Several questions about helos from a newbie

[Kirov (DayZ) 1]

A side note - for some reason I can't start a new topic in the Q&A section; the DLC section is the only one which is not greyed out. Can someone tell me why? Moderator, please move this topic to Q&A if you can.

 

And coming back to the main thing - first of all, I'd like to say hello on this board. I bought Arma 3 with all the bundles necessary just about a week ago, but immediately got to love it (coming from DayZ SA). I quickly realize that the thing I want to do in this game is flying helis. And with regard to this, I have a few questions to the community. I realize that some of them may have already been answered, but I’d like to have a chance to follow up with more questions if necessary. So here they are:

 

1) Controls – do you recommend to stay on default or is there a commonly accepted modification?

 

2) Mouse sensitivity – what do you recommend? I read that people suggest lower sensitivity, but I've noticed some drawbacks (like I have more problems with practising U-turns).

 

3) Mouse movement – is it me or are lateral mouse movements work variously depending on the heli’s speed? Like, it’s yaw on low speed but roll on high speed?

 

4) Still about mouse – do you recommend buying some specific model in order to assign a lot of controls to it? Do you even think that a fancy gaming mouse would help with operating heli?

 

5) Standard vs. advanced model – what can you tell me of that? Should I start with the former and naturally move on to the latter? Or do you pick one and stick to it? I’m not even sure what their differences are at the moment.

 

6) HUD mods – do you recommend downloading some display and if so, which one? Should I use the in-game layout options?

 

7) Other tips – do you have any other useful tips which are not shared that often? (I have watched some videos by that dyslexia guy, Misconduct and Patchwork). Is there like a PDF manual for Arma 3 helicopters? Do you think it’s better to master the Hummingbird and then move to other machines, or is it better to start practicing several?

 

8) Do you think that Arma choppers operate realistic, in the sense that actual pilots consider them well-done? What do you think about the in-game physics?

 

9) Where can I find descriptions of all those gauges in each heli model?

 

10) And a silly question for last – what is that chirping sound when my helo goes up or turns? ;)

 

I'm looking forward to your advice, many thanks in advance!

 

 

[I'mJimFuckingSterlingSon 10]

1: Leave controls as they are

2: Mouse sens is a personal thing, adjust as needed

3: correct, anything below 25km per hour will change it from jaw to turn

4: Any mouse that will let you bind pitch up to a thumb button

5: If you want to be a pro pilot then go for advanced but this changes the way a heli is flown, i don't reccoment it because you can be a pro with standard 2. 

6: None, you need the clear vision and no obstructions

7: There is no clear cut guide for using a heli in Arma, it comes down to training, i have 8k hours on Arma and most of it is spent in the pawnee. 

8: In advanced flight model the heli's simulate a near authentic feel.

9: Online

10: don't know, you will have to record it for us to determine if this is an issue or not. 

 

Tips: 

1  Learn how to decrease your speed in a matter of seconds this can be done by moving the mouse left or right and pressing pitch up, Q or E depending on the direction your nose is pointing @. 

2 Learn to avoid objects when going high speed, in pawnees stay low to avoid detection, basicly in any helicopter unless you are engaging a heli that is flying higher then you are. 

In this case use the mouse to make many tiny movements to prevent the gunner from hitting you. ( never fly in a straight line ) 

3 Learn the bulletdrop in the helicopters, set a marker 1500 meters away from you and try to land hits, adjust accordingly 

4 In my opinion the most difficult aspect is learning how to rotate around an object in a circle, place down a tower and try to keep your nose pointing towards it at all time, once this is mastered you will be able to destroy any helipilot, i hardly ever lose a pvp in heli's due to this fact. 

5 Invest in a simple trackir solution as this will take your flying to the next level: http://www.delanengineering.com/

 

 

 

 

[Grumpy Old Man 3545]

If you plan on spending a fair amount of time flying choppers I really recommend buying a HOTAS, maybe pedals and last but not least TrackIR.

It's a game changer not only for flying choppers, hard to go back once you got used to it.

 

Cheers

[joostsidy 685]

I fly with advanced flying model and HOTAS, this is more realistic and more fun IMO. It's not hyperrealistic because of limitations of the game and hardware,  but it can teach you a lot about about real helicopters.

 

Flying is somewhat easier with mouse and standard flying model. This is less realistic but I suspect most people use this in competitive multiplayer. I think Dyslexi flies like this, combined with headtracking.

 

10. what is that chirping sound when my helo goes up or turns

Helicopter sounds are complex, the sounds depends on from where you are listening and what the helicopter is doing. This chirping (swishing?) sound is probably coming from the main blades, where random air disturbances create this effect as blades pass in each others 'slipstreams'. Of course the sound of this is in the game, but it is not actually modeled in detail. Another thing you can hear is 'blade slapping'. This is what you hear when a helicopter descends or banks such that one blade strikes or just comes close to the tip vortex left by a previous blade.

 

So with the helicopters in Arma you have the default engine (turbine) and blade sounds, combined with a rapid main blade swish-swish-swish and sometimes wop-wop-wop (blade slapping)

[Von Quest 1163]

Saitek Controls (just an example) HOTAS

Track IR by Natural Point (must have!)

[ineptaphid 6413]

I would absolutely suggest starting with the standard flight model, then transition to advanced when you have a feel for flying. Best chopper to learn on is probably the Pawnee. Very light and maneuverable. The ghost hawk is good for something a bit bigger. Personally i enjoy flying with an xbox controller and Xpadder, but that's just me :)

[Kirov (DayZ) 1]

Thank you all for the responses. One interesting thing about HOTAS - dyslexi explicitly says that he recommends against it because sth like 'Arma 3 is just not that type of a game'. I think what he means is that Arma 3 is not a heli sim like DCS (he says that he does uses HOTAS in DCS). I wonder what's your take on that. (And he does use rudder pedals).

 

But I'll definitely get TrackIR sooner rather than later, thanks for all the links and brands.

 

 

[Kirov (DayZ) 1]

On 5/7/2018 at 4:35 PM, I'mJimFuckingSterlingSon said:

4 In my opinion the most difficult aspect is learning how to rotate around an object in a circle, place down a tower and try to keep your nose pointing towards it at all time, once this is mastered you will be able to destroy any helipilot, i hardly ever lose a pvp in heli's due to this fact.

 

Thanks for the most extensive response. The thing with manoeuvres is, I watched Patchwork's take on speed-bleeding U-turns and tried to copy that, and although of course what I'm currently doing is laughably awkward, but I know that the moves are correct and I just need more practice, because I manage to somewhat bleed speed and put my machine down.

 

But I watched a video of the manoeuvre you mention (if it is 'funneling'), in which the guy says to start with near-zero speed, roll to the direction you want to funnel (say, right), keep your nose down towards the target and keep pressing the opposite pedal (here, left). However, when I try to follow those instructions, I'm not even close to what could be called 'funneling'. Basically, my heli turns towards the direction of the roll and then goes out of the roll and levels up, its trajectory not even similar to a circle. I'm not sure what's going on but I'll keep looking for the answers.

 

And 8k hours sure is impressive, I have 1.6k in DayZ SA and I thought that's a lot. ;) So far I have only 100h in Arma 3, but some 80h of it is just me, the editor and my trusty Hummingbird.

[EDcase 87]

If you want the full flying experience then HOTAS or cheaper combo stick is the way to go.

Certainly with the advanced flight model (AFM) you can fly with more control than with mouse and keyboard.

 

If you are somewhat familiar with how a helicopter flies then go straight to AFM otherwise start with the basic mode but change to AFM as soon as possible so you don't get used to basic.

 

...and TrackIR is AWESOME!!!! ;)

[joostsidy 685]

17 hours ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

HOTAS - dyslexi explicitly says that he recommends against it because sth like 'Arma 3 is just not that type of a game'. I think what he means is that Arma 3 is not a heli sim like DCS (he says that he does uses HOTAS in DCS).

I agree, IMO Arma has the *ambition* to also be helo simulator, but does not reach that level. This is indeed probably what D. means: if you want simulation, buy DCS.

 

However, for a player like me it's perfect. With advanced you get a more 'real' feel, but it does not take the amount of time and effort as a more advanced simulator like DCS. Because of Arma limitations, some parts of flying are (from what I've heard) actually a bit *more* difficult than DCS/RL. For example the stability of helicopters is not properly modelled in Arma, which can make flying sometimes a bit more difficult and less realistic, so again, not a true simulator.

 

I am not convinced that you have more control with AFM in every sense (I also used mouse and default fly model before AFM existed). I do not play competitive (KOTH for example), but what I've seen of it in videos, my guess is that they use default fly model with mouse, to be able to pull of ludicrous/impressive stunts like super-sharp flaring combined with 180 turn and landing on a tiny platform. These game modes sometimes use scripts that give partial indestructability to the helo, because in Advanced mode/RL you would totally wreck the engine and/or blades with these kind of maneouvres. Of course it looks spectacular and requires a lot of training to pull off and you might put yourself at a disadvantage if you used HOTAS and AFM for this.

 

And it's probably time I should buy a trackIR as well.. everyone is always so exited about it :-)  I have a SAITEK X55 HOTAS with pedals and just using the 'equipment' is already cool as hell with the real stick and throttle and dozens of customizable buttons (which are really needed!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kirov (DayZ) 1]

11 hours ago, joostsidy said:

I do not play competitive (KOTH for example), but what I've seen of it in videos, my guess is that they use default fly model with mouse, to be able to pull of ludicrous/impressive stunts like super-sharp flaring combined with 180 turn and landing on a tiny platform. These game modes sometimes use scripts that give partial indestructability to the helo, because in Advanced mode/RL you would totally wreck the engine and/or blades with these kind of maneouvres. 

 

So far I have noted two huge advantages of going AFM - the gauges (currently I have to switch to 1pp just to verify my virtual horizon, it can be cumbersome at times) and the 'rough landing' option, which seems like a nice boost especially for noobs. So what are the cons, actually?

[joostsidy 685]

12 hours ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

 

So far I have noted two huge advantages of going AFM - the gauges (currently I have to switch to 1pp just to verify my virtual horizon, it can be cumbersome at times) and the 'rough landing' option, which seems like a nice boost especially for noobs. So what are the cons, actually?

 

So basically my experience of helo KOTH is a couple of youtube videos: this is a popular one:

 

From the comments on the video it seems, this is a most impressive style of helo play you can do in KOTH. And fair enough, there are some cool stunts to be seen. However, with this style of play you're not really flying a helicopter, more like a spaceship that looks like a helicopter.

 

From the video and the comments you can see he plays 3rd person with default fly mode. There are no gauges to be seen, because you don't need them with this type of play. He's flying nap-of-the-earth in good weather so his orientation is very clear. Default fly mode of course has 'rough landings allowed' on by default. As you can see in the vid, there are other measures in action preventing his helicopter from being destroyed. The helicopter, especially the rotors, seem to be partially indestructable (it's a server script, he's not cheating). In the comments he says he's playing m&kb.

 

1. This style of play requires very abrupt memorized movements that are easier to implement with m&kb I think, the keyboard gives digital input and the mouse has a very rapid input (small movement), but with high resolution (gaming mouse)

2. The technology for good joystick axis is complicated compared to the simplicity of a mouse. You need a good joystick to give accurate input (good axis that don't wear out). For example my joystick has different springs that you can put in to modify the movement resistance.

3. Most importantly, I think there is still a little lag between joystick and arma (google it on the forums for more information). It's an Arma 3 problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Harzach 2517]

On 5/12/2018 at 6:14 AM, joostsidy said:

From the comments on the video it seems, this is a most impressive style of helo play you can do in KOTH. And fair enough, there are some cool stunts to be seen. However, with this style of play you're not really flying a helicopter, more like a spaceship that looks like a helicopter.

It's also worth noting that in the grand scheme of things, what he's doing in that video is not that terribly difficult. It just takes practice, and when all you do is ferry guys from spawn to AO all day, that practice adds up quickly. He's also a bit sloppy, but I guess stakes are pretty high in KOTH.

If you ultimately want to be playing more realistic scenarios with an organized community, clean flying will likely be a requirement, whether in standard or AFM. 

[pooroldspike 129]

On ‎30‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 12:46 PM, Kirov (DayZ) said:

2) Mouse sensitivity – what do you recommend? I read that people suggest lower sensitivity, but I've noticed some drawbacks (like I have more problems with practising U-turns).

3) Mouse movement – is it me or are lateral mouse movements work variously depending on the heli’s speed? Like, it’s yaw on low speed but roll on high speed?

 

If you use a mouse for heli and plane control you'll soon be up sh*t creek!

Ask your parents for cash for a joystick, and if they refuse tell them you're going to join the local street gang and run wild!

They'll soon cough up..;)

[Kirov (DayZ) 1]

15 hours ago, pooroldspike said:

 

If you use a mouse for heli and plane control you'll soon be up sh*t creek!

Ask your parents for cash for a joystick, and if they refuse tell them you're going to join the local street gang and run wild!

They'll soon cough up..;)

 

I'm 36, god how I missed being treated like a kid. Thank you so much, sir, and a good day to you! ;P

 

But the point about HOTAS duly noted. Now I need to decide what I do with all that input, as people's opinions sure as hell vary. For now, I'm leaving the controls, decreasing mouse sensitivity a bit and thinking about additional gear (trackIR, HOTAS, pedals, in that order).

[pooroldspike 129]

11 hours ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

..For now, I'm leaving the controls, decreasing mouse sensitivity a bit and thinking about additional gear (trackIR, HOTAS, pedals, in that order).

 

Forget that fancy stuff, just get a cheap simple joystick to start with and you'll be running rings round von Richthofen in no time.

Heck I've got a brandnew super-duper spare joystick that I never use,  it's yours for free if you come over to Plymouth UK to pick it up..:)  

[Kirov (DayZ) 1]

On 21/05/2018 at 9:45 AM, pooroldspike said:

 

Forget that fancy stuff, just get a cheap simple joystick to start with and you'll be running rings round von Richthofen in no time.

Heck I've got a brandnew super-duper spare joystick that I never use,  it's yours for free if you come over to Plymouth UK to pick it up..:)  

 

Thanks buddy, I'll let know my friends in the UK. ;)

[I'mJimFuckingSterlingSon 10]

Legends, 

 

I have a hotas setup but use it only for the Xian as it gives me more thruster control. 

Also being able to use the flaps up/down in auto vectoring / regular flight is also a plus. 

 

For a heli i will have to test it out, even after 8k hours i have never actually tried it lol. 

 

 

 

[Kirov (DayZ) 1]

OK, now a related heli question - I'm playing Exile right now, however I can't find much information on the helo models which have been modded in. For example, there's that AZ H1 helo (or whatsisname), but I can't find any info on its weapon systems etc. There's nothing on the armaholics, no info on which real-life model it's based on, nothing. It seems that Exile wiki is missing many crucial entries. Can you guys tell me what to do when I want more data on non-vanilla aircraft?

[Harzach 2517]

7 minutes ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

OK, now a related heli question - I'm playing Exile right now, however I can't find much information on the helo models which have been modded in. For example, there's that AZ H1 helo (or whatsisname), but I can't find any info on its weapon systems etc. There's nothing on the armaholics, no info on which real-life model it's based on, nothing. It seems that Exile wiki is missing many crucial entries. Can you guys tell me what to do when I want more data on non-vanilla aircraft?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_AH-1Z_Viper

 

If I had to guess, Exile is using RHS's AH-1Z:  http://www.rhsmods.org/w/ah1z

[pooroldspike 129]

On ‎28‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 8:38 PM, Kirov (DayZ) said:

OK, now a related heli question - I'm playing Exile right now, however I can't find much information on the helo models which have been modded in. For example, there's that AZ H1 helo (or whatsisname), but I can't find any info on its weapon systems etc. There's nothing on the armaholics, no info on which real-life model it's based on, nothing. It seems that Exile wiki is missing many crucial entries. Can you guys tell me what to do when I want more data on non-vanilla aircraft?

 

I haven't got any chopper mods, but if I had, I'd flight-test them in the editor by trial and error, pressing keys to see what does what.

Alternatively I'd flight test them inside the game in the server by keeping to a relatively safe area so I don't get shot down while I'm learning it.

I'd probably begin by pressing the F key to  cycle through any weapons it might be carrying such as cannon, AT missiles, AA missiles.