003 dkraver, the Germans used optics on their MG42s during WW2. And that for the even more powerful 7.92 Mauser. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SGTKOPP 0 Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Feb. 17 2003,23:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">American designations of weapons so as far as I know there might be a M240Q-XT-AGFAS34.64-A3 that has a scope <span id='postcolor'> Jealous huh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (dkraver @ Feb. 17 2003,23:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also i would say that a optical sight like the elcan(not scopes there's a diffence) would improve the aim since the light MG's like the MG3 and the FN Mag arent made to be fired with the trigger pressed until you have to load a new belt unless they are installed in a tripod.<span id='postcolor'> Recoil is the least reason why you can't fire long salvos. The barrel gets heated quickly. As a rule of thumb we had (for the MAG) to fire in bursts the length as it takes you to say "one beer" (in Swedish of course ). This is something that would be nice to get implemented in OFP machineguns - barrel heating. There is no way in hell you can fire off 200 rounds continuously IRL. You would melt the barrel. It should not be too hard to do through some scripting... Now as for the scopes: This is not a scope, it's a red-dot sight as far as I can see. And that is not surprising, without magnification optics function just as good as iron sights. It's magnification that screws it up if you have considerable recoil. I'm still very sceptical about using a scope on a Minimi. I have fired that gun many times and I can't comperhend how a manifying scope could possibly work. I could of course be wrong, but I simply don't see how it is possible. Edit: Unless it is tripod-mounted Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.argus. 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Yeah, after looking a bit more carefully then I think I agree with you about that being an aimpoint. BUT the C9A1 does use an Elcan C79 scope, no doubt at all: http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-c9a1.htm And, take a look at the last pic I posted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eviscerator 0 Posted February 17, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Feb. 18 2003,00:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (dkraver @ Feb. 17 2003,23:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also i would say that a optical sight like the elcan(not scopes there's a diffence) would improve the aim since the light MG's like the MG3 and the FN Mag arent made to be fired with the trigger pressed until you have to load a new belt unless they are installed in a tripod.<span id='postcolor'> Recoil is the least reason why you can't fire long salvos. The barrel gets heated quickly. As a rule of thumb we had (for the MAG) to fire in bursts the length as it takes you to say "one beer" (in Swedish of course ). This is something that would be nice to get implemented in OFP machineguns - barrel heating. There is no way in hell you can fire off 200 rounds continuously IRL. You would melt the barrel. It should not be too hard to do through some scripting... Now as for the scopes: This is not a scope, it's a red-dot sight as far as I can see. And that is not surprising, without magnification optics function just as good as iron sights. It's magnification that screws it up if you have considerable recoil. I'm still very sceptical about using a scope on a Minimi. I have fired that gun many times and I can't comperhend how a manifying scope could possibly work. I could of course be wrong, but I simply don't see how it is possible. Edit: Unless it is tripod-mounted <span id='postcolor'> Various FN Minimi/Mag 58 Variants using magnification scopes: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
