The Iraq Thread

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 25 2003,03:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 25 2003,03:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 24 2003,15:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Education can be a real bitch can't it?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes... if you get a degree in something with a market and a practical application.  *cough*.  hehe. sorry. couldn't resist  

All your articles seem to mourn the evolution of our industrial economy to a post-industrial economy.  Frankly, its pointless because its the natural course of economic evolution. Their argument revolves around this.<span id='postcolor'>

Your economic revolution is creating a 20-80 split between the ultra rich and the destitute.  Its fine if you have a degree and belong to the top 20%.  But this is America, not feudal Europe.  We don't believe in aristocracy here, and we don't give a shit who your daddy was, here you are supposed to be able to make your own success.  That ethic may very well disappear, and then what?<span id='postcolor'>

Bravo!

Actually, one of the richest men in the US (Warren Buffet) has said that he believes that inheritance taxes should be dramatically raised, not lowered.

The way it is going now, there is an aristocracy of wealth being created in the US.  And that leads to a lot of stagnation.  If a disgustingly rich person dies, his family should be given a reasonable amount, and the rest should be forfeit to the state.  It would help pay down federal debt, which would give a huge boost to the economy.  It would also allow bright but disadvantaged kids to get proper educations without ending up with a stifling debt load.

Aristocracy of Wealth = Very Very Bad Thing<span id='postcolor'>

The reason they start out with a lot of debt is a lack of financial education in the first place isnt it?

Why should the rich be held to a higher standard?

I think that is up to the family and the man who died to decide were this money goes. Andrew Carnegie was one man who did this.

[bn880 5]

I'll put my opinion very simply: it's not so bad if you have wealthy people, as long as they spend most of their money on goods and services. The worst thing for every poor person is a rich guys cash store sitting in some interest accounts/stocks where it's working only for the rich guy. There has to be a turnaround with money.

I hope you get what I mean, since it's quite simple.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

Yes... but its the poor who store their money in accounts/stocks more than the rich do. If you look at how the rich got their money, you notice that they got it from investing in real estate and business, not from working hard all of their life and saving money to put in the bank for interest.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,21:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your economic revolution is creating a 20-80 split between the ultra rich and the destitute.  Its fine if you have a degree and belong to the top 20%.  But this is America, not feudal Europe.  We don't believe in aristocracy here, and we don't give a shit who your daddy was, here you are supposed to be able to make your own success.  That ethic may very well disappear, and then what?<span id='postcolor'>

my daddy?  my granddaddy was dirt poor and dragged himself here. My father was just a bit better off.  Sorry, but most of the people I know who are excelling in the digital economy are not white and have not been given their position by their "daddy".

heh.. I didn't realize that some lawyers studied poli sci before getting into law school.  I thought they'd take pre-law or criminology degrees. I like giving poli sci a good kick from time to time for fun.

[Jinef 2]

Well i got a degree in Geographic processes, including all the weather systems, geology and Human Geography plus i got 3 A-Levels in English, Sociology and Pshycology, and considering i'm listening to Britney Spears at the moment i wouldn't call myself very smart. Education is over rated, and i've actually done it, most people who say that haven't.

Edit - bloody spelling

[Jinef 2]

But then again it's sometimes just nice to have knowledge, even if it is redundant in respect of your occupation.

I know people with degrees in Philosophy, now that is useless to their jobs, but we can have some bloody hilarious arguments!

Also doing a degree can be really fun, at the moment only 4% of Britains go into higher education. But then you don't need it to be good at what you do.

An example, it used to be practiced unofficially in SAR units, and i'm sure it still goes on, of pilots teaching the winchman and the basics of flying the helicopter, and the pilots would learn how to operate the winch, this provided that if a team member was rendered useless then somebody could take his place, to increase functionality.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ April 25 2003,15:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">An example, it used to be practiced unofficially in SAR units, and i'm sure it still goes on, of pilots teaching the winchman and the basics of flying the helicopter, and the pilots would learn how to operate the winch, this provided that if a team member was rendered useless then somebody could take his place, to increase functionality.<span id='postcolor'>

and that goes for most of the armed forces , when you work in a small group in which everybody has their own job to to do

[PitViper 0]

back on topic

more documents on Galloway?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0425/p01s04-woiq.htm

[PitViper 0]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/18/opinion/18ROSE.html

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 25 2003,14:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,21:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your economic revolution is creating a 20-80 split between the ultra rich and the destitute.  Its fine if you have a degree and belong to the top 20%.  But this is America, not feudal Europe.  We don't believe in aristocracy here, and we don't give a shit who your daddy was, here you are supposed to be able to make your own success.  That ethic may very well disappear, and then what?<span id='postcolor'>

my daddy?  my granddaddy was dirt poor and dragged himself here. My father was just a bit better off.  Sorry, but most of the people I know who are excelling in the digital economy are not white and have not been given their position by their "daddy".

heh.. I didn't realize that some lawyers studied poli sci before getting into law school.  I thought they'd take pre-law or criminology degrees. I like giving poli sci a good kick from time to time for fun. <span id='postcolor'>

See, my point exactly. That's what makes America so great. My grandparents to started from nothing. They were dirt poor immigrants who found jobs, bought houses and cars, raised families and fought in America's wars to give us what we have now. My parents went to college and did a lot better, and my siblings and I are getting our professional degrees and will be extremely well off. No one gave a shit what connections our ancestors had, who they knew, whether or not they owned land, were educated. We had the same opportunities as everyone else to make something of ourselves. If we let the government take that away from us, then america becomes a place no longer worth living in or fighting for. Keep your government accountable, and don't fall for the cult of celebrity and riches that are creating the new aristocracy. I happen to know Dick Ames, owner and founder of Ames Construction, which has built many of the major highways you drive upon, and the airports you fly into. He's a multi-billionaire, and one of the nicest people I've met. Generous to a fault and completely unpretentious. There are very few people with money out there like him, and he still gives back to society as much as he can, because he started from nothing, bought a bulldozer and started a construction empire. He pays his taxes, donates to charity, and helps anyone out who needs it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are rich people out there (the majority of them) who make billions, keep it all to themselves, dodge taxes and social responsibility and screw over the poor. Our government only seems interested in holding its hand out in exchange for making these sons of bitches richer beyond our wildest imaginations. This big tax cut that Bush wants, where do you think most of the cuts go? They go to the top income bracket. That's fucking ridiculous. Reagan tried trickle down economics and completely fucked the economy and society up for over ten years. Welcome back to the same old song and dance, only now we have warfare to distract us from whats going on here at home.

[foxer 0]

So true,you hear about these billion dollar companies offices moving to islands off the coast of US.So the the taxes won't be soo high.That's what stanley did,the tool company.Also what about nike,GM,ford,others out there that moves their factory outta the us because the workforce is cheap.Then when a town doesn't have a factory left ,the town will close down and they will move to a bigger city.I don't understand this tax cut stuff.If rich people get the money how is that going create more jobs ? I think if you give it to the poor,middle-class  they would have to spend it.Rich people just puts in the bank.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

It makes sense though, I mean, do you go out and buy the most expensive car you can get, or the most expensive food, the most expensive clothes? no, why do you expect them to hire the most expensive employees?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think if you give it to the poor,middle-class they would have to spend it.Rich people just puts in the bank.

<span id='postcolor'>

Its the poor and middle class that puts it in the bank. The rich know that it is better to spend the money they get on something that will make them more money. Keeping money in a bank gives very little intrest, often less than what inflation is and it is a very slow way to make money. So obviously they will try to spend that money on an IPO, a new business, or commercial real estate.

[LandShark-AL 0]

Tax cuts is not giving anyone money is letting people keep more of there money and not pay it as tax to be given to

the people that will not get off there ass and work.You can't

give tax cuts to the poor they don't pay a tax to cut.Its like this people that have money pay to people that work for them.

these people buy things and that go's to the people that make and sell the things people buy so the workers can get payed.Give a man a fish feed him for a day teach him how to

catch a fish feed him for a life time.

[ralphwiggum 6]

ok, back on topic please.

[Longinius 1]

1. 14 dead in Iraq, many of them civilians, as some kind of weapon depot exploded. Just heard it on the TV news, no details yet.

2. Amnesty international demands the US military investigate the treatment of 4 captured looters who were ordered to stripped and then marked with the arab word for "Thief" on the chest with black letters.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Reuter's video news feed. Massive grave found near Baghdad.

Longinius's article from yahoo

another one

[Jinef 2]

Here's a funny Radio 4 Clip, you have to stream it off the site, it can't be downloaded because they replace it every week with the latest one.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/atoz/

Go down to N and look for

Now Show, The

Listen | Go to Website

Click listen and enjoy, like all sketches it's funny where you know what they're talking about, also the Americans might not understand it, British humour an all!

You need Real Player.

[Guest]

Some of the sketches are really good

My favourites:

New school system in Iraq

Current support for the war

[Jinef 2]

Those are the ones i was thinkin that were relevant, how do you extract them? I'm not very advanced when it comes to PCs.

Edit - add my opinion

I liked the part about the saints the most, that was funny. The school stuff was funny but of course non PC.

*cough*like i give a poo*cough*

[Jinef 2]

Has no one else listened to it? I really like the 1/10 part when they're ranting about maths!

[Col. Kurtz 0]

I listened to the ones that Denoir linked, and I liked them both. I quite liked the school one. "The country that freed you so you could loot the whole country, except the oil ministry which we kindly protected for you".

I really do love British comedians, they tend to be absolutely suberb. Theres a British comdey on Thursday nights called 'Dead Ringers' and its very funny, great stuff.

Annnyyywayyy, but to Iraq: US testing chemical drums

But then, maybe that story is just a bit of British comedy

[Jinef 2]

The problem is that the British newspapers are good at investigating things, and uncovering things that have been covered up, this works both ways though.

We like to link to sources that say Medics try to hand over POWs and get shot at, not confirm the suspicions of TBA.

[Guest]

This is cute

[bn880 5]

Okay, I have not read every single psot here lately but I will post my stuff as it's probably unique.

Do any of you feel suspicious that electricity and especially phone communications are due to be restored in Baghdad only in 4-6 months? I think that if it was a military objective, power could be restored in 1-2 weeks and most phone service in 1 month. I'm wondering if this delay is a plan to cut off communications for people in Baghdad who would like to organize anything the coalition does not like. Such as protests, small governments etc.

[Jinef 2]

Very possible.

Good thinking there.

Keep up the good work Einstein