Helicopter camera

[PistFlyBoy 15]

I honesty feel like 1.70 (or the camera hotfix)  its like a bandage quickly applied over a wound who needs stitches... you cannot just simply change something like the camera from a day to another and expect everyone to relearn flying.

Yes We can relearn, but after 6000h well you know... do i really want to?

Of course im a first Person camera non happy guy, and i barely use the 3rd, But im talking about 1st person and the FOV varying with the speed which was also broken in the past patch and its getting close to no attention.

 

 

[Firebird-B4L 51]

Totally agree with PistFlyBoy's comment about the 1st person camera FOV being broken.  From the first-person piloting view one can zoom out in order to temporarily "put a bandaid" on this anomaly, but the default camera view should sit actually where the pilot's eyes are and not like your nose is smashed up against the windshield.

 

I realize the hotfix was a quick fix until a better solution was introduced, so this input is a couple of cents worth to add to the list of ideas to consider.

[Misconduct 99]

6 hours ago, romille1 said:

I'm going to assume that the longer this takes, that more players and pilots and masters and fishermen and master baiters and everyone in between is going to become familiar with and accustomed to the new camera.  I know Greenfist is finding it flawless and really likes it even from the original DLC pre-hotfix.  Wait what? 

 

But seriously, at least have an update with an option between the two cameras. (as quite a few comments on the subject are appearing on Misconduct's Youtube channel after the demo video that he so professionally narrated for us in that DJ radio voice,"Ahhh, blue skies, broken clouds, and here's another oldie but goody from ArmA and the Jets called 'Baby, don't touch my camera'. Yeaaaaaa)  .  Amazing flying as usual Misconduct :)

 

In all seriousness, how far this could go at Bohemia is exciting to think about for the guys who want a camera view that they like, not one that is going to change again.

 

The heli camera, as we've seen here, is a subject that not everyone agrees upon.  Whose to say that I'm right and you are wrong just because I'm used to it and like it more or visa versa you like the new look?

 

So if the two are not soon an option, why not go for the custom camera under: configure/options/camera in the game menu that pops up when you hit escape.

 

Low and behold, we should be getting paid for this.  No charge Bohemia, the awesomess of your game will always be enough for me.

BWAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!! Arma and the Jets;Baby,dont touch my camera! OMG I laughed so loud

[Greenfist 1863]

15 hours ago, romille1 said:

I'm going to assume that the longer this takes, that more players and pilots and masters and fishermen and master baiters and everyone in between is going to become familiar with and accustomed to the new camera.  I know Greenfist is finding it flawless and really likes it even from the original DLC pre-hotfix.  Wait what? 

 

Wait what? Where did I say I liked it before the hotfix? In fact, I said it was clearly broken then.

You seem to be running out of good arguments when you start making up bullshit about the people who disagree with you.

 

And since this thread is still going around in circles without adding anything new, I might as well repeat myself too: the current camera is way better for the sense of direction, worse for seasick people, and those couple of veteran master pilots who aren't able or refuse to learn anything new.

 

I'm sorry for adding to this rant thread. I hope there'll will be more constructive discussion after people start modding this or Bohemia states anything new on the matter or someone comes up with anything better than "it's garbage".

[imjust0ne 2]

most of time when i play arma i fly hilos... koth piloting was my arma most of time... and now its ruined... bring 1.68 back so i can enjoy arma agen

[alohaa 17]

hello from berlin.....:)

 

my vote goes to Misconduct (what a great pilot, love your vids man) and all the other pilots who want the old 1.68 camera back.

 

i got nearly 2000 hours in arma.

most of the time K.O.T.H.

in my opinion, its not worth to learn flying with the new camera.

i tryed it since the dlc is out. but its crap for me.

 

dont know if someone mentioned it or iam just retarded but if you ask me, there is a unusual inputlag on helis aswell since the dlc.

if i move the nose of the chopper in slow-flight-situations, its kinda oversteering (hope the word is right).

tryed to compensate it with the sensitivy-settings but then its fucked up for infantry.

 

so please BI, give us an Option to choose between the Camera-Modi.

I loved the way the camera works in 1.68 an i hate it now (even after the patch).

 

btw...sorry for bad english....;)

 

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by alohaa
corrections...:)

[deadlysilenceil 2]

Devs- listen to the people who actually play the game.

Allow the old (original) helicopter camera to be applied

Fix the VTOL to have classic or advanced.People with mouse and keyboard absolutely cannot fly anything VTOL anymore, its ridiculous. No testing on this??

Bring back the old VTOL mode and camera, allow advanced if people want it.

Don't shove garbage down peoples throats who don't want to taste your garbage. We paid good money for this game...

[Firebird-B4L 51]

12 hours ago, Greenfist said:

Wait what? Where did I say I liked it before the hotfix? In fact, I said it was clearly broken then.

You seem to be running out of good arguments when you start making up bullshit about the people who disagree with you.

 

My intention wasn't to make up male cow manure about anyone's statements on here.  

 

My intention was to point out that the opinions vary on the camera and there are players that like the new camera so BI should offer us both options, not just change it back to version 1.68 and call it quits.  

 

I used you as an example of one of the players that like the camera because you stated that the hotfix camera was "perfect".  You also stated early on that you didn't find much wrong with the DLC original camera as it was. 

 

If I misrepresented your view of the camera I apologize.

 

Now let's not go in circles, let's go forward.

 

[pooroldspike 129]

Let's look at it from Bohemia's perspective-

As dev Oukej said on page 5, jet pilots like the 1.70 hotfix view.

And from this thread's feedback it seems a fair number of ordinary chopper pilots like it too (as I do myself).

However the only chopper pilots who don't like it are the "slalom" fliers who like to thread their way around tree trunks and lampposts rather than go over them.

So overall it seems the majority of players (jet jocks and ordinery chopper fliers) like it, and it's therefore doubtful if Boh will revert to 1.68 just to please the slalomer minority..

Let's hope they solve it at a stroke by simply providing an ingame preference to let players select 1.68 or 1.70.

Anyway Boh have got other things on their plate right now, as there are no less than 24 pages of feedback gripes about Jets DLC for them to work through, plus of course there remains the issue of getting the Titan AA and the Blackfish VTOL working properly again after the 1.70 game upgrade..;)

PS- I can understand why jet jocks and ordinary chopper pilots like 1.70; it creates a realistic feel of weight, inertia and g-force as your stomach goes up and down like a yo-yo, and your eyeballs pop in and out and you really feel as if you're in a bucking heaving flying machine, whereas with the old 1.68 view the choppers seemed to have no feeling of weight, and felt as insubstantial and lightweight as houseflies. 

I predict more and more slalom fliers will come to like the 1.70 view and master it easily enough..:)

 

[ComancheBlue 30]

2 hours ago, pooroldspike said:

whereas with the old 1.68 view the choppers seemed to have no feeling of weight, and felt as insubstantial and lightweight as houseflies.

That is actually how I feel like they handle as of right now.

Slalom flying with this new camera is quite tricky and not very fun at all to be quite frank. I cant really put my finger on what it is that feels so wrong with it; perhaps it lacks the fluidity the camera in 1.68 offered.

Its hard to say since there's no way as of now to go back and compare in the actual game.

[alohaa 17]

@ComancheBlue

" Its hard to say since there's no way as of now to go back and compare in the actual game. "

 

there is the oportunity to go back to 1.68 legacy directly in steam.

but you will only be able to fly in the editor......i think the most servers are on 1.70 now.

but if there are servers out with 1.68....you can play there with the old camera-settings.

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by alohaa
...

[PistFlyBoy 15]

7 hours ago, pooroldspike said:

PS- I can understand why jet jocks and ordinary chopper pilots like 1.70; it creates a realistic feel of weight, inertia and g-force as your stomach goes up and down like a yo-yo, and your eyeballs pop in and out and you really feel as if you're in a bucking heaving flying machine, whereas with the old 1.68 view the choppers seemed to have no feeling of weight, and felt as insubstantial and lightweight as houseflies. 

I predict more and more slalom fliers will come to like the 1.70 view and master it easily enough..:)

 

 

If you are referring to 3rd person camera, MAYBE.

 

But 1st person with this update (POST JET-DLC and now still) its utterly disgusting, the head doesn't move at all (or just a touch), you jump into the helicopter you are all ZOOMED into the canopy, you have to manually zoom urself out, and ofc when your FOV is fully out, you cannot perceive the space around you properly cause of the dilatation of the image. (NO ITS NOT THE DAMN BLUR IM TALKING ABOUT)

1st person camera USED to move back and forth based on speed in the PRE-JET DLC and WE  "1st PErson Slalom Pilot" LOVED IT!

 

Romille said it too:

On 5/31/2017 at 6:59 PM, romille1 said:

From the first-person piloting view one can zoom out in order to temporarily "put a bandaid" on this anomaly, but the default camera view should sit actually where the pilot's eyes are and not like your nose is smashed up against the windshield.

 

 

----break  /  break----

And please refrain from the "Buy a track IR" cause no thanks.

 

Also i don't wanna sound like a douche to ordinary flyers, but they can fly in either conditions. Normal takeoff to cruise flight to standard approach everyone can do that.

 

The so Called slalom Fliers, who flies low by necessity (avoiding AA for example) or just for PURE FUN are the one screwed right now.

Plus most likely the Slalom-er minority has more time played combined then all the average arma 3 flyer, and the slalom-er spent more hours in the editor training under those poles then you in the whole game.

Don` t take this from the wrong side, its not bragging or willing to turn you down, its more you gotta understand the dedication of some people, instead of splitting their time in different games they only play this one, and they only fly helos, because they are passionate.

 

 

What you are liking right now its something that is BROKEN, they broke the view cause they changed the jet view in the game engine without thinking about it, they were lucky that some people who appear to test it liked it, if it was intended to be this screwed they wouldn't have rolled out a "broken FIX",

Just the fact the CAMERA during AUTO ROTATION was totally into the ground perfectly prove my point. You cant even see your landing zone (you can now with the fix  but thats not the point), whoever gave feedback on that helicopter camera clearly had no idea what he was saying, all respect given to whom take time to test, but the proof here is blatant.

 

Anyway, Had to adapt to a lot of changes in the past, They kept the pre-jet dlc 1st person and 3rd person camera for so long the same way, you cant just blow it up like this.

 

 

[ComancheBlue 30]

2 hours ago, alohaa said:

@ComancheBlue

there is the oportunity to go back to 1.68 legacy directly in steam.

How do I go about doing that?

[alohaa 17]

@ComancheBlue

 

rightklick arma3....go to properties.....in the properties choose the Button "Betas" (upper right i think).

 

Go to the Field "Code" and type in " Arma3Legacy168".

After that, use the Dropdownmenu above the "Code"- Field and choose Arma 3 1.68 legacy.

 

Hope thats right.

Iam at work and cannot check it in Steam.

 

[MK84 42]

2 hours ago, PistFlyBoy said:

But 1st person with this update (POST JET-DLC and now still) its utterly disgusting, the head doesn't move at all (or just a touch), you jump into the helicopter you are all ZOOMED into the canopy, you have to manually zoom urself out, and ofc when your FOV is fully out, you cannot perceive the space around you properly cause of the dilatation of the image. (NO ITS NOT THE DAMN BLUR IM TALKING ABOUT)

1st person camera USED to move back and forth based on speed in the PRE-JET DLC and WE  "1st PErson Slalom Pilot" LOVED IT!

 

For you perhaps. For me personally a fixed first person camera that doesn't change with speed is preferable.  

Also,

LCTRL + Numpad Up/Down/Left/Right/PgUp/PgDown adjusts your head position. Note this won't work with TFAR running. You'll need to bind it to something else.

[oukej 2911]

I'm sorry but atm we won't be reintroducing the FoV changes with speed. The change has been based on numerous complains about induced sickness, loosing perception of speed, distance, sometimes zooming out too far that the instruments become unreadable. Saying that we're well aware that the initial view in several helicopters is not good, way too much forward. Including the xh-9 family, but no only - the xh-9s are not the only helicopters we need to care about. We'd like to improve that. .

Thanks everyone for the continued comments and feedback on the 3rd person!
Often you're suggesting an ingame option - tbh we'd like to avoid that. It would increase the required manpower on the issue quite a bit (maintenance across sandbox, testing) and we don't have that.

[EDcase 87]

So you are going to remove the FoV change altogether?

Thats good because the current change at 25kph is awful.

Better not to have any at all.

[oukej 2911]

2 hours ago, EDcase said:

Thats good because the current change at 25kph is awful.

pls see

 

[EDcase 87]

5 minutes ago, oukej said:

pls see

 

Ah, thanks Oukej

[RacerX 55]

4 hours ago, EDcase said:

Better not to have any at all.

I Totally agree 100% with this statement remove the FOV change. (Not using any mods)

EDIT: with the complaints by some about motion sickness is it possible its to realistic? BI has some braggin rights now :P 

"Our helicopter's were so realistic we had to turn down the "realistic" settings"

[Firebird-B4L 51]

Thanks for hearing our feedback and continuing to work on this Oukej and the BI team.  

 

There's an old saying that will apply "You can't please everyone all the time" but it seems like you are trying to get this fixed based on feedback across the board and looking at the big picture.  

 

Maybe the in-game customization can go on the backburner or at least be considered for Arma IV: World War III

[pooroldspike 129]

13 hours ago, PistFlyBoy said:

...most likely the Slalom-er minority has more time played combined then all the average arma 3 flyer, and the slalom-er spent more hours in the editor training under those poles then you in the whole game.

 

Yes there are some great slalomer chopper pilots in the KOTH servers, but sadly the majority of slalomers are not so good (although they think they are), and usually end up crashing into a tree or house etc, and voice chat is full of curses from the barbecued passengers..:)

In fact, when passengers hop into a chopper at base, they often say- "Please don't land, let us jump!"

PS- in fact para-jumping is safer even if there are SAMs and cannon-firing AA about, because chopper pilots could bring in their passengers to the outskirts of the objective area at high speed underneath SAM/AA coverage just above tree-height, then quickly zoom up to jump height (100 metres), and with any luck the passengers can jump out before SAMs/AA have had time to lock on..:)

 

[pingopete 26]

On 6/1/2017 at 1:41 AM, PistFlyBoy said:

I honesty feel like 1.70 (or the camera hotfix)  its like a bandage quickly applied over a wound who needs stitches... you cannot just simply change something like the camera from a day to another and expect everyone to relearn flying.

Yes We can relearn, but after 6000h well you know... do i really want to?

Of course im a first Person camera non happy guy, and i barely use the 3rd, But im talking about 1st person and the FOV varying with the speed which was also broken in the past patch and its getting close to no attention.

 

 

No that was a fix for the unrealistic FOV that was tied to speed, which I absolutely hated and which I among others are extremely grateful for. It made reading instruments next to impossible and looked ridiculous in jets. Please don't ask them to un-do something that was just fixed when you can easily key bind a toggle zoom out if you need too for landings or whatnot.

[Misconduct 99]

13 hours ago, oukej said:

I'm sorry but atm we won't be reintroducing the FoV changes with speed. The change has been based on numerous complains about induced sickness, loosing perception of speed, distance, sometimes zooming out too far that the instruments become unreadable. Saying that we're well aware that the initial view in several helicopters is not good, way too much forward. Including the xh-9 family, but no only - the xh-9s are not the only helicopters we need to care about. We'd like to improve that. .

Thanks everyone for the continued comments and feedback on the 3rd person!
Often you're suggesting an ingame option - tbh we'd like to avoid that. It would increase the required manpower on the issue quite a bit (maintenance across sandbox, testing) and we don't have that.

Can we get some indication as to what is going to happen here? Are we getting something identical to 1.68 camera?

Avoiding in game option... what does that mean? You aren't working on a 1.68 option for this? I really wish there was an update on progress or BI's thoughts about this more often, we are waiting in the dark here.

[Misconduct 99]

On 6/1/2017 at 4:43 PM, pooroldspike said:

Let's look at it from Bohemia's perspective-

As dev Oukej said on page 5, jet pilots like the 1.70 hotfix view.

And from this thread's feedback it seems a fair number of ordinary chopper pilots like it too (as I do myself).

However the only chopper pilots who don't like it are the "slalom" fliers who like to thread their way around tree trunks and lampposts rather than go over them.

So overall it seems the majority of players (jet jocks and ordinery chopper fliers) like it, and it's therefore doubtful if Boh will revert to 1.68 just to please the slalomer minority..

Let's hope they solve it at a stroke by simply providing an ingame preference to let players select 1.68 or 1.70.

Anyway Boh have got other things on their plate right now, as there are no less than 24 pages of feedback gripes about Jets DLC for them to work through, plus of course there remains the issue of getting the Titan AA and the Blackfish VTOL working properly again after the 1.70 game upgrade..;)

PS- I can understand why jet jocks and ordinary chopper pilots like 1.70; it creates a realistic feel of weight, inertia and g-force as your stomach goes up and down like a yo-yo, and your eyeballs pop in and out and you really feel as if you're in a bucking heaving flying machine, whereas with the old 1.68 view the choppers seemed to have no feeling of weight, and felt as insubstantial and lightweight as houseflies. 

I predict more and more slalom fliers will come to like the 1.70 view and master it easily enough..:)

 

I would say that the unpredicted and unintended change to the 3 year old camera should be priority number one, it shouldn't matter what the general feel of the feedback is, BI fundamentally changed the game and its appearance, I for one bought Arma because of its long range beauty, I simply cant look at it anymore, and it frustrates me to no end to hear people suggest that we get used to it or adapt, because we simply shouldn't HAVE to.

 

My full dedication to this game was thrown away overnight by a massive oversight and under response to our pleas (not to mention those who roll over and take it, while suggesting that everyone else rollover and take it). Im not saying my opinion matters more than others but I just want people to understand more of the impact, which is that every single 3rd person video on youtube advertising this game for Bohemia is now an outdated and meaningless video.

 

Maybe I'm just bitchy because my loyalty to this game - (i.e. my game time and youtube channel) - means nothing now. Re-learn? I can, but I'm more inclined to find a game developer that respects their own product enough not to shit on it, and if they do, fix it for those who gave their time and money to them.