Helicopter camera

[Firebird-B4L 51]

I've been spending time in the hotfix camera flying around in a Pawnee.

 

The hotfix camera is interesting with a Pawnee in 3rd person.  From a Pawnee pilots style of flight it is worth some more time investigating (but still not liking first-person view and how it is zoomed in so much--I know you can zoom out to compensate, but that gives it a distorted fish-eye lens effect--with the old camera you didn't have to zoom out at high speeds--it zoomed out automatically as speed increased without the fish-eye lens effect).  

 

I'm not saying the hotfix can be better than the old camera at all, I'm saying I could go to third person in the Pawnee and have an interesting perspective while I fired at hopeless AI targets sitting in their vehicles.  It was worth spending more time in the hotfix 3rd person to see if this camera could allow for better third person attack heli fighting. 

 

I'll be the first to admit I'm not the go-to guy for the Pawnee feedback, check to see if the master Pawnee pilots like it or not. 

 

However, for the hummingbird the hotfix camera is not the right camera for dazzling, amazing, bad-ass, hotshot, know it all and arrogant master pilot quick, low altitude landings (count me in).   

 

On the other side of the coin, in the hummingbird, for regular flight, parachuting, and slower, more calculated landings (and for the guys that just bought the game who don't know what they are missing)--you can make it work of course.    

 

I'm trying to open my mind and let this new jets hotfix camera have a chance.  But I just can't see it ever giving a non-attack helicopter pilot the full potential for awesomeness that the previous camera did, as proofed many times in Misconduct's vidoes and by the dazzled reactions of his passengers that he transported safely into the explosive hotzone and to the tops of towers.

 

  

[RacerX 55]

You guys know they are going to fix the camera further right? 

[Trimmer 28]

27 minutes ago, RacerX said:

You guys know they are going to fix the camera further right? 

 

I don't know... Did they state that they're actually going to make more adjustments?

I'm kinda in a hurry right now otherwise I'd go back and look through the threads, but I thought so far they've only acknowledged that some of us still aren't satisfied and that they're monitoring the feedback. I may have missed something they've said.

[Nyll 2]

Please return the camera that was in patch 1.68

[pooroldspike 129]

Well guys I just bought the full version of FRAPS to get unlimited video time, and made this video.

This is with the 1.70 Hotfix and as you can see, the horizon yo-yo's a little bit but it doesn't bother me and I have no trouble landing that Mohawk on a soccer pitch, so if I can do it after only about 4 days practice anybody can because there are pilots out there who are better than me.

(Like I said earlier, I can live with both the old 1.68 static horizon and the new 1.70 Hotfix yo-yoing horizon, ideally BI could give us an ingame option to switch to whichever people prefer).

PS- the vid is only 1min:35secs long, but it took about 6 friggin hours to upload to youtube via broadband! 

Is such a long time normal, or am I doing something wrong?

And the colours look a bit washed out on my monitor, and the definition is bad in fullscreen, does the vid look alright to you?  

 

 

[Misconduct 99]

59 minutes ago, pooroldspike said:

Well guys I just bought the full version of FRAPS to get unlimited video time, and made this video.

This is with the 1.70 Hotfix and as you can see, the horizon yo-yo's a little bit but it doesn't bother me and I have no trouble landing that Mohawk on a soccer pitch, so if I can do after only about 4 days practice anybody can because there are pilots out there who are better than me.

(Like I said earlier, I can live with both the old 1.68 static horizon and the new 1.70 Hotfix yo-yoing horizon, ideally BI could give us an ingame option to switch to whichever people prefer).

PS- the vid is only 1min:35secs long, but it took about 6 friggin hours to upload to youtube via broadband! 

Is such a long time normal, or am I doing something wrong?

And the colours look a bit washed out on my monitor, and the definition is bad in fullscreen, does the vid look alright to you?  

 

 

 

You might need a higher upload speed from your internet provider. My 15 min videos take 15min to upload to youtube, if that long.

The quality issue is probably FRAPS, I know nothing about it but Instant Replay (prev. Shadowplay) gives me full game quality which then gets bumped down to 50FPS after editing (VSDC free video editor)(full version gets 60FPS)

 

The issue at hand: I realize you are OK with the new update but you also are OK with 1.68, what made you find this post if you don't care?

I hope you will join us in asking the developers to not change such a fundamental aspect of the gameplay... or at least give us the option of 1.68 camera.

 

Devs, please stop hitting your beautiful creation with the ugly stick.

1.68 FTW!!

 

Misconduct

[pooroldspike 129]

1 hour ago, Misconduct said:

The issue at hand: I realize you are OK with the new update but you also are OK with 1.68, what made you find this post if you don't care?

I hope you will join us in asking the developers to not change such a fundamental aspect of the gameplay... or at least give us the option of 1.68 camera.

 

This thread is titled 'Helicopter camera' so on page 1 I jumped in to have a bash at 1.70 and said- 

"...the...external camera view is now messed up...because the camera stays pointing in the direction the nose is pointing, which means we lose sight of the ground when flaring for landing etc."

Later BI brought out the 1.70 Hotfix which greatly improved the view and I can live with it.

If BI revert to 1.68 I can live with that too.

But as I've also said, the ideal solution would be for BI to have both views in the game like flight sims do, so players can choose which one they want to play with..:)

[Firebird-B4L 51]

Nice video Spike and nice flying and landing.  Would fly with you any day of the week.  Your video was in 720HP and the quality was fine for your landing demo here, but could be better if you ever get famous on You Tube, haha.  Be careful, now your going to develop the editing and uploading to You Tube addiction.  It's a lot of fun. 

 

One day I'm going to post a video of a master/crazy Mowhawk pilot called Token Abassi.  I've saved a few shadowplays or instant replays rather of some of my latest encounters with him.  I've never met his equal.  If you ever see him in game hop in his heli.  You may explode in a rare case, but either way it will be well worth the ride--not only for the music but for the roller coaster of an experience and a landing that will leave you with your jaw on the ground as you stare up as he flies away thinking, no way (I used to always see him on HT servers when I played there before I went to CodeFourGaming for better frames).  That is, before this new Jet camera got here.

 

Back to topic: I can still fly with this hotfix, but want the old camera back simply because it was better, not only in first, but also in third.

 

One thing i do like about the 3rd person is that it does sit a little closer to the tail of the heli.  But i think that is what is screwing up the 1st person being too zoomed in, like your nose is pressed to the windshield.  Hate that so much.  You need three monitors in the upright position to make it practical.  Fisheye zooming out in case you missed that part.

 

Misconduct said it extremely well and to the point in his most recent post.

 

Give us the old camera, or give us death.

 

--Firebird

 

 

[Misconduct 99]

1 hour ago, pooroldspike said:

 

This thread is titled 'Helicopter camera' so on page 1 I jumped in to have a bash at 1.70 and said- 

"...the...external camera view is now messed up...because the camera stays pointing in the direction the nose is pointing, which means we lose sight of the ground when flaring for landing etc."

Later BI brought out the 1.70 Hotfix which greatly improved the view and I can live with it.

If BI revert to 1.68 I can live with that too.

But as I've also said, the ideal solution would be for BI to have both views in the game like flight sims do, so players can choose which one they want to play with..:)

Fair enough, 1.70 got a lot of us here, I guess Im just hoping more people express that they are not ok with any update to the helis, but you are entitled to be ok with it if you like it. I'm just desperate to play again and i just cant, moreover my current youtube channel is nothing more than "the way Arma 3 used to look". I guess that dream is dying. (sniffle)

[nodunit 397]

11 hours ago, romille1 said:

I know you can zoom out to compensate, but that gives it a distorted fish-eye lens effect--with the old camera you didn't have to zoom out at high speeds--it zoomed out automatically as speed increased without the fish-eye lens effect). 

While not automatic, have you tried using using the DOF in place of zoom? 
Holding control+ numpad 2 will physically move your camera back, so you don't get the fisheye effect.

[Greenfist 1863]

Now, a few days after the hotfix, I must say I really like the new camera. Not only is it smoother to the eye when you don't feel so detached from your vehicle, but it also gives a much better awareness about your orientation. The moving horizon indicates the helicopter's pitch at all times even when you're not looking at it. This has always been a minor problem for me with the old 3rd person camera, since tight situations might induce tunnel vision and make you fixated on something else on the screen. Of course, the choppers don't move unpredictably, so with enough practise you should know the orientation based on your input alone. But all copters have different flight model, so flying blindly isn't really possible, unless you fly only one single copter all the time.

 

I can totally understand that the new camera might cause motion sickness to sensitive people. Maybe it should be optional, but then again, there's never been a separate option for such a small thing in this game. So I'm pretty sure whatever the final form is, it'll be the only one available, unfortunately.

 

And I can also see how any change in the game makes some people upset just because something has changed, regardless of whether it's for the better or worse. But so far, most of the serious players have still survived, adapted, and won when it comes to all the past new features, like fatigue/stamina, weapon sway, weapon inertia, visual update, audio update, sensors, targeting, soldier protection, aircraft damage model, fixed-wing flying, new weapons and vehicles, 3D editor, etc.

This seems to be case with the camera too, because the complaints have practically stopped since the hotfix. Or perhaps the majority of players don't even mind either way, because they fly in first person, or generally do something else too other than fly Pawnees/Hummingbirds on KOTH for living, or maybe they see it as an improvement like me.

 

In my opinion, if anyone claims to have truly mastered something, they are certainly able master some more and adapt to new things too. You can teach an old dog new tricks.

 

 

1 hour ago, nodunit said:

While not automatic, have you tried using using the DOF in place of zoom? 
Holding control+ numpad 2 will physically move your camera back, so you don't get the fisheye effect.

+1 to this. Although, moving backwards doesn't really change the fov, but it definitely makes the cockpit feel less claustrophobic. Even more so when you move your whole head out of the chopper. :)

[teabagginpeople 398]

Tested yesterday using the Helicopter scenario and gunship. 

 

I agree with green. For helicopter scenario I was able to dispatch the mission objectives mortar nice awareness when engaging the ground. Used 3rd person view for testing landing with it (after hotfix no lost view of the ground) threw the heli into a fast low 180 and dropped off the troops to try see what the fuss is about . Camera wise before the fix /on dev branch had to be alot more careful only because of camera,  but with hotfix couldn't find anything difficult about it.

 

If it is a trade of between this right now and jets camera I'm quite happy with it. It might take a short time for some to adapt . but in its current state after hotfix it is not nearly as big as other changes that needed to be adapted to. in fact I say bravo to the team on fixing this issue. maybe the original oversight was a blessing in disguise. They may actually have stumbled across making  some areas of helis(attack helis)  more efficient . 

[Misconduct 99]

Bohemia are you going to chime in here?

1.68 view as an option?

 

[pooroldspike 129]

10 hours ago, Misconduct said:

Fair enough, 1.70 got a lot of us here, I guess Im just hoping more people express that they are not ok with any update to the helis, but you are entitled to be ok with it if you like it. I'm just desperate to play again and i just cant, moreover my current youtube channel is nothing more than "the way Arma 3 used to look". I guess that dream is dying. (sniffle)

And for the record, me and other players are complaining like crazy in other threads about the fiddly new 1.70 Blackfish VTOL vectoring controls and the hopeless new Titan AA lockon routine.

Both issues have seriously impacted the KOTH servers because hardly anybody can fly the Blackfish any more, and the jets in there are now almost impossible to shoot down with Titan AA's and the whole game is therefore badly unbalanced in favour of jets which are now far too powerful. 

All the KOTH game designers original careful work has therefore now gone out the window so unless BI fix the Blackfish and the Titan AA's he'll have to do a re-write to take the new 1.70 issues into account.

BTW, I used to play the hugely popular 'Combat Mission Barbarossa to Berlin' computer wargame for 10 years and the designers never updated it in any way in all that time because it was so good

Yet BI seem to be updating Arma3 every 5 minutes and it's getting on a lot of peoples wicks including mine, because it means everything that's gone before like vids and tutorials are now almost worthless because they only apply to earlier versions.

For that reason my 11-page 'Weapon tests' thread is now ancient history and basically useless (sniffle)-

https://forums.bistudio.com/forums/topic/165403-weapon-tests/

 

[teabagginpeople 398]

38 minutes ago, pooroldspike said:

 

Both issues have seriously impacted the KOTH servers because hardly anybody can fly the Blackfish any more, 

I have played on many servers and players jump in and try fly a transport heli and kill a lot of people. the people who died they do not say bis needs to change the helis to be easier to fly, they tell the person they need to go train more before flying. now I understand that bis has made the adjustments to the Blackfish after release. these changes need time for people to adjust and learn how to use them this is all. then it'll be back to flying them no problem. you can take away jets flaps and air brake hell make the landing gear automatic make the less "fiddly". doesn't mean better.

 

Quote

 

 

and the jets in there are now almost impossible to shoot down with Titan AA's and the whole game is therefore badly unbalanced in favour of jets which are now far too powerful. 

are you suggesting Jets. these multi million dollar highly dangerous instruments of war should be castrated just to fit the unrealistic expectations of a hand held AA launcher? you start down that road why not make a tank take 1 titan to kill ? hell an rpg? 

 

Quote

All the KOTH game designers original careful work has therefore now gone out the window so unless BI fix the Blackfish and the Titan AA's he'll have to do a re-write to take the new 1.70 issues into account.

so will Altis life, Wasteland, Invade and Annex , Patrol Ops,Insurgency ,Warfare, Zeus.  you see what I'm getting at here?

Quote

 

 

Yet BI seem to be updating Arma3 every 5 minutes and it's getting on a lot of peoples wicks including mine, because it means everything that's gone before like vids and tutorials are now almost worthless because they only apply to earlier versions.

For example my 'Weapon tests' thread is now ancient history and basically useless-

 

 

they added 64 bit? someday soon new tank systems and physx? top down titans ? will these all be issues because somebody has to learn to use the new changes?

[pooroldspike 129]

16 minutes ago, teabagginpeople said:

...someday soon new tank systems and physx? top down titans ? will these all be issues because somebody has to learn to use the new changes?

 

Ah, but Arma3 1.68 was like a beautiful woman and didn't need any changes..:)

I once dated a woman who did need changes because she always wore oldfashioned clothes and horrible flat shoes, so I bought her a pair of sexy high heels but she refused to wear them, so I ditched her.

Pity because I was planning to buy her a Wonder Woman outfit too (sniffle)

[Trimmer 28]

7 hours ago, Misconduct said:

Bohemia are you going to chime in here?

1.68 view as an option?

 

 

I'm asking too... A little input would be nice. Anything we can expect or do we just sit in the dark?

I haven't been playing for any significant amount of time since the Jets DLC was released, with the exception of some really frustrating attempts at adapting to the last 2 views you dished to us. I can fly my heli in this view better than "most" pilots I see ever could in either view, but that's beside my frustration. I believe it's easier for an "OK" pilot to adapt than it is for some more dedicated Arma 3rd person pilots. Particularly veteran Pawnee and Hummingbird pilots in this case. Rather than puffing my chest and talking about how my time investment to reach a certain skill level has tanked, I have to point out again... Misconduct- probably but arguably the best 3rd person view Hummingbird/Pawnee pilot that has been entertaining over 6,000 people using Arma 3's 1.68 helicopter view, is no longer doing so... I can't help but to think that justifies a particular amount of attention and priority, but that's just my opinion... Of course there will be people that like this or that, but I think the amount of time a person invests into your product shows a certain amount of loyalty, and I guess we'll see if that's something Bohemia Interactive values or not... I'm sure many of us would like to know.

[Greenfist 1863]

Well then I guess my opinion weights the most, because I've been buying and playing Bohemia's products for the last 16 years.  

 

On more serious note, the improved camera is pretty much a non-issue,  since despite the 400,000 regular players, this thread has only four people opposing it. 

[Misconduct 99]

7 hours ago, teabagginpeople said:

I have played on many servers and players jump in and try fly a transport heli and kill a lot of people. the people who died they do not say bis needs to change the helis to be easier to fly, they tell the person they need to go train more before flying. now I understand that bis has made the adjustments to the Blackfish after release. these changes need time for people to adjust and learn how to use them this is all. then it'll be back to flying them no problem. you can take away jets flaps and air brake hell make the landing gear automatic make the less "fiddly". doesn't mean better.

 

are you suggesting Jets. these multi million dollar highly dangerous instruments of war should be castrated just to fit the unrealistic expectations of a hand held AA launcher? you start down that road why not make a tank take 1 titan to kill ? hell an rpg? 

 

so will Altis life, Wasteland, Invade and Annex , Patrol Ops,Insurgency ,Warfare, Zeus.  you see what I'm getting at here?

they added 64 bit? someday soon new tank systems and physx? top down titans ? will these all be issues because somebody has to learn to use the new changes?

It is not simply a change with some technical aspect of the physics in the game... its that the beautiful 3rd person flying INCLUDING a steady horizon made many of us buy/keep playing for years... now it is gone and to those who say they can adapt I would suggest never really flew well to begin with. There are a few dedicated pilots who understand what a fundamental change this is, and youtubers like myself &  romille1 (Firebird)  who has an excellent showcase of how beautiful this game is (was), now his footage (flying) is outdated because it no longer looks like that.

 

... and I didnt suggest it but , YES castrate them & the jets are not multi-million dollars, they are tens of thousands in GAME which is the part that matters, it is still a game. Maybe a mil sim group would appreciate a jets dominance in a realistic scenario, but KOTH and every other version of Arma has NOTHING to do with realism, very noticeable when you magically teleport into a flying jet 2km from viable targets and in weapons range.

 

This is not a simple get used to it scenario as we have all done in the past, this is a fundamental change to the way we observe the game, and its now ugly.

[Misconduct 99]

3 hours ago, Trimmer said:

 

I'm asking too... A little input would be nice. Anything we can expect or do we just sit in the dark?

I haven't been playing for any significant amount of time since the Jets DLC was released, with the exception of some really frustrating attempts at adapting to the last 2 views you dished to us. I can fly my heli in this view better than "most" pilots I see ever could in either view, but that's beside my frustration. I believe it's easier for an "OK" pilot to adapt than it is for some more dedicated Arma 3rd person pilots. Particularly veteran Pawnee and Hummingbird pilots in this case. Rather than puffing my chest and talking about how my time investment to reach a certain skill level has tanked, I have to point out again... Misconduct- probably but arguably the best 3rd person view Hummingbird/Pawnee pilot that has been entertaining over 6,000 people using Arma 3's 1.68 helicopter view, is no longer doing so... I can't help but to think that justifies a particular amount of attention and priority, but that's just my opinion... Of course there will be people that like this or that, but I think the amount of time a person invests into your product shows a certain amount of loyalty, and I guess we'll see if that's something Bohemia Interactive values or not... I'm sure many of us would like to know.

Brought a tear to my eye man, thank you for the kind support! I really do love this game, and I want to showcase its beauty to more people.

 

Agreed, if others find it easy to adapt I must immediately question their previous abilities, at the very least I have to question how much time they've put in.

 

For me, learning this is like flying an RC helicopter while standing on a raft at sea...

 

...in other words: it may be subtle, but it is nothing like it used to be

 

"I think the amount of time a person invests into your product shows a certain amount of loyalty, and I guess we'll see if that's something Bohemia Interactive values or not..."

Here's hoping Bohemia has loyalty too.

 

Misconduct

[teabagginpeople 398]

5 minutes ago, Misconduct said:

It is not simply a change with some technical aspect of the physics in the game... its that the beautiful 3rd person flying INCLUDING a steady horizon 

 

... and I didnt suggest it but , YES castrate them & the jets are not multi-million dollars, they are tens of thousands in GAME which is the part that matters, it is still a only a game.

Really it's just a game huh. One would wonder how much you believe this statement with all the emotional posts you have made regarding a slight camera change.

 

You suggest castrate jets to suit your gameplay forget what others enjoy. yet expect others to give a shit about your camera issue that 4 people have posted about after getting hotfix and being still not happy?

 

5 minutes ago, Misconduct said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe a mil sim group would appreciate a jets dominance in a realistic scenario, but KOTH and every other version of Arma has NOTHING to do with realism, very noticeable when you magically teleport into a flying jet 2km from viable targets and in weapons range.

Lots of co op and other pvp missions have no problem with jets being well jets.  Here's an idea other people hop in a jet and shoot the jet down. See how that works for a game and in real life. A smart guy once said real life can be the greatest form of inspiration for gameplay balance . 

 

5 minutes ago, Misconduct said:

 

This is not a simple get used to it scenario as we have all done in the past, this is a fundamental change to the way we observe the game, and its now ugly.

It is really simple. look at all the people adapting already after hotfix. Who exactly is the we? Are you speaking for the collective or some voted representation of the we.

 

[Misconduct 99]

3 hours ago, Greenfist said:

Well then I guess my opinion weights the most, because I've been buying and playing Bohemia's products for the last 16 years.  

 

On more serious note, the improved camera is pretty much a non-issue,  since despite the 400,000 regular players, this thread has only four people opposing it. 

Interesting how you use real numbers for those who have the game, and extremely loose numbers (4, which is incorrect if you count) to completely sum up the opposition.

 

On this page of this thread at this time; there are 6 people opposed to the change and hotfix, and 2 who like it, and one who I'm not sure about. You make the large assumption that 400 000 people are happy, when they simply havn't chimed in on either side yet.

... lol but who cares about facts, when your opinion weighs the most!

 

Also leading in with "my opinion weights the most" suggests that one opinion SHOULD outweigh others, so, none of your original statistics could possibly mean anything according to your own theory.

[Misconduct 99]

16 minutes ago, teabagginpeople said:

Really it's just a game huh. One would wonder how much you believe this statement with all the emotional posts you have made regarding a slight camera change.

 

You suggest castrate jets to suit your gameplay forget what others enjoy. yet expect others to give a shit about your camera issue that 4 people have posted about after getting hotfix and being still not happy?

 

Lots of co op and other pvp missions have no problem with jets being well jets.  Here's an idea other people hop in a jet and shoot the jet down. See how that works for a game and in real life. A smart guy once said real life can be the greatest form of inspiration for gameplay balance . 

 

It is really simple. look at all the people adapting already after hotfix. Who exactly is the we? Are you speaking for the collective or some voted representation of the we.

 

My post are emotional because I love this GAME, and it just got very ugly.

An amateur pilot would call that a "slight" camera change, I'm sure you barely noticed it.

As far as the castration goes, I really don't care what happens to Jets - I just noticed you call them multimillion dollar dangerous instruments of war and I thought that was absurd, video games like these are caricatures of real life but in a "paper, rock, scissors" style of strengths and weaknesses, and the jets don't currently have enough weaknesses. Magic teleportation (kOTH) ,instant rearming and unlimited supply of jets/money - simply eliminate the natural weakness that jets have.

It's a simple fix for simple players. Some of us have put in time, I'm doubting you will understand.

[Misconduct 99]

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T124840

[pooroldspike 129]

Developer Oukej said on page 5 that it was jet pilots who wanted the new 1.70 view in the first place, and that their feedback indicates they like it!

So that places BI in a dilemma because a lot of chopper and Blackfish pilots don't like it!

It therefore seems the only way to keep both camps happy would be for BI to give us an in-game option to choose to play with either the old 1.68 static-horizon view or the new 1.70 hotfix fluid-horizon view, whichever they prefer..:)

How about it BI? Is that possible?

Here's what Oukej said on page 5-

"Valid complaints that 3rd person camera used to be "suboptimal" (and sim industry non-standard-ish) for aircraft control and flight vector awareness is what triggered the changes in the first place :)

One examplehttps://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/5h06zz/aircraft_3rd_person_camera_proof_of_concept/

So from airplane's perspective we've received positive feedback after the change."