The Iraq Thread

[Guest]

No it's this article I'm talking about. I've posted it twice already

[Othin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Feb. 21 2003,16:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No it's this article I'm talking about. I've posted it twice already <span id='postcolor'>

My bad, I thought you were referencing something that was persuasive.

[Guest]

You speak Swedish?

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">60% of the worlds foreign aid comes from the United States.<span id='postcolor'>

Any link ?

[HellToupee 0]

u think US dosnt black mail countries, well NZ has blackmailed by the US with freetrade, pretty much we wouldnt get free trade unless we let them put/allow nuclear war ships in our waters, us being Anti nuclear didnt like this.

[Blake 0]

"Blackmail" is part of the politics. Most countries do that, but of course on smaller scale. 'you get this if you give us that'. Seems that US made an offer to NZ they couldn't refuse

[Col. Kurtz 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blake @ Feb. 22 2003,16:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Blackmail" is part of the politics. Most countries do that, but of course on smaller scale. 'you get this if you give us that'. Seems that US made an offer to NZ they couldn't refuse  <span id='postcolor'>

NZ did refuse and the US was not that happy.

They booted us out of ANZUS (Australia NewZealand UnitedStates) military treaty and cut all their military ties with us. A lot of New Zealanders (including myself

) are proud of the action that our Prime Minister made.

Slowly the Americans are starting to forgive us...

Thats why we were involved in the Gulf War and Afghanistan, but so far we are aren't playing to the tune that the US Government wants over Iraq.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">60% of the worlds foreign aid comes from the United States.<span id='postcolor'>

Any link ?<span id='postcolor'>

2002 State of the union address.

[Blake 0]

It's hardly surprising that those statistics and facts may surprise some people considering the amount of negative publicity US policies have received in Europe.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 22 2003,15:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">60% of the worlds foreign aid comes from the United States.<span id='postcolor'>

Any link ?<span id='postcolor'>

2002 State of the union address.<span id='postcolor'>

Bush claimed that 60% of international food aid comes from the US.

Of all foreign aid provided by OECD countries in 2001, ~50% came from the EU. Japan and the US each accounted for about 18%.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Bernadotte @ Feb. 22 2003,16:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">8--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 22 2003,158)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">60% of the worlds foreign aid comes from the United States.<span id='postcolor'>

Any link ?<span id='postcolor'>

2002 State of the union address.<span id='postcolor'>

Bush claimed that 60% of international food aid comes from the US.

Of all foreign aid provided by OECD countries in 2001, ~50% came from the EU.  Japan and the US each accounted for about 18%.<span id='postcolor'>

he counted american bombs and bullets as foreign help ......

k , not funny , i go back to bed .....

[MrMilli 0]

of course

give a man a fish and he'll feed himself for a day

give him a loaded M16 and thats at least 30 fishes we don't have to give `

[Crazysheep 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 22 2003,15:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">60% of the worlds foreign aid comes from the United States.<span id='postcolor'>

Any link ?<span id='postcolor'>

2002 State of the union address.<span id='postcolor'>

That is true, however, and fortunate for them-it balances out the bad things. They are the only country to use nukes on civilian targets, and they sponsor countries as bad as Iraq, as well as impose sanctions on third world countries and having children starve in the streets.......

However lots of countries do that. Just the USA isn't a knight in shining armour, that's all.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Crazysheep @ Feb. 22 2003,23:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bush claimed that 60% of international food aid comes from the US.

Of all foreign aid provided by OECD countries in 2001, ~50% came from the EU. Japan and the US each accounted for about 18%.<span id='postcolor'>

Source?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They are the only country to use nukes on civilian targets,<span id='postcolor'>

Wrong, it was a military target. Aside from that denoir will beat me if we talk about world war two again.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">as well as impose sanctions on third world countries and having children starve in the streets.......<span id='postcolor'>

You're right, sanctions don't work. We should go to war.

[Major Fubar 0]

Military target...right.  

Anyway, I never got an answer to which of these are facts and which are fiction:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some questions you won't find in trivial pursuit...

1) Which is the only country in the world to have dropped bombs on over twenty different countries since 1945?

2) Which is the only country to have used nuclear weapons?

3) Which country was responsible for a car bomb which killed 80 civilians in Beirut in 1985, in a botched assassination attempt, thereby making it the most lethal terrorist bombing in modern Middle East history?

4) Which country's illegal bombing of Libya in 1986 was described by the UN Legal Committee as a "classic case" of terrorism?

5) Which country rejected the order of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) to terminate its "unlawful use of force" against Nicaragua in 1986, and then vetoed a UN Security Council resolution calling on all states to observe international law?

6) Which country was accused by a UN-sponsored truth commission of providing "direct and indirect support" for "acts of genocide" against the Mayan Indians in Guatemala during the 1980s?

7) Which country unilaterally withdrew from the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty in December 2001?

8) Which country renounced the efforts to negotiate a verification process for the Biological Weapons Convention and brought an international conference on the matter to a halt in July 2001?

9) Which country prevented the United Nations from curbing the gun trade at a small arms conference in July 2001?

10) Aside from Somalia, which is the only other country in the world to have refused to ratify the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child?

11) Which is the only Western country which allows the death penalty to be applied to children?

12) Which is the only G7 country to have refused to sign the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty, forbidding the use of landmines?

13) Which is the only G7 country to have voted against the creation of the International Criminal Court (ICC) in 1998?

14) Which was the only other country to join with Israel in opposing a 1987 General Assembly resolution condemning international terrorism?

15) Which country refuses to fully pay its debts to the United Nations yet reserves its right to veto United Nations resolutions?

Answer to all 15 questions: The United States of America.<span id='postcolor'>

[FSPilot 0]

What's the only country to have invaded Poland in 1939?

Look out Poland! Germany's going to invade you!

[Blake 0]

1) Which is the only country in the world to have dropped bombs on over twenty different countries since 1945?

-Ended WW2 and avoided costly invasion of Japan which could have cost millions of civilian lives. Japanese were nowhere near surrendering. 150.000 Civilians died on Okinawa alone. In WW2 there were no smart bombs to avoid civilian casualties.

2) Which is the only country to have used nuclear weapons?

Read above.

3) Which country was responsible for a car bomb which killed 80 civilians in Beirut in 1985, in a botched assassination attempt, thereby making it the most lethal terrorist bombing in modern Middle East history?

-Screwed up messy operation. A real shame and no excuses.

Aftermath of 1983 bombing of Marine barracks in which 243 servicemen died. But inexcusable anyway. Hopefully future terrorist assasinations are more accurate.

4) Which country's illegal bombing of Libya in 1986 was described by the UN Legal Committee as a "classic case" of terrorism?

-Terrorism against terrorists then. Libya was responsible for numerous terrorist attacks in Europe and around the world in the 80s. Take Lockerbie 1988 for example and attacks against US servicemen in Germany. I think it was justified, but civilian losses were regrettable anyway.

5) Which country rejected the order of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) to terminate its "unlawful use of force" against Nicaragua in 1986, and then vetoed a UN Security Council resolution calling on all states to observe international law?

-Messy civil war. US sided with right-wing rebels and result was a mess. Hardly anything new in cold war politics on US backyard. Soviets also kept their backyard with same attitude during cold war (Hungary 56, Czechkoslovakia 68, Afganistan 79-89 for example).

6) Which country was accused by a UN-sponsored truth commission of providing "direct and indirect support" for "acts of genocide" against the Mayan Indians in Guatemala during the 1980s?

-Supporting bad regime. Again typical cold war mistakes. But there's no threat of communism anymore so I think US will avoid these kind of quagmires in the future.

7) Which country unilaterally withdrew from the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty in December 2001?

-So what? Looking the world today ABMs might be useful.

8) Which country renounced the efforts to negotiate a verification process for the Biological Weapons Convention and brought an international conference on the matter to a halt in July 2001?

-Maybe they're affraid that information might get on the hands of terrorists/rogue states?

9) Which country prevented the United Nations from curbing the gun trade at a small arms conference in July 2001?

-When you can't get M16s you buy AK47s. Looking at world conflicts today AK47s are the problem not M16s. I really think UN resolutions can't stop the spread of small arms - they are already everywhere unlike WMDs which still can be contained hopefully.

10) Aside from Somalia, which is the only other country in the world to have refused to ratify the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child?

-US should ratify it. I think no explanations are needed for this.

11) Which is the only Western country which allows the death penalty to be applied to children?

-US should stop giving these sentences to minors.

12) Which is the only G7 country to have refused to sign the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty, forbidding the use of landmines?

-Mines are useful defensive weapons. But their irresponsible use should be banned. Like the careless minelaying of Soviets in Afganistan. Selling mines to 3rd world countries should be controlled. Use of mines against infastructure should be banned, defensive use against foreign powers should be legal.

13) Which is the only G7 country to have voted against the creation of the International Criminal Court (ICC) in 1998?

-I'd hope US would sign it, but I also understand their reasons. No comment.

14) Which was the only other country to join with Israel in opposing a 1987 General Assembly resolution condemning international terrorism?

-This resolution is naive anyway. It would tie US hands if using hard measures against terrorists which don't listen to resolutions anyway. Soviets anyway couldn't care less about this kind of resolution.

15) Which country refuses to fully pay its debts to the United Nations yet reserves its right to veto United Nations resolutions?

-US should pay these debts.

Answer to all 15 questions: The United States of America.

-Correct. But then again what does it prove? Same kind of sin list could be collected from almost any other country like France or Russia. Despite mistakes, blunders and errors I still believe US generally doing things for a good reason altought it could improve also.

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blake @ Feb. 23 2003,02:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">12) Which is the only G7 country to have refused to sign the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty, forbidding the use of landmines?

-Mines are useful defensive weapons. But their irresponsible use should be banned. Like the careless minelaying of Soviets in Afganistan. Selling mines to 3rd world countries should be controlled. Use of mines against infastructure should be banned, defensive use against foreign powers should be legal.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm tempted to post some pics of landmine victims with missing limbs, but I think it would be in violation of the forum rule on posting graphic pictures.

[FSPilot 0]

It's not a violation of forum rules to read the rest of his post though.

[Major Fubar 0]

What's that supposed to mean. I did read the rest, but didn't feel a need to comment on it.

Is this the part where I'm supposed to whine like a little girl and cry "personal attack" like you do?

[SGTKOPP 0]

iraq is the worlds faultSuppliers of Iraq

This is to show that the US and its allies need to right a wrong done to the Iraqie people and there neighbors

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blake @ Feb. 23 2003,02:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">-Mines are useful defensive weapons. But their irresponsible use should be banned.<span id='postcolor'>

Ok.  Look at what he said after your bold.  "... their irresponsible use should be banned."

Now you said...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm tempted to post some pics of landmine victims with missing limbs, but I think it would be in violation of the forum rule on posting graphic pictures.<span id='postcolor'>

Now why would you say this if you didn't feel they should be banned if they were being used irresponsibly.  Like in the situations where they'd hurt civilians.

[monkeygoat 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 23 2003,02:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blake @ Feb. 23 2003,02:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">-Mines are useful defensive weapons. But their irresponsible use should be banned.<span id='postcolor'>

Ok.  Look at what he said after your bold.  "... their irresponsible use should be banned."

Now you said...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm tempted to post some pics of landmine victims with missing limbs, but I think it would be in violation of the forum rule on posting graphic pictures.<span id='postcolor'>

Now why would you say this if you didn't feel they should be banned if they were being used irresponsibly.  Like in the situations where they'd hurt civilians.<span id='postcolor'>

Isn't that what he was implying? That they shouldn't be used?

[Guest]

It would seem that Europe is not the only one having trouble keeping a united internal agreement on Iraq. (Article)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Across the country, 107 cities and towns, including Los Angeles, New Haven, Cleveland, Philadelphia and Berkeley, Calif., have joined the Cities for Peace movement by passing resolutions against going to war.

<span id='postcolor'>

The funny thing is that this is on the headlines of several European newspapers while I've only seen this mentioned in a dozen local US newspapers. Not a word about it on CNN.

Here are some other local references to it:

San Francisco Chronicle

Cincinnati Post

Houston Chronicle

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MonkeyGoat @ Feb. 23 2003,08:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Isn't that what he was implying? That they shouldn't be used?<span id='postcolor'>

They were both implying the same thing, but Fubar was arguing about it when the other guy was agreeing with him.