[Looking for ideas] AI commanding improvement project

[scimitar 221]

Leopard20 is working on a solution that will hopefully change the way that the AI interact with buildings by creating his own AI system. It seems a bit ambitious but the work he's done so far is pretty impressive.

 

 

Something I'd like to see and almost certainly never will in A3 (or possibly ever in the Arma series) is buildings that are partially destructible that would allow the use of breaching charges to create new entrances. I once read comments in a forum thread by a Russian VV MVD veteran of the First Chechen War. He said that in Grozny they cleared whole blocks of buildings by creating their own entrances with explosives and then tossing grenades into each room to clear it. If they encountered resistance, they would withdraw from the building and use thermobaric grenades or charges to kill anyone inside.

 

 

[nkenny 1051]

@kju

 

Stance and combat modes
I mention stance because in combination with the cover system present in Arma3 you will get a reasonable combatant. Stance -- not necessarily fully dynamic -- is something which could fit within the 'combat mode' packages you've described above. 

With that said, toggling group stances is something one can do with reasonable ease through the command menu. Specifically the old one, i.e., the Operation Flashpoint era one which is hidden behind the quick-menu.  Just press the correct button. 

Persistent menu options
That is the context in which I mention the '6 action menu'. Press 6 and a list of available actions will be shown. The problem is that this list is populated with a mess of options. There is no system and absolutely no persistence. 

In the stress of combat, it would be convenient to be able to quickly press, F2 (Soldier) - 6 (menu) - 1 (treat self), to make the AI treat itself.  Key being that option 1 is _always_ the same. It is consistent.  This also removes the need to walk over to the AI and use the 'quick' menu with its sometimes annoyingly fluid options. 

Retreat
I have experimented quite a bit with ways of getting the AI to break off combat. Most of the time it is possible to disable various AI features, but if the currentCommand is 'ATTACK', the only reliable way I've found is to remove that unit from the group then re-add it. Cumbersome to say the least. 

For context: https://github.com/nk3nny/LambsDanger/blob/master/addons/wp/functions/fnc_taskAssault.sqf

Building interaction
I've spent a fair amount of time getting AI into and out of buildings with LAMBS AI.  What I mean when I brainstorm a better user interface is a system which marries easily to the existing one. 

Select one unit and it will render the exact building position the AI will seek.  Select many, and it will still only show one. The other units will mill uselessly about.  Idea: Have the accompanying units instead move to the next nearest defined buildingPos. 

Simple. Easy. Intuitive and useful. 

 

Suppression
The interface is to select a unit, point at something, press alt, scrolling down, all while avoiding looking at the wrong thing, selecting the wrong action, and so on. Hardly ideal. 

 

I do agree that conceiving of a better system is not so easy. The benefit of having a system by which a timer (however crude) could be defined is that often a single burst of suppressive fire is insufficient to let the AI move forward.  Often a continuous volley of two or three is required. If the player is part of the maneuvering element, he or she will often choose a path of concealment-- which precisely makes it impossible to use the 'quick' interface. 

 

I do not agree that suppression is ineffective. Quite the contrary. While less so against players, AIs under suppression suffer dramatic drops in accuracy: https://www.nopryl.no/smfprod/index.php?topic=6908.msg88120#msg88120
also: 

 

Misunderstandings
Perhaps I am misunderstanding the type of feedback or scope of project you are working on. I was conceiving this as a expansion or modification of the existing 'quick command' menu and the background 'Operation Flashpoint' styled one. 

Cheers, 
Ken

[First Sea Lord Kiwi 54]

On 2/25/2020 at 6:33 PM, nkenny said:

@kju

 

Stance and combat modes
I mention stance because in combination with the cover system present in Arma3 you will get a reasonable combatant. Stance -- not necessarily fully dynamic -- is something which could fit within the 'combat mode' packages you've described above. 

With that said, toggling group stances is something one can do with reasonable ease through the command menu. Specifically the old one, i.e., the Operation Flashpoint era one which is hidden behind the quick-menu.  Just press the correct button. 

So with the stance, I would like to see weapons lowered like they are in "relaxed mode" but have the ability to use formations. When AI are relaxed, they only do ranger files. Patrolling usually has formations involved and you don't have your weapon raised 100% of the time. 

[Storm Rider 17]

On regard to vehicles, in special armored vehicles like tanks, apcs and ifvs, my opinion is that it's useless and very cumbersome to display or even to exist all the AI crew members of all the vehicles in a platoon. Perhaps it would work better, or at least work to virtualize the AI and make vehicles behave as single entities. Perhaps this way a platoon of tanks can, after 20 years of OPF and Arma, finally drive and fight in formation.

[Storm Rider 17]

On 2/26/2020 at 2:33 AM, nkenny said:

@kju

 

Building interaction
I've spent a fair amount of time getting AI into and out of buildings with LAMBS AI.  What I mean when I brainstorm a better user interface is a system which marries easily to the existing one. 

Select one unit and it will render the exact building position the AI will seek.  Select many, and it will still only show one. The other units will mill uselessly about.  Idea: Have the accompanying units instead move to the next nearest defined buildingPos. 

Simple. Easy. Intuitive and useful. 

 

 

 

 

I like your ideas, but I'm still concerned if it would look and act convincingly. Take the videos below as an example. Do you think that it would be possible to get the AI to autonomously behave and act like the videos below?

 

 

[nkenny 1051]

@Storm Rider
Not without a complete makeover of Arma3's animation and pathfinding system.  Especially as the pathfinding ties into formations.  Can't do much about the first two, the third, well. I am exploring things. 

-k