The Iraq Thread

[Schoeler 0]

LOL, no problem. I just hate to see people swimmming in ignorance!

The world seems to be shifting back to realpolitik faster than ever seemed possible. What I can't believe, is the growing hostility between Europe and America. Jesus, let's find a way to work it out fellas.

[Longinius 1]

I just read a Swedish article about how 4 US soldiers tried to pull a "Three Kings" in Iraq. They were busted though, so no harm done. (Almost all money accounted for). The soldiers had found a cache of Baathparty money, several million USD, in steel boxes (40 in all). That money is now in the possesion of the military.

Considering it was Baath party money, what will happen to it?

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 24 2003,10:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Considering it was Baath party money, what will happen to it?<span id='postcolor'>

From what I've read, the first thing they're doing is determining what's real and what's counterfeit.

Next, they're going to attempt to trace where all this dough came from.

Finally, I hope and assume it will be apllied to the benefit of the Iraqis, assuming it's genuine.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,08:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The world seems to be shifting back to realpolitik faster than ever seemed possible.  What I can't believe, is the growing hostility between Europe and America.<span id='postcolor'>

What hostility? It seems to me like our dear leaders have their lips attached to Mr. Bush's bottom. Bleh, spineless bastards.

I think that it is stupid and short-sighted. It would be better for all of us if they limited their contacts with USA until a new administration takes over. It's bad getting associated with Bush plus it gives a signal that Europe is a push-over which will set a bad precedent.

The long term benifit to both Americans and Europeans would be to isolate Bush as much as possible. Make him fail and lose the next elections. After you've gotten rid of him and his stooges then we can all be a happy family again

[FallenPaladin 0]

Yes, that`s true. Just let Pres. Bush finish his wargames and hope that he doesn`t make any more damage. Then kick him and the hawks out of the Oval Office and the whole White House and the world will be a little more peaceful again...

... until the new Bin Ladens created by the TBA since 2001 become active.

[Longinius 1]

http://www.expressen.se/expressen/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=10&a=29561

The above link leads to an article about Ibrahim Ali Suza. Ibrahim is the custodian of the Swedish embassy in Baghdad. He has been the only staff there since the war with Kuwait and he has succeeded in guarding it from looters so far. The Swedish government has asked him to leave, fearing for his safety, but he refuses to go.

Recently he has recieved assistance from some marines who against standing orders gave him additional ammunition and some grenades. They also put up a sign on the embassy stating that it is under military protection, which isnt quite true.

So I for one would like to thank Ibrahim for his devotion and loyalty. I would also like to thank those American soldiers for helping him in his efforts. I believe credit should be given, where credit is due.

[Longinius 1]

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,296793,00.html

And, its official, the farmer who shot down the Apache didnt. A Baath party lie. How unexpected

[Blaegis 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Blaegis @ April 16 2003,02:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Realpolitik raises its ugly head, or why I hate all politicians" article<span id='postcolor'>

I guess I was right. Great.   I just hope that Russia isn't left alone holding the anti-war bag while the rest of the weasels spread their legs for the Americans. Given the current situation (US/UK achieving a military victory and France/Germany doing their two-timing act) the primary concern for Putin should now be the well-being of Russia and Russians. So I wouldn't hold it against him if he reached an understanding with the Americans. Preferrably extracting some sort of concessions as far as exploitation (err... sorry, rebuilding) of Iraq is concerned. But as I stated before, there's little in the way of leverage to be used, especially now since the anti-war coalition is history. But we shall see.

As for W., call me a cynic, but I think he'll get re-elected next year. I can already imagine the TV election commercials: WTC, stern W. at ground zero, flag-waving, some of the infamous AC-130 footage, flag-waving in Bagram, toppling of the Saddam statues, selected shots of smiling Iraqis waving at the American M1s and finally some more W. and flag-waving. Who wouldn't lap it up?

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Education can be a real bitch can't it?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes... if you get a degree in something with a market and a practical application.  *cough*.  hehe. sorry. couldn't resist  

All your articles seem to mourn the evolution of our industrial economy to a post-industrial economy.  Frankly, its pointless because its the natural course of economic evolution. Their argument revolves around this.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 24 2003,07:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,08:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The world seems to be shifting back to realpolitik faster than ever seemed possible.  What I can't believe, is the growing hostility between Europe and America.<span id='postcolor'>

What hostility? It seems to me like our dear leaders have their lips attached to Mr. Bush's bottom.  Bleh, spineless bastards.

I think that it is stupid and short-sighted. It would be better for all of us if they limited their contacts with USA until a new administration takes over. It's bad getting associated with Bush plus it gives a signal that Europe is a push-over which will set a bad precedent.

The long term benifit to both Americans and Europeans would be to isolate Bush as much as possible. Make him fail and lose the next elections. After you've gotten rid of him and his stooges then we can all be a happy family again <span id='postcolor'>

it's my opinion that most of the animosity is based mostly on hatred of a caricature image of Bush. The Euros would have been cheerleading if it was Bill Clinton using force to extricate Saddam and his WMD.  It's quite funny actually because Clinton and Bush are not very different .

[SgtBarnes 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 23 2003,20:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We didn't have to get involved in europe, we could have focused on eliminating the Japanese threat and coming out of the Great Depression.  No, we did it because you were "our friends."<span id='postcolor'>

Franklin D. Roosevelt in a radio broadcast on 17th December, 1940.

"In the present world situation of course there is absolutely no doubt in the mind of a very overwhelming number of Americans that the best immediate defence of the United States is the success of Great Britain in defending itself; and that, therefore, quite aside from our historic and current interest in the survival of democracy in the world as a whole, it is equally important, from a selfish point of view of American defence, that we should do everything to help the British Empire to defend itself."

Anthony Eden (British Foreign Secretary), Memoirs:

"The ability of the Royal Navy to escort the convoys upon which Britain's life depended was tried to the limit during this summer.

The United States Government were now straining neutrality in our favour and Mr. Churchill was continually pressing them to further efforts. He asked, among other things, for the loan of fifty or sixty destroyers, and this scheme was discussed between London and Washington.

The negotiations did not go smoothly, nor did I altogether approve of the details of the final settlement. At one time the suggestion was put forward in Washington that the entire British West Indies should be handed over.

The sweeping nature of the American demands caused some delay in the negotiations. Local patriotism in the West Indies was justifiably affronted.

By August 14th, however, the agreement was settled, to be ratified at the beginning of the following month. Our desperate straits alone could justify its terms. The age and condition of the fifty destroyers made unexpectedly

large demands upon our dockyards. Only nine ships were available before the end of 1940, by which time our own naval construction was catching up on our losses."

William Knox, then Secretary of the US Navy:

"The existence of the British Navy and a balance of power in Europe have operated to give us military security against aggressions from that region. For many years we actually have had the benefits of a two-ocean Navy instead

of only the one-ocean Navy that flies the American flag. The defeat of Great Britain would definitely carry with it the destruction of the British Fleet or would transfer it to German hands to be used against us"

[Badgerboy 0]

Quite, those facts always seem to get glossed over. Countries only act in their best self interests, not selfish actions, but intelligent ones.

Part of the destroyer deal involved us leasing many islands around the world to the US for 100 years. For example, Diego Garcia is British, but is run by the US.

Personally, I think we got screwed on that destroyer deal, as their condition was laughable, and we made large concessions to get them. Not that I'm disputing we needed the help, which was appreciated, but the US at the time knew we were desperate.

If anything, WW2 made the US the superpower it is today. Right place at the right time eh?

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 24 2003,15:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Education can be a real bitch can't it?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes... if you get a degree in something with a market and a practical application.  *cough*.  hehe. sorry. couldn't resist  

All your articles seem to mourn the evolution of our industrial economy to a post-industrial economy.  Frankly, its pointless because its the natural course of economic evolution. Their argument revolves around this.<span id='postcolor'>

Law School isn't a practical application of my degree?

It seems to be for my sister. She graduated last year from the school I'll be attending next. She started out in a Phoenix firm at $155,000/per annum. I'd say that's doing well.

My Sis

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,21:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My Sis<span id='postcolor'>

I bet she'll sue you for posting that link.

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 24 2003,20:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,21:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My Sis<span id='postcolor'>

I bet she'll sue you for posting that link. <span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, there goes my free representation.

She's actually a damn good corporate attorney. She recently wrote the argument for a case that garnered $400 million for her client.

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,20:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My Sis<span id='postcolor'>

<checks teeth for food particles and smooths hair>

How YOU doin'?

Semper Fi

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 24 2003,21:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,20:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My Sis<span id='postcolor'>

<checks teeth for food particles and smooths hair>

How YOU doin'?

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry, she's getting married to a pretty great guy next May.

[E6Hotel 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,21:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry, she's getting married to a pretty great guy next May. <span id='postcolor'>

That's for the best, the current Mrs. E6Hotel probably wouldn't approve of my designs anyway. 

Semper Fi

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ April 24 2003,21:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,21:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry, she's getting married to a pretty great guy next May. <span id='postcolor'>

That's for the best, the current Mrs. E6Hotel probably wouldn't approve of my designs anyway. 

Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'>

LOL.

Funny, first thing I thought was 'Wow, she's a hottie! Shame about the lawyer bit!'

[Die Alive 0]

Tariq Aziz captured in Iraq.

-=Die Alive=-

[LandShark-AL 0]

Tariq is ok but I want to see more of Baghdad Bob he

would have me rolling in the floor

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 24 2003,15:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Education can be a real bitch can't it?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes... if you get a degree in something with a market and a practical application.  *cough*.  hehe. sorry. couldn't resist  

All your articles seem to mourn the evolution of our industrial economy to a post-industrial economy.  Frankly, its pointless because its the natural course of economic evolution. Their argument revolves around this.<span id='postcolor'>

Your economic revolution is creating a 20-80 split between the ultra rich and the destitute. Its fine if you have a degree and belong to the top 20%. But this is America, not feudal Europe. We don't believe in aristocracy here, and we don't give a shit who your daddy was, here you are supposed to be able to make your own success. That ethic may very well disappear, and then what?

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 25 2003,03:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 24 2003,15:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 24 2003,02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Education can be a real bitch can't it?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes... if you get a degree in something with a market and a practical application.  *cough*.  hehe. sorry. couldn't resist  

All your articles seem to mourn the evolution of our industrial economy to a post-industrial economy.  Frankly, its pointless because its the natural course of economic evolution. Their argument revolves around this.<span id='postcolor'>

Your economic revolution is creating a 20-80 split between the ultra rich and the destitute.  Its fine if you have a degree and belong to the top 20%.  But this is America, not feudal Europe.  We don't believe in aristocracy here, and we don't give a shit who your daddy was, here you are supposed to be able to make your own success.  That ethic may very well disappear, and then what?<span id='postcolor'>

Bravo!

Actually, one of the richest men in the US (Warren Buffet) has said that he believes that inheritance taxes should be dramatically raised, not lowered.

The way it is going now, there is an aristocracy of wealth being created in the US. And that leads to a lot of stagnation. If a disgustingly rich person dies, his family should be given a reasonable amount, and the rest should be forfeit to the state. It would help pay down federal debt, which would give a huge boost to the economy. It would also allow bright but disadvantaged kids to get proper educations without ending up with a stifling debt load.

Aristocracy of Wealth = Very Very Bad Thing

[Jinef 2]

Actually the only feudal system now remaining in the world is on a small island called Sark in the channels islands, it is about the same size as RAF St Athans.

Marx was the guy who invented the idea of all the proletarians and bougeiosse (never can spell that) and he came from Germany. Also we had our reveloutions and got rid of the aristocracy a very long time ago.

America is basically repeating Europes history, mistakes and all, 300 years later. You will understand our attitude in 300 years time, maybe before, America is growing up very fast.

To put a patronising and facetious tint on things.

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ April 25 2003,03:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">America is basically repeating Europes history, mistakes and all, 300 years later. You will understand our attitude in 300 years time, maybe before, America is growing up very fast.

To put a patronising and facetious tint on things.<span id='postcolor'>

Don't forget, we are a very young country, and haven't the history to rely upon, so growing pains are inevitable.

What gets me pissed off is that our founders specifically designed the country and wrote the Constitution to prevent the aristocracy they so despised in Europe. Its why so many people from around the world flocked to this nation. The land of opportunity. Now, politicians and Supreme Court justices have subverted our constitution so much, that its basically not even the same document any more.

If I were an Iraqi, I'd be demanding something other than American style democracy. Since we were the first large scale democratic republic, we didn't have the benefit of learning from others mistakes, so our constitution is imperfect. Let's hope they get it right in Iraq, for the Iraqis sake.