The Iraq Thread

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 06 2003,10:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"As far as I know, threatening people over the phone is not a crime.  I'm not sure, but the caller isn't doing anything, and I've never heard of anybody being charged with it.  Anybody know for sure?

And yes, nazi propaganda is freedom of speech too."

In Sweden if I threaten to kill you, its a crime. And I can be sent to court for it. If I threaten to ruin your life, get you fired and generally mess you up, its also a crime. I always thought these were crimes in most western societys.<span id='postcolor'>

They are.

Various forms of misdemeanors and felonies, depending on what was said or threatened.

And Nazi rallies and "literature" are protected, as are most forms of hate-inducers. But if it is found the message of hate incited or caused a crime...that person is charged for it.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 06 2003,23:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not only that, but they actually used innocent civilians as a weapon.<span id='postcolor'>

No they used airplanes, the civilians just happened to be inside. Just about the same way that the civilian happen to be inside elecrical and water plants that get bombed.  

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 07 2003,04:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 06 2003,23:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not only that, but they actually used innocent civilians as a weapon.<span id='postcolor'>

No they used airplanes, the civilians just happened to be inside. Just about the same way that the civilian happen to be inside elecrical and water plants that get bombed.  <span id='postcolor'>

They didn't just use airplanes, they used civilian airliners, full of people. It was a deliberate attack on civilians. Not civilian infrastructure, people. It makes me sick to see you try to justify 09/11. But then I get a good laugh about it.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 06 2003,23:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They didn't just use airplanes, they used civilian airliners, full of people.  It was a deliberate attack on civilians.  Not civilian infrastructure, people.  It makes me sick to see you try to justify 09/11.  But then I get a good laugh about it.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not trying justify anything. Killing civilians is always wrong, no matter who does it. I'm just putting it in your own terms. The targets were the civilians in the WTC, not those in the airplanes. The airplanes were just the tools for the destruction, not the target. The people in the planes were not the target, they were "collateral damage" - perhaps desired collateral damage from AQ's point of view, but their mission was not about killing them, it was about killing those in the twin towers.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 06 2003,23:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 06 2003,23:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They didn't just use airplanes, they used civilian airliners, full of people.  It was a deliberate attack on civilians.  Not civilian infrastructure, people.  It makes me sick to see you try to justify 09/11.  But then I get a good laugh about it.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not trying justify anything. Killing civilians is always wrong, no matter who does it. I'm just putting it in your own terms. The targets were the civilians in the WTC, not those in the airplanes. The airplanes were just the tools for the destruction, not the target. The people in the planes were not the target, they were "collateral damage" - perhaps desired collateral damage from AQ's point of view, but their mission was not about killing them, it was about killing those in the twin towers.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, I always thought (ie my opinion) that the AQ main purpose was to bring down the towers, a symbol if you will of American capitalist outreach. The civilians naturally were an added bonus for them, but the Towers themselves were the main target (based on the '91 truck bombing of the Towers that did little to kill civilians and was aimed at the Tower supports.)

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

9/11 was on a Tuesday also, the day with the greatest attendence for workers right? maybe I have the day mixed up.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Mar. 06 2003,23:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually, I always thought (ie my opinion) that the AQ main purpose was to bring down the towers, a symbol if you will of American capitalist outreach. The civilians naturally were an added bonus for them, but the Towers themselves were the main target (based on the '91 truck bombing of the Towers that did little to kill civilians and was aimed at the Tower supports.)<span id='postcolor'>

I think so too, but I didn't want to upset FSPilot too much. It's not a coincidence that they choose this target twice for its symbolical value.

[Othin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 06 2003,14:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 06 2003,23:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not only that, but they actually used innocent civilians as a weapon.<span id='postcolor'>

No they used airplanes, the civilians just happened to be inside. Just about the same way that the civilian happen to be inside elecrical and water plants that get bombed.  <span id='postcolor'>

That you try to even pass that off as a valid argument is amazing. For the moment we'll put your bias aside and just exame what you said.

You're equating an act of terrorism with the wartime bombing of civilian infrastructure. It was not an accident that the building was full of people as were the airplanes. Are you trying to infer that the U.S. waits and purposely bombs bridges and power planets when they have the most workers in them? Please.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The targets were the civilians in the WTC, not those in the airplanes.<span id='postcolor'>

both, but I won't get technical.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The people in the planes were not the target, they were "collateral damage" - perhaps desired collateral damage from AQ's point of view, but their mission was not about killing them, it was about killing those in the twin towers.<span id='postcolor'>

They were trying to kill as many Americans as possible. Their targets were both the civilians in the towers and in the planes.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think so too, but I didn't want to upset FSPilot too much. It's not a coincidence that they choose this target twice for its symbolical value.<span id='postcolor'>

I think the WTC was a prime target for all these reasons. It was a symbol of American capitalism, was in an extremely large city, and was supposed to be full of people.

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 06 2003,23:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They didn't just use airplanes, they used civilian airliners, full of people.  It was a deliberate attack on civilians.  <span id='postcolor'>

Yes of course, I'm sure if they just asked nicely at the local USAF base they would have lent them some military aircraft.

No one is justifying S11, but trying to make a point - killing civilians is wrong, whether done by Al Queda terrorists, or the the US military by initiating an avoidable war.

[Hit_Sqd_Maximus 0]

Bush is speaking now for those who dont know allready

[HellToupee 0]

u could compare it to the abomb attacks.

[Harnu 0]

I'm watching his speech too. Is it just me or is he looking a little depressed?

[FSPilot 0]

Sounds like he needs some sleep.

Press - "Mr. President, why do you want to go to war with Iraq?"

Bush - *long, drawn out sigh* "Don't you people read newspapers?"

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No one is justifying S11, but trying to make a point - killing civilians is wrong, whether done by Al Queda terrorists, or the the US military by initiating an avoidable war.<span id='postcolor'>

For the last time. The US military is not trying to kill civilians.

[HellToupee 0]

not trying but will, im sure they wernt trying to bomb their own troops as well but they did.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 07 2003,03:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For the last time.  The US military is not trying to kill civilians.<span id='postcolor'>

They are not saying that the US is neccessarily targeting civilians.

They are saying whether they are targeted or not, civilian deaths should and can be avoided. And a war on Iraq, or rather an invasion of Iraq will almost certianly entail civilian deaths.

Whether this view is right or wrong ain't for me to say. My view is as regretable as it is...civilians will ALWAYS get caught in the cross-fire of waring nations. Civilian value, in a war, is tremendous to both sides.

[HellToupee 0]

http://forums.jetstreamgames.co.nz/attachm....=399450

http://forums.jetstreamgames.co.nz/attachm....=399633

http://forums.jetstreamgames.co.nz/attachm....=399626

http://forums.jetstreamgames.co.nz/attachm....=399623

see if it works now i have a warm fuzzy feeling it will

[ale2999 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Mar. 07 2003,03:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://forums.jetstreamgames.co.nz/attachment.php?s=&postid=399626

http://forums.jetstreamgames.co.nz/attachment.php?s=&postid=399623

http://forums.jetstreamgames.co.nz/attachment.php?s=&postid=399450<span id='postcolor'>

give us ur login information and we will read lol

[HellToupee 0]

ow bugger didnt know login was needed.

[FSPilot 0]

c'mon just tell us your login info

[HellToupee 0]

well it wnt work, the thread is here

http://forums.jetstreamgames.co.nz/showthr....d=26517

im not in it tho, but sum good pics in it

[FSPilot 0]

You have to be logged in to view the attachments.

[HellToupee 0]

i dont think so i tried it with konquer not logged in.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 07 2003,03:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sounds like he needs some sleep.

Press - "Mr. President, why do you want to go to war with Iraq?"

Bush - *long, drawn out sigh* "Don't you people read newspapers?"

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No one is justifying S11, but trying to make a point - killing civilians is wrong, whether done by Al Queda terrorists, or the the US military by initiating an avoidable war.<span id='postcolor'>

For the last time.  The US military is not trying to kill civilians.<span id='postcolor'>

Did Bush really say that? What a moron. Like there is somehow a fundamental truth to something because it was printed in a newspaper. Hell, I saw a paper in the checkout line while buying grocceries yesterday that said Elvis is alive. HOLY!!! How has he hidden out for so long?

As for needing sleep, maybe hsi conscience is keeping him awake at nights

ANd please dont post links to other forums. If something there is displayed that wouldnt be acceptable here...you'll get post restricted or banned. Just a friendly reminder.

[Akira 0]

Anti-Americanism

Interesting article. Thought it fitting in light of what denoir said and Tex responded to.

EDIT:</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"One girl turns and says, 'We were hoping you were Canadian.' Canadian? Since when was it cooler to be Canadian?"<span id='postcolor'>

ROFL