The Iraq Thread

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 25 2002,01:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't need to see the proof.  I understand why I can't see the proof too.<span id='postcolor'>

Why are you debating then? Without proof you can't convince anybody. Why are you even trying when you always fall back on that you can't give any proof. It seems very pointless to me

How do you expect anybody taking you seriously?

[Jinef 2]

It's christmas day and for some reason i'm arguing with an American teenager about world politics *bangs head on desk*.

How do you know you are going to be a combat pilot in 5 years?

When i went to sign up for the RAF and did all the tests, medicals and fitness exercises loads of people were dropped for the smallest reasons. You could develop repetitive strain injury from sitting at your keyboard annoying the Europeans and that could stop you getting into the forces.

I know i'm developing repetitive strain injury just from watching you get a point, back it up with passion, quickly contradict yourself, find another point, accuse everyone else of being wrong etc.

How can you be sure they have evidence, you are a civilian and they will not show you just so you can prove a point on an OFP forum! GWB is not the most savoury of characters, since he invited the Taliban to his ranch to discuss oil drilling methods! (Hint: don't accept an invitation to his ranch to discuss oil drilling - you will magically become terrorists )

Jinef *going to bed at last*

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ Dec. 24 2002,19:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know i'm developing repetitive strain injury just from watching you get a point, back it up with passion, quickly contradict yourself, find another point, accuse everyone else of being wrong etc.<span id='postcolor'>

Here's to your sense of humor!

My biggest wish for the next year would be a just resolution to all major mid-east problems. Wish wish... hmm... nothing.

[mr. Duck 0]

Here's a better wish... World peace... Wish wish... huh? nothing...

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ Dec. 25 2002,06:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why are you debating then? Without proof you can't convince anybody. Why are you even trying when you always fall back on that you can't give any proof. It seems very pointless to me

How do you expect anybody taking you seriously?<span id='postcolor'>

Because it's a serious problem, and it needs to be dealt with.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's christmas day and for some reason i'm arguing with an American teenager about world politics *bangs head on desk*.<span id='postcolor'>

Merry Christmas.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How do you know you are going to be a combat pilot in 5 years?

When i went to sign up for the RAF and did all the tests, medicals and fitness exercises loads of people were dropped for the smallest reasons. You could develop repetitive strain injury from sitting at your keyboard annoying the Europeans and that could stop you getting into the forces.<span id='postcolor'>

If I couldn't be a pilot, I'd be an officer, if I couldn't be an officer, I'd be an infantryman, if I couldn't be an infantryman I'd look into the missionary field.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know i'm developing repetitive strain injury just from watching you get a point, back it up with passion, quickly contradict yourself, find another point, accuse everyone else of being wrong etc.<span id='postcolor'>

Well there must be something to me if you're still here arguing, eh?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How can you be sure they have evidence, you are a civilian and they will not show you just so you can prove a point on an OFP forum! GWB is not the most savoury of characters, since he invited the Taliban to his ranch to discuss oil drilling methods! (Hint: don't accept an invitation to his ranch to discuss oil drilling - you will magically become terrorists )<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not sure that they have evidence. But I trust that they do because 1) they don't have any real reason to lie, and 2) I doubt the majority of the government would lie like this.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 24 2002,20:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I know i'm developing repetitive strain injury just from watching you get a point, back it up with passion, quickly contradict yourself, find another point, accuse everyone else of being wrong etc.<span id='postcolor'>

Well there must be something to me if you're still here arguing, eh?<span id='postcolor'>

Oh yeah, like the expectation that anyone using a computer and playing OFP should be able to reason some things out.

[FSPilot 0]

Or maybe the notion that everyone who has a different opinion is wrong and stupid.

[Frisbee 0]

Let's see,if now not only the us but israel too have proof,which,as they said :  

'He said that the information has not been fully verified. "We have some information to that effect. We are now working to confirm the information," he told Israel TV's Channel 2 in an excerpt of a program broadcast on the nightly news.

Hey look,a country which has a grudge against iraq and a country that wants the war in the first place have proof now!

IF there WAS substantial proof,why the hell aren't they showing it to the UN and get an entire coalitian ready to stomp Iraq?It's not like the UN security council or so would give out secrets about the source.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Frisbee @ Dec. 25 2002,07:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let's see,if now not only the us but israel too have proof,which,as they said :  

'He said that the information has not been fully verified. "We have some information to that effect. We are now working to confirm the information," he told Israel TV's Channel 2 in an excerpt of a program broadcast on the nightly news.

Hey look,a country which has a grudge against iraq and a country that wants the war in the first place have proof now!

IF there WAS substantial proof,why the hell aren't they showing it to the UN and get an entire coalitian ready to stomp Iraq?It's not like the UN security council or so would give out secrets about the source.<span id='postcolor'>

Did you even read what they said?

They said they don't have proof, they have information to that effect, and are working to confirm it.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 24 2002,20:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Or maybe the notion that everyone who has a different opinion is wrong and stupid.<span id='postcolor'>

No no no, I have been proved wrong and changed my opinion to the other side of the argument many times in the past, when it actually makes sense. Unfortunately your facts and opinions don't make logical sense to me so... it doesn't really matter, we can't all agree with each other on everything, if we did we would be a weak race.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Dec. 25 2002,07:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No no no, I have been proved wrong and changed my opinion to the other side of the argument many times in the past, when it actually makes sense.    Unfortunately your facts and opinions don't make logical sense to me so... it doesn't really matter, we can't all agree with each other on everything, if we did we would be a weak race.<span id='postcolor'>

I agree.

Let's agree to disagree, agreed?

[Frisbee 0]

Sigh...

I say only the us has 'proof' and then you post a link where it says that israel has something pointing towards proof;but doesn't have it yet.

Thank you for backing me up on that then.

(and no,I just browsed the article,guilty as charged,didn't read properly)

Still then,why not inform the UN with this so-called proof?

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote  

Ok keep it coming FS. I´d like to hear your opinions on this. You always tend to overread posts that dont fit you, so have a go on this one.

I dare you  

Where's your holiday spirit?  No triple dog dare?  Somone needs to watch "A Christmas Story".  

<span id='postcolor'>

Again you didnt refer to any of my questions. I am sorry to say so FS Pilot, but your view at the world and at your own government is very limited.

As you seem to be unable to argue beyond "my government would do nothing wrong" it is impossible to argue with you or even have a discussion. You are blocked and it is useless to argue with you as you only pick the things you like and totally ignore the things that don´t fit your line of seeing the things. Anyway I don´t care, but you maybe should think about yourself if a contribution to a topic is necessarry if you have nothing more to say than "my government would do no wrong, and they are trustworthy people".

According to your lack of military praxis and young age you should be a bit more listening to people that have actually made experiences in that part of human life.

Anyway I don´t care. I´ve seen what you are after and will not try to argue with you again. It is useless to try to do that with a blocked teenie.

Your general attitude towards this discussion reminds me very much of these 3 guys:

no offense, just my private opinion.

[Guest]

LOL, Bals. I was about to post the three monkeys yesteday, but never got around to it

[Balschoiw 0]

And I thought I would receive a 48 hour ban for it. Anyway I would have taken it as I was really in the need to say that.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 25 2002,01:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Frisbee @ Dec. 25 2002,02:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No, I've shown past examples where US foreign policy has shown to be hypocritical and in the wrong.<span id='postcolor'>

Ok, past examples don't dictate what's happening now.<span id='postcolor'>

Yet the US uses past examples of what Saddam has done to justify this war. You've used them yourself. Yet when the same logic is applied to the US it is not valid? right.

[DarkLight 0]

War is a strange thing...

Human beings get rewarded, honoured,... for killing other human beings.

I do not understand grown ups... I've been to France for a weekend to visit the beaches in Normandy. There's a nice museum in Caen (might be spelled wrong), in that museum there's a movie where they show old videos of real combat. It started with WW2 and i think it ended with Koweit (or something like that).

I've seen human beings starving, 2 soldiers getting shot by a sniper, some guy who barely had a head (he was dead, duh), some other guy (looked rather young) being killed by a vehicle that drove right over him and then drove away as if nothing happened, etc etc.

Why do some people insist on having war? I do not understand... War is no good at all, it hurts people, it hurts economy, it hurts everything.

Do you really believe Saddam would attack the US, while he knows for sure that attacking the US will be fatal for him?

Whole Europe has nuclear weapons, even Belgium has some (government denies this but pretty much everyone knows that we have some), if Saddam attacks an allied country with a weapon that he is not allowed to have, he'll get bombed to pieces before he knows it.

The US have many allied countries, an attack would be very very very fatal to Iraq, there's no reason for Iraq to attack, the only way Saddam can stay in his country is by staying calm and not attackign anyone...

Personally i'm getting pretty fucking sick of all this total bullshit, war is disgusting, any human being that wants war should be lynched rightaway.

Why attack him? WHY THE FUCK ATTACK HIM? Cuz you think he might have nasty weapons that he might use against allies who will probable destroy him if he does.

Too much "mights and thinks" in that last sentence if you ask me.

Who the hell are we to say that Iraq shouldn't have nuclear weapons, we are nothing/nobody/rien/niets!

We are not the dominators of this stupid world!!!

This whole damn world is sick, am i the only normal person here? Everytime someone says something against a war against Iraq everyone starts calling that person a Saddam lover who hates the US.

Well fuck you, i am no Saddam lover, i do not hate America, I HATE WAR.

This forum is full of Rambos...

Bah, i gotta go, will post more tomorrow or in 2 days...

PS:Please don't think i'm bashing the militairy cuz i'm not, armies are needed, even if there was worldpeace...

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">am i the only normal person here? <span id='postcolor'>

for sure not

I dont like the talks about war or not also. Most of the guys that are willing to support a war for all reasons are not in army. If they were they would think different. For sure there are always some guys who don´t think at all and only promote their patriotism.

Anyway Dark Light :

PAYDAY IS UP TO COME Got your 5000 Dollar´s handy ?

Dont´be too upset. People do talk a lot and forums at inernet are sometimes the only forum people have. So live with the ignorants. It´s worth a lot if you are able to move an opinion an inch to the opposite direction. Some people do this when they are offered information. Other dont and keep on with their blockhead. Dont care about it. That´s the way life is.

[Guest]

Kofi Annan: No 'argument' for war in Iraq right now

I wonder what happened to that big WMD report that Iraq handed out the other week. There was so much fuss about it and now nobody even mentiones it..

[FSPilot 0]

I heard that a lot of it was just repeating itself and it left a lot of questions unanswered.  Kinda like my psychology reports.

edit - it mentions it in your article

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The United Nations has until January 9 to assess fully the weapons declaration that Iraq submitted December 7. But chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix has said Iraq had failed to provide evidence in its declaration to prove that it no longer has weapons of mass destruction, and U.S. and British officials said it falls short of the complete accounting the Security Council has demanded. <span id='postcolor'>

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Dec. 15 2002,11:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This thread is getting pretty warm, i bet 5$ that it'll be closed before 2003...<span id='postcolor'>

I am waiting for the money order. Did you get my address?

Watched on TV today some peace activists returning from Iraq. They reported that every family they met does not want an attack to take place.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 31 2002,14:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I heard that a lot of it was just repeating itself and it left a lot of questions unanswered. Kinda like my psychology reports.

edit - it mentions it in your article

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The United Nations has until January 9 to assess fully the weapons declaration that Iraq submitted December 7. But chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix has said Iraq had failed to provide evidence in its declaration to prove that it no longer has weapons of mass destruction, and U.S. and British officials said it falls short of the complete accounting the Security Council has demanded. <span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

But it also mentions

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Annan said Iraqi officials appear to be cooperating. "We will soon figure out what is happening in Iraq," he said.

"[The inspectors] are able to do their work in an unimpeded manner. And therefore, I don't see an argument for military action now."

<span id='postcolor'>

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Jan. 02 2003,19:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They reported that every family they met does not want an attack to take place.  <span id='postcolor'>

My my, what a surprise

-Would you like us to drop some bombs on you?

-Umm.. no thanks.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Jan. 02 2003,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Jan. 02 2003,19:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They reported that every family they met does not want an attack to take place.  <span id='postcolor'>

My my, what a surprise

-Would you like us to drop some bombs on you?

-Umm.. no thanks.<span id='postcolor'>

I bet Saddam told them to say that or else!

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Jan. 02 2003,13:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Jan. 02 2003,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Jan. 02 2003,19:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They reported that every family they met does not want an attack to take place. <span id='postcolor'>

My my, what a surprise

-Would you like us to drop some bombs on you?

-Umm.. no thanks.<span id='postcolor'>

I bet Saddam told them to say that or else! <span id='postcolor'>

How much? Where are all the people saying things like that getting their facts from? Even scientists who would have hteir safety guaranteed by the west are denouncing any such claims.

There is absolutely no way all the families would be oo scared to say anything to peace activists in civilian clothes living with them and examining their invalid family members(caused by las gulf war and current strikes).

EDIT: People who are already suffering the ultimate price, from starvation and war, are not chicken shit like some sort I see everyday.