Looking for mig-29 expert.

[Partisan 0]

I hope your model will be much better that the already releasedone.

You can contact me, if you need some help, I can scan some nice pics from czech avionics-related books or just translate something for you from czech, slovak, polish, russian or german language, if needed. ICQ 140285662.

[Scorpio 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (peanuckle_00 @ Jan. 05 2003,17:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Will this model use the same engine sound as the F-15?<span id='postcolor'>

er...why would it?

[peanuckle_00 0]

The question is will it.

[peanuckle_00 0]

The question is will it. Not why? Alot of people said they didn't like the engine noise from the last one. I wnat to know if you're going with a new one. Don't get me booted for posting twice marine. It was an accident.

[Frisbee 0]

If you mean the way that it's silent inside it's a good uestion yeah,otherwise it is a stupid question

[peanuckle_00 0]

What do you expect me to do? Think of something to impress you with instead of asking what I want to ask? Honestly, do you want me to stop posting in this topic?

[Frisbee 0]

a) You mean the way that there's no internal sound in the F15 and you'd like to know : good question,I'd like to know that as well

b)You're asking if the sound is the complete same as the F15

Stupid is a big word,yeah,sorry about that (i prove that there are only stupid answers)

But is _is_ a strange one,you don't ask someone who's making a weapon if it has the same sound as the m16,most likely it'll be another one

Sorry for that rash answer,didn't think through what you could've meant.

[Partisan 0]

Slovak MiG.... nice, isn`t it??

[peanuckle_00 0]

Your options piss me off. Can i say that? Last post I promise.

[Frisbee 0]

I apologise for what I said,I try to understand what you exactly meant with 'same sound' and I piss you off?

[deadsoldier 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (peanuckle_00 @ Jan. 05 2003,17:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Marine you misquoted me, everyone knows it.    Will this model use the same engine sound as the F-15?<span id='postcolor'>

the reason i have a short fuse is because he asks questions like this, i only have short fuse withhim. any how...I will be a good sportsman and answer his very objective question.

No we wont us the F-15 sound. Several reasons:

1- Its an F-15 sound, and we are making a mig-29

2- Its an F-15 sound, and we are making a mig-29

3- Its an F-15 sound, and we are making a mig-29

I hope you understand one of them.

As for sound in cockpit, yes we fixed it, there is sound in mig-29 cockpit...so you will like it. And the mig-29 sound is less "rumbly" so its gentle on some ears. As for the model, yes it is very detailed and so far its 3400 faces. The F-15E was 4000 faces. This mig is more detailed..more perfect and looks fantastic. I was happy with my results. We would have posted some screen shots, but we decided to post only when we have something complete to show. So im very confident that the model i did is the closest to a mig than i have seen anywhere on the web, now whether its 3500 polys or 138,000 polys, its a differennt story. Im working hard to keep a balance between Details - Realisim - poly count - OFP limitations. Its more of a decision making problem. And we are doing fine so far.

We have researched the mig for months now, collection of a couple of thousand photos and diagrams, we know enugh about it, but i still want someone who knows it better then we do, so this person can see if we missed something. Just incase.

Reason we are doing a Czech paint scheme, simply ..us_marine just likes it too much. So we will do a german (West) and russian (east) paints. So far, im half way through painting the czech paint, i have the basics done, then i will add the little details, like parts, dirt/char and whatever my eye catches in those pictures and diagrams.

Flight charactiristics is my question to thje community.. Do u guys want the mig to fly:

1- Realisticly? same limitations in real life, same everything that could be implemented in OFP. Example, Correct corner speed , correct turn rate, correct climb rate.

2- Make it easy to handle and super manuverable like some jets that have comeout recently so that when you fly against your aponent in mp, all you have to do is pull the stick,and there goes your plane doing a 120 deg bank cobra manuover and blow your oponent out of the sky in less than 3 seconds?

cheers

[ale2999 0]

realistic flight physics!!!!! ty dead 4 ur time

[Scorpio 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (deadsoldier @ Jan. 06 2003,07:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No we wont us the F-15 sound. Several reasons:

1- Its an F-15 sound, and we are making a mig-29

2- Its an F-15 sound, and we are making a mig-29

3- Its an F-15 sound, and we are making a mig-29

I hope you understand one of them.<span id='postcolor'>

LOL.

[pzvg 0]

Realistic flight performance?

Hmmm, tough question on one hand realism is good,realism is God, all should bow before realism

OToh, the maps are a tad smaaaaaalll for a realistically performing jet to do anything except make guest appearances

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Partisan @ Jan. 03 2003,22:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The german is the best, they`ve just putted the great russian plane with the great NATO avionics together.<span id='postcolor'>

That's not really true, as the Germans mainly got early "A" models, a lot of which were later upgraded to "C" standards by the Russians. The avionics have not changed nearly as much as you seem to think. I believe they now have a GPS reciever, and _maybe_ better radios, but that's about it. Their engines have been downgraded by 10% to increase their service life and to work better with NATO jet fuel. They are also using mainly the same AA missiles they had during the Soviet era, which have been significantly upgraded. I'm also fairly certain the Luftwaffe isn't using Sidewinders on it's Migs, as one of the main reasons they kept them was the ability to launch Archers with the help of the helmet-mounted sight.

[miles teg 1]

0--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (deadsoldier @ Jan. 06 2003,070)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Flight charactiristics is my question to thje community.. Do u guys want the mig to fly:

1- Realisticly? same limitations in real life, same everything that could be implemented in OFP. Example, Correct corner speed , correct turn rate, correct climb rate.

2- Make it easy to handle and super manuverable like some jets that have comeout recently so that when you fly against your aponent in mp, all you have to do is pull the stick,and there goes your plane doing a 120 deg bank cobra manuover and blow your oponent out of the sky in less than 3 seconds?

cheers<span id='postcolor'>

It depends on what you mean by realistic.  The Mig-29 is an ultra-manueverable aircraft and I have yet to fly any aircraft in OFP that handles like a Mig-29 accept perhaps the G8 Tornado.  I DEFINITELY have not flow any jet in OFP that turns on a dime or that can do cobra maneuvers.  If you know of any please tell me.   The most maneuverable I've seen so far has been the Tornado and I don't think it's unrealistic at all.  It flys very very nicely though.  For example it doesn't stall when you turn...something that really pisses people as there isn't proper rudder control support in OFP airplanes (as far as I know) and most people who play OFP don't have fancy flight simulator controls for their computers.  

So please do #2, but not super unrealistic.  Just make it fly at least as well as the Tornado and I think it will allow the player to enjoy flying instead of worrying about spinning out of control and crashing all the time, or taking up the entire island of Nogova to make one turn.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[deadsoldier 0]

miles tag, thats your percetption of a manuverable plane. the tornado is unrealistic, the tornado isn;t a very maneverable plane. The mig is, but not that much as the tornado in OFP does. Your mexing up with your definitions of manuverablity, a maneverable plane is harder to fly in real life. My father and brother are pilots and have spoken to them tons of times about this subject, and me being a hardcore aviation fan am into this stuff my self, as u can tell that i choose to make planes for OFP even though their not realy usable fot he small islands, i just love flying too much.

The mig is manuverable, but it has limitations, if u doa loop in real life like theone the tornado does, you will put alteast 10 G's to the plane, and will stall the plane real fast as the angle of the attack is real high. in real life, planes dont have a turn radius of 75 meters!! i measured it for the tornado. This means if i stood in a field and a plane did a circle around me, it would be 37.5 meters away rom each direction. nopw dont tell me thats realistic LOL.

if you want an easy plane, sure , easy to fly, but thats VERY unrealistic considering OFP does a realy bad job in handeling flight dynamics. So the tornado is by far the most unrealistic plane , flight dynamic wise in OFP. if you apply the tornadoes flight dynamics to a Su-37, then we would say . yes its pretty close since the su-37 does some amazing things with its thrust vectors.

I never flew a real jet, but i did fly single engines prop planes. And i have watched every air showi can get to, and read about every subject that has to do with aviation, thats my hobby, and seeing how planes do a loop in less than 100 meters of hight is just plain silly.

So for this, we will either make it more realistic in OFP terms, or make it very user friendly which wil make it extremely unrealistic.

cheers

[TopCover 0]

not to just bitch at good addon makers, but a looping (when done correctly) isnt started necessarily with a high AoA or has G-rates that high for that matter

From level flight to jerking the stick all the way to your belly button: yes, Hi speed stall and blackout by G force

from level flight gently pulling the plane into a loop: low AoA and if followed up with the right moves, probably half that G force (which is still not very pleasant)

Remember, AoA is NOT the angle between the horizon and the horizontal axis of the wing is the angle between the airflow over the wings and that axis.

And it could be totally true, but i find it hard to believe that a Tornado couldnt make a looping!

but to get back on topic: a lil of both (realism/playability) if i wanted all the realism possible, i'll start playin a flightsim

L8R,

TopCover

[deadsoldier 0]

Top gun, what your telling is me stuff i already know, and its very basic stuff. Its not the point. The point is, the tornado has a turn radius of less than 100 meters..dont tell me it could be done in real life. The mig has turning radius of 350 m at a speed of 430 kts. thats about 800 kph. or 220 meters at speed of 220 kts., about 400 kph. Radius, not diameter. These readings are aroun 4 G's. A high G turn, u can push it down to 160 meters. The mig has a turn rate of 28 deg/ second compared to 26 deg/sec for an F-16, the latest block 50. So the mig has a respectable turn rate. But the tornado in OFP by far beats all these numbers!!! LOL

The corner speed of the mig is from 200-400. while f-16 is 300- 400. 400 would be best for it. The mig is superior in air at low speeds. Ask every pilot who flew the mig-29 or flew an F-16 against it. Nothing can beat the mig-29 at low speeds, thats why f-16 pilots prefere to engage at corner speed. They dont wanna risk loosing too much energy, cause the mig is not shy to climb behind the f-16 verticly if it had to. At high speeds, F-16 can take more G's than mig. But the point is, the G8 tornado is more maneverable and agile than the F-16, and the OFP engine does a bad job in handleing flight dynamics. cause at low speeds a plane can be manuverable..but as you speed ..its less manevasrable..in OFP.. the faster you are..the more manuverable itis!

i didn;t say the tornado cant loop. its like saying a plane cant fly. But try pulling a high G turn in it, you will be 180 degrees in less than a second. try it your self and see. Now this is plain silly. I would not like to see planes fly like that in OFP. hey we might as well give them unlimited ammo since its cool!! or give a great climb rate cause its cool too!!

Beleive me, playing with a tornado is not fun at all in a mp. the way the G8 tornado flys is a dream for every pilot, and will put the dogfight down to 3 seconds. All u have to do is pull up - "Tab" and fire.

cheers

[TopCover 0]

U guys really did some research eh?

I'll stop whining now and leave U guys working your magic.

BTW, you got any plans of incorporating the helmet-mounted sight and 45 deg. offset archer kills?

would be awesome to have a cockpit view where you can look around and have the "HUD"-info centered.

L8R,

and oh, its TopCOVER

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TopCover @ Jan. 06 2003,23:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">would be awesome to have a cockpit view where you can look around and have the "HUD"-info centered.<span id='postcolor'>

It dosen't work that way, the helmet mounted sight just has some simple symbology to indicate if a lock-on is achieved, it dosen't include the HUD info

[miles teg 1]

I understand your enthusiasm for realistic flight characteristics, but OFP is NOT a flight simulator.  If you want to make it difficult to fly then go ahead.  It really doesn't matter to me since I just want the planes as targets to shoot at for my Tornados and F15 addons.  Make them turn like crap and the Tornados and F15 addons will tear them up no problem.   Not much of a challenge but oh well. That's a pity because I was hoping for a East aircraft in OFP that would match the Tornado in terms of handling and maneuverability.  Yes I know in real life the Tornado is not as manueverable as a Mig-29, but the fact is that unless you get colorchanger to redo his Tornado's flight characteristics (something I think he should never do because it is a joy to fly) and you get everyone else who has made West aircraft to redo the handling characteristics of their aircraft then your Mig-29 will likely be outmatched badly at least if human players are flying against them.  

But in truth, all I care about is that they look nice and that the AI can take off and land in them without too many problems...oh and hopefully fire a missile or two if they get lucky and line up their sites on a West aircraft.  It would be nice if they flew well (at least as well as the Su-25 which handles a lot worse then the Tornado in my opinion).   As for making a turn within 100 meters, I have NEVER made a turn that tight in a tornado.  Maybe that's possible at very low speeds but I've never tried and I doubt many players in OFP would try doing that for fear of stalling and crashing.   I've also never seen an AI pilot make a turn like that.  Generally the AI seem to fly the Tornadoes in a very realistic manner much as I've seen similar planes flying at airshows.  

But it's up to you.   The fact of the matter is that the OFP game engine will not allow you to make a plane handle as it would in a dedicated flight simulator.   If you want to try anyways then go for it, but I don't think it will be an especially enjoyable plane to fly...and like I said, it will be like shooting ducks in a barrel for all the other Western fighter plane addons.  Best of luck.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[chaztheducky 0]

model should have total realism but flight dynamics should enphisize playability

[deadsoldier 0]

yeah i guess so, it makes no sense to make it realistic while all other plane addons are not. I think we will make it fly good and easy , and will give u a good plane to match any OFP plane in a dogfight. The model is looking great so far, so we will work on the flight dynamics to get the best fit, or best setup for the plane to fly real good, easy and to kick ass inthe sky.

cheers

[peanuckle_00 0]

Deadsoldier you should put in a lock on warning. And if you make a map in the cockpit, try to make sure it doesn't look like the island of everon but something more vague like a city map. Unless you can get the map in the middle to project the actual ground beneath you then that would be great.