[MP][CTI-COOP] Liberation (continued)

[sowens 71]

1 hour ago, jappie2 said:

Some more feedback on the new Exp version.

 

-The airdrop of the starting resources is indeed a bit wonky. Starting out with resources at Chimera base might actually be better.

-Slightly disappointed in the convoys, I was really rooting for somebody to actually give genuine trucks a go, real trucks with real AI in them that have to make it to the FOB/Base.

Yes, it would go wrong many times. (AI driving) But it has improved a lot over the years, and i feel if the roads are clear they would make it most of the time. Add to that that scripts could maybe be used (?) to check their progress, to see if they're stuck and if yes, they could be moved up or out of the way. 

 

The reason I want this is A: Immersion, an invisible convoy mechanic is basically nothing more than a hassle. You don't get to see your goodies move, you don't need to cover them, you don't need to clear the roads. 

Having real trucks means you'll have to put a lot more work in. There's a real chance supply lines get disrupted by just one enemy rifleman, or blockage on the road.

It would give us tons and tons of stuff to do.

Currently what it adds is pressing buttons and playing a new version of Euro truck simulator named Euro Huron simulator to get the factories build, after which you just have to keep pressing the same buttons to get your convoy in.

 

I understand it is a lot of work, but it would really make this mission something more than just capturing towns!

I believe this is the first iteration and it "might" come to real ai and trucks. Join the discord channel as sometimes there are questions asked for design choices. This exact one was discussed in length as were many others.

[Drewgamer 2]

2 hours ago, Wyqer said:

Yeah, I'm also not really satisfied with the airdrop of the starting resources.

In the first implementation there was also a truck being airdropped, but that is some kind of weird, to have a HEMTT airdropped.

Another idea was, to provide the starting resources once at the starting base (carrier or chimera), so that you can load it inside the huron at the start. But I don't know if it's really a good idea.

So, yeah.... I'm also still thinking about a better way.

How about make it so FOBs start with the resources automatically?

You can then adjust FOB build price to account for that. 

 

Another option is to increase the radius of the "store" option and allow them to be stored as long as they are in the build radius of the FOB. 

[Darkhound1 0]

ANyone know how I would go about having base chimera on the new carrier? The whole spawn at height alludes me. I know I could enable the lhd mod but wanted to use the new carrier in this mission

[sowens 71]

The new carrier is coming as soon as this weekend along with the release of 0.95. I know they are finishing up some additional touches like a new preset for 3cb BAF's familiy of addons and other great additions like adding logistics and map changes.

[Wyqer 305]

@jappie2

thanks for the huge feedback and I think about it the same, in general.

But @sowens is right. We had some days ago a longer discussion in the discord about the "how" and especialy about the "AI driving skills".

In the end we came to the conclusion:

The Logistics System is aimed to be used by smaller groups, who don't have the manpower or the time to carry the resources by hand from A to B (which would be the intended gameplay). With this as basic idea for the logistics we thought, that babysitting driving AI trucks would be like carry the resources by yourself from the time factor you would need. So it would be more a logistic and "f***ing AI driving" game. With that in mind (it should only help smaller groups to stay focused on the "liberation") it was the conclusion, that a "virtual" system would be the best. And believe me, it made it not really easier to concept and code the functionality behind it. But as I personal would like to have real trucks, I already made it that way, that it would be possible without real problems or too much work, to set the "real driving" above the current system. As everything could be the same, there are only some additions needed like spawning, waypoints, etc. which needs to be added to the current code. That's concerning the "first iteration" sowens mentioned.

And yeah, it's one of the new features in 0.95, but it is not the "new gameplay focus", if you know what I want to say. It's like the new BI Carrier (which will be in 0.95 @chrisahlborn@insight.rr.com).... a kind of "there is something new, it's interesting and focus me as a player in this moment", what's totally normal. The basic real big new feature and gameplay changing addition is the resource system with locality etc. and the logistic and even the production are "only" needed tools to use this feature in a suitable way, not meant to be a new "basic gameplay focus".

After 0.95 there will be also addition like ambushes on the convoys (which will generate new direct and dynamic gameplay) for example.

With 0.95 I don't reach the end of development :)

And I would be really glad, if you maybe concider to join the discord, too. As it seems that you're a person who giving good and reasonable feedback, I would like to hear it on the "pre implementation" discussions there. :)

 

@Drewgamer

Directly adding the resources would be some kind of weird (I've already thought about it before).

If it places a storage and store the crates directly inside -> The player can't decide where he wants to have his first storage.

If they just pop up after the first storage is build -> not very immersive "magic" stuff and I bet some players would build a FOB and not a storage (and don't read the tutorial) and then quit the game to complain about "I can't build anything at the start because I've no resources". ^^

 

About increasing the storage range -> If you've more then one storage area you should be still able to "sort" it for your likings and it shouldn't be kind of random where the crate get stored. I raise the range a little bit, but not like "whole FOB at once".

 

But well, many many thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it. Time to pick up the today liberation work ^^

 

[Drewgamer 2]

22 minutes ago, Wyqer said:

 

@Drewgamer

Directly adding the resources would be some kind of weird (I've already thought about it before).

If it places a storage and store the crates directly inside -> The player can't decide where he wants to have his first storage.

If they just pop up after the first storage is build -> not very immersive "magic" stuff and I bet some players would build a FOB and not a storage (and don't read the tutorial) and then quit the game to complain about "I can't build anything at the start because I've no resources". ^^

 

About increasing the storage range -> If you've more then one storage area you should be still able to "sort" it for your likings and it shouldn't be kind of random where the crate get stored. I raise the range a little bit, but not like "whole FOB at once".

 

But well, many many thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it. Time to pick up the today liberation work ^^

 

Ah yes, I see where the issues would crop up.  I'm sure there is a more elegant solution out there, but I'll keep messing around with the current iteration for now.

 

Also, I've been having some issues with resetting the mission progress (game hangs on mission load).  Is there any way other than the mission parameters to do this? This is using a dedicated server (from another machine in my room).

And would this count as an issue worth posting to the github?

 

Thanks again for all your hard work!

[Wyqer 305]

If you want to "hard" delete the savegame you have to delete the following file.

In this example your server profile name is "server" (-profiles=server)

[arma server root with server.exe]\server\Users\server\server.vars.Arma3Profile

In this file the savegame gets stored.

But I've never experienced any issues with the two needed wipe params concerning wipe the savegame.

Can you provide any steps to reproduce maybe?

[jappie2 13]

I see, that does make sense. You can't of course tailor to all the specific needs of all types of player so I fully understand where you're coming from!

With that in mind, the virtual convoy system works great. I've had no glitches with it the time i played, so it seems to function really well.

Missions like ambushes on the convoys sound great, looking forward to it all!

[Martinj77 2]

Hey some feedback from myself and a few friends who have been playing most of the week. 

 

    - The resource system is a nice new addition. It bring's alot of new game play aspects but it started to get really tedious to use after a few play sessions.

    - We could do with some markers for towns. we keep having to mark the towns to remember what the are producing and when the server gets reset its back to square one.

    - Setting up a town to produce stuff is also a headache if the right amounts dont spawn there ( maybe 200 of each guaranteed spawn so you can set up after capture and move on without having to haul 1 crate 2km)

    - The logistics system works well. If it could display what resources are in a location when you have selected it that would make it 100% easier to use.

    - As stated above the start is a little wonky and getting established can be a pain. airdropping a truck would be nice.

    - Over all good system but the option to set up some sort of passive income would be nice, after a few sessions people just didn't want to haul stuff anymore. Even a parameter to set the time it takes captured areas to produce

      crates or what a crate is worth might help. 

    - The salvage building seems to despawn on server restart for some reason. 

    - Overall there just seems to be a little bit too much work for a small group to do and its work that doesn't add any sort of gameplay enjoyment. i get that you guys are play in a milsim environment and like stuff to be as real as         possible but i never felt  this mission was originally designed to be that. you could make it more casual or more realistic.

    - Im very happy that you have taken over the mission as i fell like its one of the best pve missions added to date and i feel it has a lot more to offer so keep up the good work. 

 

[sowens 71]

17 minutes ago, Martinj77 said:

Hey some feedback from myself and a few friends who have been playing most of the week. 

 

    - The resource system is a nice new addition. It bring's alot of new game play aspects but it started to get really tedious to use after a few play sessions.

    - We could do with some markers for towns. we keep having to mark the towns to remember what the are producing and when the server gets reset its back to square one.

    - Setting up a town to produce stuff is also a headache if the right amounts dont spawn there ( maybe 200 of each guaranteed spawn so you can set up after capture and move on without having to haul 1 crate 2km)

    - The logistics system works well. If it could display what resources are in a location when you have selected it that would make it 100% easier to use.

    - As stated above the start is a little wonky and getting established can be a pain. airdropping a truck would be nice.

    - Over all good system but the option to set up some sort of passive income would be nice, after a few sessions people just didn't want to haul stuff anymore. Even a parameter to set the time it takes captured areas to produce

      crates or what a crate is worth might help. 

    - The salvage building seems to despawn on server restart for some reason. 

    - Overall there just seems to be a little bit too much work for a small group to do and its work that doesn't add any sort of gameplay enjoyment. i get that you guys are play in a milsim environment and like stuff to be as real as         possible but i never felt  this mission was originally designed to be that. you could make it more casual or more realistic.

    - Im very happy that you have taken over the mission as i fell like its one of the best pve missions added to date and i feel it has a lot more to offer so keep up the good work. 

 

You can see what a town is producing through the production scroll menu. Click on the town's name and it will show you what is there, crate wise, and what it is producing at that moment.

[Martinj77 2]

36 minutes ago, sowens said:

You can see what a town is producing through the production scroll menu. Click on the town's name and it will show you what is there, crate wise, and what it is producing at that moment.

 

First off you can only use the production menu at the fob and you can only use that menu if your the commander or you have the right permissions.  Secondly you have to keep constantly switching between it and the logistics menu trying to remember what is producing what. so if someone joins thats not the commander how are they going to know whats producing what without driving all over the map. any marks you write on the map get wiped with a server restart so its kinda impossible to keep track of everything and whats doing what. especially once you start to take a lot of towns. 

 

[Wyqer 305]

@Martinj77

Hey, many thanks for the huge feedback. Really appreciate it.

 

Let's get into the crtitical parts, shall we? :)

44 minutes ago, Martinj77 said:

- We could do with some markers for towns. we keep having to mark the towns to remember what the are producing and when the server gets reset its back to square one.

Yeah, I already thought about some kind of small indication at the edge of producing sectors. Also @Applejakerie suggested it. Think it would be a gread addition and I'll clearly try to implement it in the future (maybe 0.96 then).

 

53 minutes ago, Martinj77 said:

  - Setting up a town to produce stuff is also a headache if the right amounts dont spawn there ( maybe 200 of each guaranteed spawn so you can set up after capture and move on without having to haul 1 crate 2km)

At the moment it's random 1 - 3 crates with each random resource in it. It is by the way affected by the resource multiplier parameter how many crates can spawn. But yeah, maybe I could just basicly raise it to 2 - 4.

 

54 minutes ago, Martinj77 said:

- The logistics system works well. If it could display what resources are in a location when you have selected it that would make it 100% easier to use.

- Over all good system but the option to set up some sort of passive income would be nice, after a few sessions people just didn't want to haul stuff anymore. Even a parameter to set the time it takes captured areas to produce

      crates or what a crate is worth might help.

The Logistic System is meant to be a "more immersive" way to have a kind of passive income. Maybe you don't know (as I've intentionally didn't said anything about the details): You can set for example one sector to produce supplies, buy a truck for a logistic group and say him "get me 100,000 Supplies from Sector A and bring it to the FOB". The truck will drive to A, wait until the truck loaded 3 crates and then drive back to the FOB (maybe wait there again if no free space is available). And he will do this until he carried the 100,000 supplies to the FOB. You set up the mission once and the system will do the rest. That's why it's also optional and meant to be a replacement for the passive income (if you set it up like in the example it's very similar to the passive income).

 

58 minutes ago, Martinj77 said:

- As stated above the start is a little wonky and getting established can be a pain. airdropping a truck would be nice.

I'm still not very happy with the thought of a HEMTT falling from the air..... sure it's from only "gameplay" aspects the best and easiest thing. I'll continue thinking about any solution for this, as said before. As I'm also not really happy with the current state. It's working and ok, but it shouldn't be the end of this aspect.

 

1 hour ago, Martinj77 said:

- The salvage building seems to despawn on server restart for some reason. 

Yeah, the salvage building is sometimes very affected by the displacement after a game load. I've experienced also a 50m offset after loading. Maybe it moved out of the FOB Area and didn't get saved on your side then. I'm aware of it and still searching for a good solution for the whole misplacement issue. Maybe for general information: The misplacements happens from the loading to the save (save and load array are always identical). So it's something with the placement which is happening due to the load. Be sure, I'm on it (as it's annoying for myself, too, if your nice FOB move to each direction)

 

1 hour ago, Martinj77 said:

- Overall there just seems to be a little bit too much work for a small group to do and its work that doesn't add any sort of gameplay enjoyment. i get that you guys are play in a milsim environment and like stuff to be as real as         possible but i never felt  this mission was originally designed to be that. you could make it more casual or more realistic.

I know, it's some more work for smaller groups and I really aim to provide also a good experience to smaller groups. And I really want to keep a good balance between "casual" and "milsim" players with implement impacting features as optional things. But sure, as I come from a milsim community I may see some things not as hard as players who are really affected, because they have a smaller group and aren't used to any milsim "difficulty" etc. Which is just fine, don't get me wrong. What I wanted to say with that is, that I therefor really appreciate feedback from smaller groups of casual players, as they can provide real experiences in this case which I probably never thought of. I hope I'll be able to keep the balance during the future development, but I'm confidend, as they are many people who provide feedback and reports (much more that I've honestly ever expected).

 

50 minutes ago, sowens said:

- Im very happy that you have taken over the mission as i fell like its one of the best pve missions added to date and i feel it has a lot more to offer so keep up the good work.

Many thanks for that and I'm glad you like it. Basic thanks please to zbug and GREUH, as I've only pick up the work and made some additions for now :)

[Martinj77 2]

13 minutes ago, Wyqer said:

The Logistic System is meant to be a "more immersive" way to have a kind of passive income. Maybe you don't know (as I've intentionally didn't said anything about the details): You can set for example one sector to produce supplies, buy a truck for a logistic group and say him "get me 100,000 Supplies from Sector A and bring it to the FOB". The truck will drive to A, wait until the truck loaded 3 crates and then drive back to the FOB (maybe wait there again if no free space is available). And he will do this until he carried the 100,000 supplies to the FOB. You set up the mission once and the system will do the rest. That's why it's also optional and meant to be a replacement for the passive income (if you set it up like in the example it's very similar to the passive income).

 

*facepalm lol. that makes that a lot easier. it never crossed my mind to do that. one thing i just noticed in regard of the logistics. on server reset when we come back in some of the missions get hung up and freeze and when i hit abort it hangs saying aborting time 1 minute. I'll keep an eye on it and let you know if it happens us again. 

[Drewgamer 2]

14 hours ago, Wyqer said:

If you want to "hard" delete the savegame you have to delete the following file.

In this example your server profile name is "server" (-profiles=server)

[arma server root with server.exe]\server\Users\server\server.vars.Arma3Profile

In this file the savegame gets stored.

But I've never experienced any issues with the two needed wipe params concerning wipe the savegame.

Can you provide any steps to reproduce maybe?

Seems to just be an issue with my dedicated server (or dedicated servers in general?).

I went ahead and created an issue on the github so as not to clutter this thread too much.

 

On another note, I ran into another potential issue with the air-dropped starting resource crates.  If you place your FOB too close to a forest, the crates could drop into the trees.  This makes it extremely difficult (if not impossible) to retrieve them without a truck (and depending on the density of the trees, a truck may not even be able to reach them? I have not tried that though).

 

I had a very...interesting...time with my last playtest when 2 of the crates landed between a lot of trees xD

[Wyqer 305]

Yeah, that's also a thing with the airdrop start resources... forests, hills, water, etc.

It won't be the "finished" way.... maybe really provide them at the start. (dropping a truck won't fix the things in general)

Or a "when first storage area build then cast six crates from nowhere". Would be the easiest solution, but nothing what we should consider as "the solution".

[porast 2]

Like it to play with the resource system most times. But sometimes we want to have the "full power" of army to fight. It is going to be possible to disable the necessity having enough from anything?

Or as an alternative way: how is it possible to cheat more resources? I guess it is possible to get more with a server command/execution?

[twakkie 57]

18 hours ago, Wyqer said:

Yeah, that's also a thing with the airdrop start resources... forests, hills, water, etc.

It won't be the "finished" way.... maybe really provide them at the start. (dropping a truck won't fix the things in general)

Or a "when first storage area build then cast six crates from nowhere". Would be the easiest solution, but nothing what we should consider as "the solution".

 

Hi Wyqer.

 

Just a random thought. Why not allow the user to specify where to drop the resources within a certain radius of the FOB. For example, you place the FOB, get a new add action which pulls up a map. On the map you can then click where to drop the resources. Would solve alot of headache for you to script something that picks up the vest location to drop it.

[Wyqer 305]

Sure, selecting where you really want the drop would be a good point and prevent from "landing in water an deep forests".

That's something I should really implement, if we stick to the airdrop procedure for the starting resources.

As there is still the question how to let players "easily" get the resources to their first storage without really have something aside the huron.

[Mishkar 3]

How about air droping an offroader? Doesnt look as stupid as the big truck coming from the sky. Or place an offroader next to the FOB box in the operations base so it can be air lifted like the box. Could even give it a crude retexture or use the FIA vehicle so it's not the civilian one.

[Wyqer 305]

Providing maybe a "smaller" vehicle, which is still capable of carry boxes, at the operation base could be a good compromise, yeah.

Think that'll be something I could add before releasing today.

[Darkhound7 33]

I'm trying to enable the revive option in the mission using the mission params.

 class ReviveOptions{
  title = $STR_PARAMS_REVIVEOPTIONS;
  values[] = { "" };
   texts[] = { "" };
   default = "";

 

I have changed the other options concerning revive but no joy. Im not using ace at the moment. Do I need to change it in another location other than in mission params?

[sowens 71]

Set 

    class ReviveMode
    {
        title = $STR_A3_ReviveMode;
        isGlobal = 0;
        values[] = {-100,0,1};
        texts[] = {$STR_A3_MissionDefault, $STR_A3_Disabled, $STR_A3_EnabledForAllPlayers};
        default = 1;
        function = "bis_fnc_paramReviveMode";

 

to 1 if it already isn't and try. I had problems with it as well and replaced it with something else. If that doesn't work I have no idea.

[Darkhound7 33]

On 5/18/2017 at 7:10 PM, chrisahlborn@insight.rr.com said:

ANyone know how I would go about having base chimera on the new carrier? The whole spawn at height alludes me. I know I could enable the lhd mod but wanted to use the new carrier in this mission

IMO at this time running the mission with the lhd mod is a better option/ You can move the lhd location buy dragging it wherever just be careful not to rotate it as it rearranges the placement of your choppers, huron container etc.

 

[Darkhound7 33]

3 minutes ago, sowens said:

Set 

    class ReviveMode
    {
        title = $STR_A3_ReviveMode;
        isGlobal = 0;
        values[] = {-100,0,1};
        texts[] = {$STR_A3_MissionDefault, $STR_A3_Disabled, $STR_A3_EnabledForAllPlayers};
        default = 1;
        function = "bis_fnc_paramReviveMode";

 

to 1 if it already isn't and try. I had problems with it as well and replaced it with something else. If that doesn't work I have no idea.

Thank you Sowens

[sowens 71]

The carrier the way it is setup in 0.95 isn't as nice as the LHD. The carrier has a building placed on it and its just not the same to me. If they added functionality to buy the planes on the carrier then it would have been worth it. I'll be re adding the LHD myself and adding functionality to buy the planes on the carrier.