Carry a cap gun and win a trip to jail

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You should aks yourself why that is. It's because both the robber is afraid (since he can very well get shot) and the victim is afraid (since the robber might very well shoot him). This kind of fear leads to that criminal become more brutal and the people arm themselves more to counter that brutality. The robber will then become even more brutal as the threat to his life is greater. It is an endless spiral of violence and fear. It has to stop somewhere. Why not by the citizens disarming themselves. Sure, it will be easier to rob you at first, but no lifes would be lost. A good police force can then apperhend the criminals and put them behind bars, reducing crime.<span id='postcolor'>

but at the same time wouldn`t more crimes be commited becuase there is such little resistance unless we turned the UK into a police state where u may might be safer but have no freedoms.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you pose no threat to a robber then he most likely won't harm you.<span id='postcolor'>

Pure theory, that's all you seem to have.

If a guy ever breaks into my house with a weapon of any kind, I will try what Denoir thinks will work.

I will calmly explain to the criminal that I will not draw my firearm because that would only escalate the spiral of violence and fear. I will also tell him that he is a victim of society and his social surroundings. Then I will give him all of my things and we will both be safe and happy.

[sarcasm] I'm moving to Sweden![/sarcasm]

Tyler

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Jan. 11 2003,09:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you pose no threat to a robber then he most likely won't harm you.<span id='postcolor'>

Pure theory, that's all you seem to have.

If a guy ever breaks into my house with a weapon of any kind, I will try what Denoir thinks will work.

I will calmly explain to the criminal that I will not draw my firearm because that would only escalate the spiral of violence and fear. I will also tell him that he is a victim of society and his social surroundings. Then I will give him all of my things and we will both be safe and happy. <span id='postcolor'>

No that wouldnt be quite how it would work. There would be a government enforced ban on using firearms for protection. Your gun would be locked up in a time delayed safe preventing you from accessing it. Over time burglars will realize that there is no threat to them. So he will take all your things without hurting you. Then the police will catch him and he will spend time in prison realising that crime doesn't pay.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">[sarcasm] I'm moving to Sweden![/sarcasm]

<span id='postcolor'>

Ok, Tyler, you tell me, what is the difference. Why do American citizens feel that they need guns for protection while Swedish citizens don't. Why are there many armed house robberies in the US while it is very rare in Sweden? Why do American banks have armed security guards, while we don't?

I mean Sweden is no utopian society, we have our criminals too. They generally don't kill people however. And they get caught most of the time.

What's the difference? Sweden has had a far more violent history then USA, so it can't be that. We have a lot of guns too, so it can't be that either. So, what do you think makes that difference?

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Then the police will catch him <span id='postcolor'>

LOL, that's wishfull thinking.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So he will take all your things without hurting you.<span id='postcolor'>

Your joking, right?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why do American citizens feel that they need guns for protection<span id='postcolor'>

Do they? My guns are for target shooting, but if I happen to need them for defence, then so be it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So, what do you think makes that difference?<span id='postcolor'>

That's a good question, what do you think? The U.S. of 50 years ago is nothing like it is today. Guns have always been easy to get in the U.S. but there wasn't always high crime.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

I hope so.  I hate the death penalty.  It's one thing I really disagree with Bush about.<span id='postcolor'>

Thank god, finally someone who agrees with me on that...

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok Denoir, I sense some hostility there. Value of human life does have meaning to me, but I don't agree that its equal to everyone. Before calling me names can you tell me why a serial killers life has any value? Why is it so important to keep them alive? Another example, a lonely homeless person on the street is struck down by a car and is killed. No he didn't deserve to die, but on the other hand who's going to care? No one knew him, is his life important?, what value does it have?

<span id='postcolor'>

I am shocked... but as usual, i respect your opinion so i won't call you any names... Here's what i think...

Most of the time there's a reason why serial killers do naughty stuff, a lot of them have had a horrible life full of traumas and shit like that, others are just total lunatics...

Anyway, these people shouldn't be judged, the best thing we can do is try to help them, no don't kill them, it's not always their faulth that they kill people. As i said, you cannot say: "he deserves to die" when you do not know what exactly happened before he started killing, maybe his parents abused him his whole life. Stuff like that happens a lot, these people are just unlucky that their life sucked so much and that they totally lost control, instead of killing them, we should help them.

Don't look at them as animals, look at them as normal people where something went wrong in their life...

About the homeless guy: You say that if no one cares, his life is not important. When whole your family dies i have the right to shoot a bullet through your head, cuz no one cares about you, right? Your life is as important as the life of the homeless guy, i don't care about you so you're gonna die.

What you are saying kinda reminds me of the great rich people abusing the poor people a long time ago here in Europe...

Poor people are worthless, they deserve to die cuz no one cares about them...

EXCUSE ME?

Sorry man, but if you really believe this then i sure hope you have no guns.

Every life is the same, every person is the same, no life is worth more than any other, the life of a president is worth as much as the life of a homeless guy.

I can't believe this... i'm gonna lie down a bit... as i said, i am rather shocked by what you just said...

And no, i'm not bullshitting, i am shocked...

[cybrid 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">About the homeless guy:  You say that if no one cares, his life is not important.  When whole your family dies i have the right to shoot a bullet through your head, cuz no one cares about you, right? Your life is as important as the life of the homeless guy, i don't care about you so you're gonna die.

What you are saying kinda reminds me of the great rich people abusing the poor people a long time ago here in  Europe...

Poor people are worthless, they deserve to die cuz no one cares about them...<span id='postcolor'>

The difference is that I have a job, a home, I go to school, and I know alot of people that would be severly upset if I was killed. Also, I have have more or less a positive contribution to society and have never been arrested.

About the serial killers. From what I learned in psychology class most serial killers are sociopaths or even psycopaths. Sociopaths have absoulutly no remorse for their actions and have very little fear of anything, and psycopaths take it one step further and actually gain pleasure out of hurting people/animals. This is caused by a chemical inbalance in the brain that can never fully be cured. You say we need to help them for some reason, why its? Can anyone here tell me why such a person should be kept alive, or why their lives have any value? Its simply destroying an enemy that is a threat to the lives of decent good people.

Is it just because thats what you've heard your entire life, that everyones equal and its so deeply pounded into you that you wouldn't dare consider thinking anything else?

Thats where I'm different, I have a tremendous ability to resist propaganda. Instead I like to step back and look at the world logically, I could care less what society tries to force me to think.

Not trying to come of as hostile, but I can't understand why thats so shocking.

[DarkLight 0]

6--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cybrid @ Jan. 10 2003,186)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The difference is that I have a job, a home, I go to school, and I know alot of people that would be severly upset if I was killed. Also, I have have more or less a positive contribution to society and have never been arrested.

<span id='postcolor'>

Could be, but that doesn't make your life worth more than any other life...

A homeless guy is a person, just like you, okay, in our society they aren't important and actually they are more annoying than helpful.  But they are also living beings and they have the right to live their life.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">About the serial killers. From what I learned in psychology class most serial killers are sociopaths or even psycopaths. Sociopaths have absoulutly no remorse for their actions and have very little fear of anything, and psycopaths take it one step further and actually gain pleasure out of hurting people/animals. This is caused by a chemical inbalance in the brain that can never fully be cured. You say we need to help them for some reason, why its?<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, if it is 100% sure that a man is a serial killer who is totally evil then we should not kill him.  I've said this before and i'll say it again.  Put them in jail, give them just enough food, and let them work from morning till night for the rest of their days.  They get 1 day each week to rest so they can start fresh the next day.  Let them do stuff that helps our society, use the money that they 'earn' for good things.

This way, the killers will stay alive, they'll work hard so it won't be fun for them, they'll do the dirty jobs, and our society gets better because we earn some nice cash.

I know that this is hard to do, because there are so much killers but it's a nice idea...

What i mentioned in my last post are people who got mistreated in their youth, i don't think these people should be allowed to get executed, same for people with mental problems.  

It's not their fault...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is it just because thats what you've heard your entire life, that everyones equal and its so deeply pounded into you that you wouldn't dare consider thinking anything else?

<span id='postcolor'>

I do not like people who talk about me without knowing me in real life, i'd appreciate it if you wouldn't do that.  Not only because i don't like it, but also because what you say is wrong.  No one has ever told me that every life is equal, it's just my opinion.  So please, next time, don't say stuff where you don't know anything about...

Actually i like thinking other stuff than everyone else, i notice a lot that many people believe something or are very sure about something while i am the only person that disagrees.

I'll never never NEVER change my opinion, i'll never believe something "just because i wouldn't dare to consider thinking anything else".  

My opinion is my opinion, just like your opinion is your opinion.  I live in a country where everyone can believe what he/she wants to believe as long as it doesn't harm anyone and i am damn proud that i have my own opinion and that i'm not afraid to hide it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thats where I'm different, I have a tremendous ability to resist propaganda. Instead I like to step back and look at the world logically, I could care less what society tries to force me to think.

<span id='postcolor'>

I never trust propaganda, instead, i like to step back, and look at the world logically, i could care less what society tries to force me to think...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not trying to come of as hostile, but I can't understand why thats so shocking.

<span id='postcolor'>

I just find it hard to understand that you really believe that some people are better than others.

I got a little question for you, just out of curiousity, i know you'll think that i'm trying to make you angry but i AM NOT.

It's just something i'd like to know, so please whatever you do, don't get angry, just say yes or no and type your opinion please.

Are you a racist?

Please don't get angry, it's just a question like: DO you like apples?

No bad intentions AT ALL.

Just cuz i'd like to know it...

[FSPilot 0]

Taking guns away from law-abiding citizens will only give criminals a monopoly on guns. And don't tell me that criminals wont be threatened if they think their victim doesn't have a gun. Most people in the US don't have guns, and there's still crime.

Lets look at this news article again...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But apparently not. Since the Government's "total ban" five years ago, there are more and more guns being used by more and more criminals in more and more crimes.<span id='postcolor'>

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Jan. 11 2003,14:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cybrid @ Jan. 10 2003,18<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The difference is that I have a job, a home, I go to school, and I know alot of people that would be severly upset if I was killed. Also, I have have more or less a positive contribution to society and have never been arrested.

<span id='postcolor'>

Could be, but that doesn't make your life worth more than any other life...

A homeless guy is a person, just like you, okay, in our society they aren't important and actually they are more annoying than helpful. But they are also living beings and they have the right to live their life<span id='postcolor'>

And I would like to add, they are one of us, they are exactly the same, only their life took a different turn. They are not genetically impure or inferior. For instance a homeless person in Canada is still a Canadian, who is homeless, no worse. A serial killer in Canada, is still a canadian, just like Timothy McVeigh and Muhammad are just fellow Americans.

They are not someone else, they are part of our society, a part that needs to be taken care of through taxes. (Ie: not by odd individuals giving change to the homeless, and odd individuals going hunting with weapons for criminals) There has to be a viable system, and it's not that difficult to implement, it just costs a lot and the voice of the poor and criminals is not heard on election day.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Jan. 11 2003,21:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Taking guns away from law-abiding citizens will only give criminals a monopoly on guns.<span id='postcolor'>

No, the police will have guns. As part of a civilized society we agree on delegating things to others, including the protection on property.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And don't tell me that criminals wont be threatened if they think their victim doesn't have a gun. Most people in the US don't have guns, and there's still crime.

<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, there will be crime of course, but there would be less killings. I have explained already about five times the idea behind it, so I can't be bothered to repeat it again.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Lets look at this news article again...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But apparently not. Since the Government's "total ban" five years ago, there are more and more guns being used by more and more criminals in more and more crimes.<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

That article is shite propaganda and I don't give it any credibility.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Jan. 12 2003,03:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, the police will have guns. As part of a civilized society we agree on delegating things to others, including the protection on property.<span id='postcolor'>

The police probably won't get there quick enough to stop the criminal from using his gun.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, there will be crime of course, but there would be less killings. I have explained already about five times the idea behind it, so I can't be bothered to repeat it again.<span id='postcolor'>

Again looking at the article from the UK. MORE crimes, MORE guns, MORE criminals.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That article is shite propaganda and I don't give it any credibility.<span id='postcolor'>

Of course you don't, it disagrees with you.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Jan. 11 2003,22:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Again looking at the article from the UK.  MORE crimes, MORE guns, MORE criminals.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That article is shite propaganda and I don't give it any credibility.<span id='postcolor'>

Of course you don't, it disagrees with you.<span id='postcolor'>

The article is an editorial, an opinion. Here is another article that says just the opposite. Here is yet another article. I can find as many as you wish.

[FSPilot 0]

But I don't give any of those articles credibility.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Jan. 11 2003,23:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But I don't give any of those articles credibility. <span id='postcolor'>

Which is exactly my point. You can't take someones opinion and take is as a fact.

[FSPilot 0]

That's the problem though. The million mom march is going to be just as opinionated as that article.

[Badgerboy 0]

I saw bowling for Colombine yesterday. It was a bit of an eye opener.

It goes into the psyche of the US, and their mentality toward firearms compared to a similar country such as Canada.

Canada - 30 mill population - 7 million weapons. (High gun to person ratio)

Canada - Gun related murders in a year - 258 average

US - Gun related murders in a year - 11,267 average

So its not just a problem with weapons, its the entire mentality of the country.

I can happily say that my country has never suffered from children going on a school killing spree, or 6 year olds killing each other in coldblood. I wonder why that is?

If you fear everyone around you so much, go ahead, defend your home with an automatic weapon. Personally I just lock the door, it seems to work, and I have never heard anyone who's been mugged or had their home broken into by a armed criminal. Not even in the news.

There will be a hardcore of criminals with weapons there always will be. Forthat we havespecialist firearms units, who so far, have proven to be very successful.

[cybrid 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">are you a racist?<span id='postcolor'>

No, but there are some racial issues wich do bother me. I wouldn't care to talk about it here.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Canada - Gun related murders in a year - 258 average

US - Gun related murders in a year - 11,267 average

<span id='postcolor'>

If Canada's population was the same as the U.S.'s, then we would have just over 7000 murders with guns.

U.S. statistics count manslaughter as murder, so the U.S. number is out of proportion, plus the U.S. has lots more urban centres in which most crimes occur. Canada has 3, anymore than that would be a strech.

Bowling for Columbine is simply a left-wing propaganda film, but Mr.Moore made some good points about how the media spreads fear.

To anyone who shares my viewpoints about guns and society in general: don't bother arguing with Denoir, he is too stubborn. He will keep throwing idealistic rhetoric at you and try to convince you that societies that have lots of laws and big governments are somehow more 'civilised'.

I give up, his opinions are his own, so long as they don't affect the laws in my country, I won't care.

Tyler

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Jan. 12 2003,03:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To anyone who shares my viewpoints about guns and society in general: don't bother arguing with Denoir, he is too stubborn.  He will keep throwing idealistic rhetoric at you and try to convince you that societies that have lots of laws and big governments are somehow more 'civilised'.

I give up, his opinions are his own, so long as they don't affect the laws in my country, I won't care.  <span id='postcolor'>

It gives me pleasure knowing that Tyler lives in Canada where the liberals are in power. May he never move to America

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It gives me pleasure knowing that Tyler lives in Canada where the liberals are in power. May he never move to America <span id='postcolor'>

LOL.

I didn't vote for them, and if you lived here and knew what they have done to this country, then I'm sure you wouldn't vote for them either. Denoir, your military is better equipped than ours is. That's only one example.

I am keeping a move to the U.S. in my sights though.

Tyler

[cybrid 0]

Yeah I'm with assult on that one. But for some reason the Cnadian people will keep voting those liberal bastards in no matter how much they screw up.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Canadian people will keep voting those liberal bastards in no matter how much they screw up<span id='postcolor'>

Not Canadian, just people from Ontario and Quebec. The west is controlled by the Alliance.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Jan. 11 2003,21:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And I would like to add, they are one of us, they are exactly the same, only their life took a different turn.  They are not genetically impure or inferior.  For instance a homeless person in Canada is still a Canadian, who is homeless, no worse.  A serial killer in Canada, is still a canadian, just like Timothy McVeigh and Muhammad are just fellow Americans.

They are not someone else, they are part of our society, a part that needs to be taken care of through taxes.  (Ie: not by odd individuals giving change to the homeless, and odd individuals going hunting with weapons for criminals)  There has to be a viable system, and it's not that difficult to implement, it just costs a lot and the voice of the poor and criminals is not heard on election day.<span id='postcolor'>

You want to know why the poor little criminal's voice isn't heard on Election day? Because he committed a felony, and isn't allowed to vote any more.  Boo-hoo.

And as for capital punishment, I look at it in a different way.

If you kill over 100 people by blowing up a building full of innocent people, or if you participate in the premeditated shootings of over 20 people, then you have forfeited your right to live. You aren't like me. You aren't like my neighbors, or my fellow citizens. You are a fucking murderer, and (though I'm not a religious person) I feel that you should reap what you sow. And I think I am pretty easy-going about it, because I don't require that Timothy McVeigh die by being crushed by several tons of rubble, I just require that he is shuffled loose the mortal coil as painlessly as possible.

I don't fucking care if you had a hard life, or if mommy and daddy didn't hug you enough; my dad didn't even

know his father, and his mother dumped him with her grandparents and took off. Still, he never killed anyone because of it. A murderer isn't a victim of society, and by saying that he or she is is tantamount to saying that the murderer is not responsible for taking another life in cold blood.

I am a strong believer in taking responsibility for my own actions, and expect others to do the same. This is a source of annoyance when seeing news stories like the man who sued McDonald's for making him fat ("I didn't know that fat, deep-fried in fat, could make me fat!"), but it is downright infuriating to listen to a defense attorney blame their client's rape and murder of a 10-year old girl on their client's "rough childhood", instead of the fact that his client is one fucked up individual and deserves to, at the very least, spend life in prison sharing a cell with a guy named 'Bubba' who wants to get to know him better.

And despite all this, you want taxpayers to spend their lawfully attained paycheck on rehabilitating people who don't even deserve to live, much less living off of law-abiding citizens? That is pretty fucked up if you ask me, but then again I don't have a whole lot of pity for murderers. Their is a very simple way that I justify capital punishment; stay with me now, all you secular humanists out there, because this may be a little too simple for you to understand:

When you take someone's life in an act of murder, you forfeit your own right to live.

[cybrid 0]

Tex, I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm just not so good with words.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not Canadian, just people from Ontario and Quebec. The west is controlled by the Alliance.<span id='postcolor'>

To Shay