Change death penalty to losing 50% of loot

[Dredd1973 3]

Hard core gamers will certainly disagree with this, but as a VERY casual player I feel the need to make a suggestion.

 

As a casual I play strictly for fun, when something ceases to be fun, I just don't play it. Another result of my being a casual is my K/D in shooters is anywhere between .50 and .62 depending on the game. In this game that translates to me actually making it out alive with basic loot only one in three matches, and I have never yet actually gotten the drop.

 

That said, only making it out with loot one in three matches combined with loosing everything when you die makes the grind incredible for the casual player. This is exacerbated by the fact that once you reach the max amount of materials for the next upgrade you cease accruing mats. It does me no good to get 915 mats when I die when I'm already maxed out at the 6000 for the next upgrade and that 915 mats just goes into the digital void because my counter can't go above the max for the next upgrade.

 

I propose that the death penalty be reduced to 50% of your loot going away with a RNG mechanic in place to randomly select what that 50% is comprised of. That way players who die more often than they live and / or get a kill can still feel like they're making progression.

 

Now, I'm not trying to convince hard cores to agree with me, I already know from other games and other forums that any conversation along those lines devolves into "GIT GUD" and "But a game should be fun" - already heard that. So, hard cores, just stay calm and realize that I'm making this post for the game developers to see, I'm not trying to convince you personally to be less hard core. Just realize some folks play strictly for fun, and still want to have fun even if they're not that great.

[Pyrit. 172]

10 hours ago, Dredd1973 said:

Hard core gamers will certainly disagree with this, but as a VERY casual player I feel the need to make a suggestion.

 

As a casual I play strictly for fun, when something ceases to be fun, I just don't play it. Another result of my being a casual is my K/D in shooters is anywhere between .50 and .62 depending on the game. In this game that translates to me actually making it out alive with basic loot only one in three matches, and I have never yet actually gotten the drop.

 

That said, only making it out with loot one in three matches combined with loosing everything when you die makes the grind incredible for the casual player. This is exacerbated by the fact that once you reach the max amount of materials for the next upgrade you cease accruing mats. It does me no good to get 915 mats when I die when I'm already maxed out at the 6000 for the next upgrade and that 915 mats just goes into the digital void because my counter can't go above the max for the next upgrade.

 

I propose that the death penalty be reduced to 50% of your loot going away with a RNG mechanic in place to randomly select what that 50% is comprised of. That way players who die more often than they live and / or get a kill can still feel like they're making progression.

 

Now, I'm not trying to convince hard cores to agree with me, I already know from other games and other forums that any conversation along those lines devolves into "GIT GUD" and "But a game should be fun" - already heard that. So, hard cores, just stay calm and realize that I'm making this post for the game developers to see, I'm not trying to convince you personally to be less hard core. Just realize some folks play strictly for fun, and still want to have fun even if they're not that great.

Hello there and thank you so much for your input!

I completely understand that as a casual player you do not really enjoy this part of the gameplay, and believe me, we are thinking about all of the possibilities to make it more enjoyable.
Just keep in mind that so far the game was open only for small amount of players. With most of them being very excited or already Bohemia Interactive fans (we really love to make things hardcore) So once the player base expands and more casual players join in your experience will once again be very different.. 
We are still coming up with new ideas and one of those was to include a system that will matchmake only certain types of players - according to how You play the game - To match the hardcore killers together, the looters together and stuff like that. So def let me know how you would feel about that. 

[Dredd1973 3]

1 hour ago, Pyrit. said:

Hello there and thank you so much for your input!

I completely understand that as a casual player you do not really enjoy this part of the gameplay, and believe me, we are thinking about all of the possibilities to make it more enjoyable.
Just keep in mind that so far the game was open only for small amount of players. With most of them being very excited or already Bohemia Interactive fans (we really love to make things hardcore) So once the player base expands and more casual players join in your experience will once again be very different.. 
We are still coming up with new ideas and one of those was to include a system that will matchmake only certain types of players - according to how You play the game - To match the hardcore killers together, the looters together and stuff like that. So def let me know how you would feel about that. 

 

Using TrueSkill / TrueSkill 2     https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publication/trueskill-2-improved-bayesian-skill-rating-system   would be a help once the population is larger. Or at least get rid of the materials cap so a player can continue to accrue mats even beyond the amount needed for the next immediate upgrade so a player is never in a position where the materials they receive after dying just disappear. 

 

In its current state a player can receive absolutely nothing for their time in game, frustrating for a working adult with a busy schedule, and this is only the second game I know of where a player can get nothing for time in game (the other being Dark Souls which I absolutely do NOT play, lol).

 

In contrast consider another F2P game; World of Tanks, where you always earn SOME silver & XP (the two things you need to obtain better tanks) no matter how bad you do. As long as you don't sit totally AFC an entire match or self destruct your vehicle by driving off a cliff or into a lake / ocean you get something for your time - even if you literally just drive in circles (granted, if you don't do some damage to an enemy or at least spot an enemy the amount received is very, very small).

 

A combination of implementing skill based match making AND eliminating the cap on accruing materials might work out to a fair compromise / alternative to changing the death penalty.

 

[Locklear 214]

Your calculations about getting away with something are actually somewhat close to what we count with on average. :) And I can elaborate a bit on a few things. Losing all items upon death is a feature we want to keep. There may be some means to offset this to some degree in the future. There will, however, be some changes to how much materials are given to you when you die in a match, and the material cap is very likely to be removed. Also please note the game preview contains just the core loop; we plan various features that can help players acquire stuff aside from a match. Success in encounters is an essential and best way to progress in the game, but it will not be the only one, and dying in encounters reasonably often shall not hinder your ability to join a new one with a decent loadout, should you wish to take it.

[Fillipe Ruas 3]

I like the idea of losing what is taken to the map because it gives the sensation of fear of losing what has conquered and forces the point of survival of the smartest and strongest

[Jessie J 0]

6 hours ago, Pyrit. said:

Hello there and thank you so much for your input!

I completely understand that as a casual player you do not really enjoy this part of the gameplay, and believe me, we are thinking about all of the possibilities to make it more enjoyable.
Just keep in mind that so far the game was open only for small amount of players. With most of them being very excited or already Bohemia Interactive fans (we really love to make things hardcore) So once the player base expands and more casual players join in your experience will once again be very different.. 
We are still coming up with new ideas and one of those was to include a system that will matchmake only certain types of players - according to how You play the game - To match the hardcore killers together, the looters together and stuff like that. So def let me know how you would feel about that. 

 

I agree completely, understandably that casual players would like to play the game and enjoy something "new". (if you will) The game is aimed around hardcore survival. Being able to implement something that is fair for hardcore and casual players is not easy, (I am not a game developer, just off knowledge) splitting the game up into different player types is nice and all until the hardcore players "invade" the casual players games, vise versa. As the game is in Early Access, all Vigor has is time to polish up the game into the wonderful masterpiece it has potential to be!

[Brochacho2 19]

I think the dropping of all loot upon death is a great example of how this game builds the tension up.

Do I bring the AK that I just found on my next match, or do I deconstruct it? Is it worth more to me to defend myself, or is it better to make another one in the future?

Losing all loot on death makes me approach matches differently, depending on my needs.

Join a match with only a knife, then go for the crate. If you die, then not much is lost. But if you get it, and run to an exit like a rabbit, it is a good feeling!

[Dredd1973 3]

9 hours ago, Locklear said:

Your calculations about getting away with something are actually somewhat close to what we count with on average. :) And I can elaborate a bit on a few things. Losing all items upon death is a feature we want to keep. There may be some means to offset this to some degree in the future. There will, however, be some changes to how much materials are given to you when you die in a match, and the material cap is very likely to be removed. Also please note the game preview contains just the core loop; we plan various features that can help players acquire stuff aside from a match. Success in encounters is an essential and best way to progress in the game, but it will not be the only one, and dying in encounters reasonably often shall not hinder your ability to join a new one with a decent loadout, should you wish to take it.

 

I'd definitely be happy with the material cap going away. Before I crafted some more weapons I was at 6000, went into a match and died, and was told I'd get 915 material - but the counter didn't go above 6000and I was sad face

[Dredd1973 3]

7 hours ago, Jessie J said:

 

I agree completely, understandably that casual players would like to play the game and enjoy something "new". (if you will) The game is aimed around hardcore survival. Being able to implement something that is fair for hardcore and casual players is not easy, (I am not a game developer, just off knowledge) splitting the game up into different player types is nice and all until the hardcore players "invade" the casual players games, vise versa. As the game is in Early Access, all Vigor has is time to polish up the game into the wonderful masterpiece it has potential to be!

 

I see your point - I think if TrueSkill is implemented when full game is released that will help keep n00bs from getting seal clubbed by the MLG types.

[Dredd1973 3]

4 hours ago, Brochacho2 said:

I think the dropping of all loot upon death is a great example of how this game builds the tension up.

Do I bring the AK that I just found on my next match, or do I deconstruct it? Is it worth more to me to defend myself, or is it better to make another one in the future?

Losing all loot on death makes me approach matches differently, depending on my needs.

Join a match with only a knife, then go for the crate. If you die, then not much is lost. But if you get it, and run to an exit like a rabbit, it is a good feeling!

 

I think since you can craft weapons with only mats once you have a blue print the best thing to do with a new weapon is to keep breaking it down for parts until you have the blue print since you get mats even if you die (my subjective opinion).

 

I like the idea of going in w / just a knife to go for the crate, if I ever get my shelter to a good stopping point I'll try that.

 

 

[Brochacho2 19]

That has been my strategy lately as well, and it seems to be paying off. My stash is slowly filling with craftable weapons.

On a side note, my first weapon blueprint came from a crate drop, so there is pretty good incentive to go after them. Once a blueprint for a more powerful weapon was obtained, my confidence level went way up. 

[SeriousSqaunch 1]

If you managed your resources, leveled up your home base, and only joined matches to loot and extract you'd find yourself with an abundance of weapons, ammo, and materials. If you're taking a gun every time and planning on fighting it out with every single player you come across, then you're going to be in for a bad time, casual or not. You need to be stealthy and tactical. Me personally? My strat is to just hit cars. I don't mess with buildings on the chance of running into someone. Being outside with numerous angles to disperse to. So, if you're finding it difficult to hold onto your precious loot, then re-adjust your strategy. Who cares if you only make it out with 5 or 6 items and 1 gun, It's better than leaving empty handed. You want the crate? You gotta be ontop of it. Once you spawn, hit the red zone and hide till it's dropped. Don't engage, don't do anything but rush for the crate and rush for an extract.
 It's very simple. Calling for BI to adjust the loot% loss because you lack the skill is simply taking an amazing aspect away from this game that sets it apart from the rest. 

[IronCladLou 0]

I think a good compromise for this would be to allow the player to drop a small stash location in which items in the stash can be retained even after you die.  This adds something additional to the gameplay loop that would actually be very realistic.  Specifically, in a real apocalypse you would not be able to carry a huge amount of loot and gear.  Even a backpack would fill up quickly.  People would likely need to use some type of cart, and they would hide that cart out of sight, loot, and bring items back to the cart.  Think of it like the 2 wheel shopping cart like grandma used to use, a wheel barrel, Radio Flyer Wagon, etc.  The player can use that location to stash a small amount of items they want to keep.  The risk/reward factor is still intact.  You could also allow other players to find and loot your stash.  If you escape, your stash is protected because it leaves with you.  Just a thought.