Working on an 'open world' insurgent mission

[owmyeye 14]

I'm working on making a mission for Stratis which is very un-structured and open, so you can actually go your own direction and adapt to the situation. I guess I was a bit inspired after playing a little bit of the Ravage zombie mod (if you can make sense of that).

I thought about how it would be good to plan ambushes and raids on a superior force to do damage, collect equipment, etc. The idea would not be to 'win', as in wipe out the enemy or take over, but to stay alive and to keep the small rebel unit supplied. 

It will be set on the entire of Stratis (instead of Altis or Tanoa, due to system load). I have already started to beef up towns though with more buildings in the editor.

Thing is, I'm not a programmer and am only a basic to moderate level mission editor. However to help me along, I will be using the MCC Sandbox mod to create the dynamic enemy AI behaviour, so they will patrol and also react to my attacks (so send reinforcements to the scene) and so on.

I'm thinking about making a bunch of small 'missions' to keep it all going too. As in, I will make some supply depot bases, which can be then raided for supplies. It won't say "you win, yay", but instead a 'win' will be loading up a truck and making off with guns and ammo before the superior enemy reinforcements arrive. I will then stash that in my hidden base to use from then on. See the alternative would be actually running out of ammo. That would be called 'losing'.
Another mission idea is to clear small towns of local police to win extra squad members in return. This would be recreating if a rebel force impressed the locals and also met them face to face to say 'come with me to the woods to fight'. Again this would be 'winning' because I will be losing men slowly, so none left would be considered 'losing'. 

The way I will do the squad member thing is to set triggers which then enable a radio trigger. The radio trigger will tell men (who are either made and tucked away in the editor, or are spawned in) to join my squad.

I'm considering also making triggers which restock the enemy a bit so I don't ever fully wipe them out. Like If I kill all the police patrolling a town, maybe I will have a trigger to spawn a replacement squad (some distance away) with a waypoint to go to the town and guard. I probably should also do the same for army outposts that will have defenders. 

Anyone want to comment or give suggestions for how I can add function to this scenario? Any other mods which are 'plug and play' to add useful features?

 

One script or mod I would be interested in is something that would help make AI on the same side as the player join on some kind of command.

 

[serena 151]

When you look inside Ravage or any other true dynamic scenario, you find mission file absolutely empty -  only player unit and  number of markers / modules. Using mission editor waypoints and triggers you can create simple scenarios. To create a dynamic sandbox scenarios, there is only one way: scripting, scripting, scripting...

[owmyeye 14]

13 minutes ago, serena said:

When you look inside Ravage or any other true dynamic scenario, you find mission file absolutely empty -  only player unit and  number of markers / modules. Using mission editor waypoints and triggers you can create simple scenarios. To create a dynamic dynamic sandbox scenarios, there is only one way: scripting, scripting, scripting...

Well I'm not looking for anything amazing. The skeleton I have already built has AI patrols over all of Stratis, bases being patrolled and fortified, towns with police walking the streets.

 

As I mentioned, an easy way to get reinforcements would be to make a simple trigger (activated by no enemy AI in a marked location or a sabotage target being destroyed, etc) that spawns a named group, then have an already existing radio trigger that makes that group (or individual named units) join the player group.

 

But that's why I'm asking for ideas, scripts to copy, mods to use (like how MCC Sandbox is making dynamic AI behavior). 

[owmyeye 14]

Oh yeah and I've been busy manually building bases and stocking them up with supplies. Some of the vehicles and crates I've set a 'probability of presence' so I won't know for sure what is there until I get inside. It now occurs to be that I don't know how to restock any supplies pillaged, but that's not so bad as I don't want to play just hitting the same base over and over. 

[RoryRothon 8]

A few links maybe worth a look :)

 

UPSMON

eos

Loot System

Side Mission Scripts

 

There are a lot of ready made scripts out there to use, and UPSMON is certainly one of my favorites :)

[Nicholas.Bell 11]

10 hours ago, owmyeye said:

As I mentioned, an easy way to get reinforcements would be to make a simple trigger (activated by no enemy AI in a marked location or a sabotage target being destroyed, etc) that spawns a named group, then have an already existing radio trigger that makes that group (or individual named units) join the player group.

 

But that's why I'm asking for ideas, scripts to copy, mods to use (like how MCC Sandbox is making dynamic AI behavior). 

 

Check out Jebus - Just Editor Based Unit Spawning: https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/174661-jebus-just-editor-based-unit-spawning/#comment-2733332

 

I've found it extremely useful to de-PBO good missions/mission generators and learn from the pro's how to script what I want in a mission.  I couldn't script from scratch to save my life, but I've learned enough to be able to modify and use others' work for my own (unpublished) missions.

 

[Yuval 29]

Well if you're planning something simple you sure can just use the editor. But it limits the dynamic aspect of your mission by a whole lot.

 

I too work on what I guess you can call "open world" missions. Infact I have one in the works right now. I can tell you as much as you wanna either drop the idea or learn how to script. I am an old time programmer but I tell you, the only reason I come back to arma every other project is purely for the scripting. It's a whole other fun.

 

While you sure can use MCC and a whole bunch of other modules, it happens quite often you'd want to tinker script behaviour. I highly urge you to consider learning SQF. It is also super useful combined with the usage of the 3d editor.

[owmyeye 14]

4 hours ago, yuval said:

Well if you're planning something simple you sure can just use the editor. But it limits the dynamic aspect of your mission by a whole lot.

 

I too work on what I guess you can call "open world" missions. Infact I have one in the works right now. I can tell you as much as you wanna either drop the idea or learn how to script. I am an old time programmer but I tell you, the only reason I come back to arma every other project is purely for the scripting. It's a whole other fun.

 

While you sure can use MCC and a whole bunch of other modules, it happens quite often you'd want to tinker script behaviour. I highly urge you to consider learning SQF. It is also super useful combined with the usage of the 3d editor.

I'm pretty busy running a business, looking after kids, and hoping to do things to relax in between. In your opinion, what kind of commitment would be needed to learn SQF to a sufficient level? I'm pretty good at learning things when I commit to it, but I'm not even going to begin if it's going to take 20 hours per week hard study for the next year or etc. 

[Sil Carmikas 45]

It all depends on how much you are willing to commit honestly.

 

For me personally, I've been learning in short spurts here and there, and when I feel like I'm hitting a wall or am confused about something that should be relatively simple and find myself getting frustrated, I just put it down and come back later on or the next day, and usually the solution will present itself to me in a quick fashion. 

 

My best advice would be now that you have a project you'd like to go into, what script would you like to work on first?

 

Maybe a player spawn script? Maybe you want to put in your own custom sounds like military radio transmissions to play on a radio or something? Maybe you'd like an enemy squad to appear when you or a player are within 500 meters of a marker or waypoint?

 

Once you figure out what you'd like to do first in that aspect, commit to learning how to do that one thing, and then the next, and so on and so forth and before you know it, you have a complete project!

 

Welcome to the field by the way. I've been learning scripting myself and just worked out a very simple random weather script for people to use in their missions if they would like.

 

 

[owmyeye 14]

8 hours ago, Nicholas.Bell said:

 

Check out Jebus - Just Editor Based Unit Spawning: https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/174661-jebus-just-editor-based-unit-spawning/#comment-2733332

 

I've found it extremely useful to de-PBO good missions/mission generators and learn from the pro's how to script what I want in a mission.  I couldn't script from scratch to save my life, but I've learned enough to be able to modify and use others' work for my own (unpublished) missions.

 

Oh ma gawd, that's perfect. It even has GAIA integration. Exactly what I need.

 

This is why I figured it'd be good to ask and see what people could suggest :)

[Yuval 29]

8 hours ago, owmyeye said:

I'm pretty busy running a business, looking after kids, and hoping to do things to relax in between. In your opinion, what kind of commitment would be needed to learn SQF to a sufficient level? I'm pretty good at learning things when I commit to it, but I'm not even going to begin if it's going to take 20 hours per week hard study for the next year or etc. 

SQF is supposed to be easy to learn. If you practice things, you can learn how to use it quick. Start by making simple init scripts in the editor and then maybe some code in init.sqf and from there you can do whatever! There are a few short guides on how to start on the wiki and also on the internet. The first time I learned programming was by simply taking a code and changing it.. making small changes until I was confident enough to do bigger adjustments. At a certain point the code was all different.

 

Even today when I write some scripts, they go through alot of iterations. That's really the best practice of scripting.. writing and rewriting code haha!

[owmyeye 14]

Well I've hit a brick wall. 

 

It wasn't about scripting or setting up the mission to have tasks and rewards or anything like that.... it's that the AI sucks balls and is completely incompatible with my mission. I keep turning around to find my entire squad is wiped out.They seem incapable of staying in cover and taking careful shots. They seem to only know how to fight in the open and take high casualties, so not at all suitable to working in a small unit fighting a superior force.

 

This sucks. I spent so many hours setting it all up.

[zagor64bz 1225]

3 hours ago, owmyeye said:

Well I've hit a brick wall. 

 

It wasn't about scripting or setting up the mission to have tasks and rewards or anything like that.... it's that the AI sucks balls and is completely incompatible with my mission. I keep turning around to find my entire squad is wiped out.They seem incapable of staying in cover and taking careful shots. They seem to only know how to fight in the open and take high casualties, so not at all suitable to working in a small unit fighting a superior force.

 

This sucks. I spent so many hours setting it all up.

Managing, or better micro-managing,  AI teammates is frustrating... at least when you aspect them to perform like a well trained SF team. However, there's a lot that can be improved with some of the many AI behavior enhancement scripts out there.

Look into:

-bcombat

-vcomai

-ASR AI3

- AISS

-Drongo's Command Enhancement

-SAMO Squad Action Menu Orders

 

 

[EO 11277]

4 hours ago, owmyeye said:

I keep turning around to find my entire squad is wiped out.

 

Have you tried lowering the skill and precision settings of AI....

 

[owmyeye 14]

19 minutes ago, zagor64bz said:

Managing, or better micro-managing,  AI teammates is frustrating... at least when you aspect them to perform like a well trained SF team. However, there's a lot that can be improved with some of the many AI behavior enhancement scripts out there.

Look into:

-bcombat

-vcomai

-ASR AI3

- AISS

-Drongo's Command Enhancement

-SAMO Squad Action Menu Orders

 

 

I use Bcombat, but I'm aware it hasn't been updated in yonks. I actually see it throw error messages too (while I'm in dev it pops up) so don't know if that means it's not always working properly.

 

I should take the time to check out the other ones on your list. 

[owmyeye 14]

15 minutes ago, Evil Organ said:

 

Have you tried lowering the skill and precision settings of AI....

 

Yeah totally. I mean the game is practically unplayable unless I set the Skill slider for each unit to the lowest.

That's in combination with playing with the game difficulty setting on hardest (I'm not sure how the two overlap).

I've found if I don't set the Skill slider right down, I'll get aim bot shot in the head from 600m away while prone...

 

As a random fact for this point, I started using the Jebus script and noticed I was getting aim botted. That made me almost certain that the script was canning the Skill setting. I asked the maker and sure enough, it was. At that point I just stopped trying to play/test the mission I made until the Jebus dev updated to keep skill. 

 

The problem with the difficulty setting though and also the mods to an extent, is that it's a two way street. My squad will be less likely to be aimbot sniped out by a riflemen...but that also means they won't snipe out the enemy too. And bcombat will make my squad take cover more than vanilla, but it will also mean that the enemy AI will use grenades, flanking, and aggressive pursuit more too. 

[owmyeye 14]

Maybe I should have another go with my squad on 'silent' mode, so they will stay lower and move slower maybe. 

[zagor64bz 1225]

On 12/3/2017 at 10:33 AM, owmyeye said:

Maybe I should have another go with my squad on 'silent' mode, so they will stay lower and move slower maybe. 

I take for granted that you did already, but I'm gonna ask you anyway..just in case:

 

YOU DID READ/WATCH VIDEO ON FORMATION USE, BOUNDING MOVEMENTS, OVERWATCH AND SMALL SQUAD REAL LIFE TACTICS IN GENERAL, RIGHT? 

For example, this is a compilation of  fireteam basic maneuvers explained in simple enough language.

BASIC FIRETEAM MANEUVERS

Dslyecxi Tactical guide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-fZJm7mhfk&t=117s

http://bro.ma/infantry-tactics-guide/ 

Most, if not all, of those things can and will help you develop more efficient ways to move your team on the battlefield. 

If you already know those things..well,SORRY!

ps: perhaps somebody else will find those tips useful .

[joostsidy 685]

Some pointers:

 

- Like zagor is saying: you cannot just let your squad follow you around and expect them to fight effectively. In reality, a single small team engaging a fortified position, while being outnumbered has a very small chance of succeeding. In real life, this is an impossible mission, even for SF. Arma 3 is quite realistic in this sense. You can't RAMBO, even with a small team. In realistic missions, either you have overwhelming forces, or you have total intel (drone, satellite), or you have a limited objective (shoot one person from a distance) etc.

 

- Of course we want to do the small team strikes, because it's fun :-)

 

- In my missions I don't use AI mods. I lower the skills of the enemy somewhat (they are grunts) and make the skills of my own team (they are elite) much higher. I just set the skill to 1 for my own team. They'll shoot very well, and that compensates a bit for stupid AI mistakes elsewhere

 

- For scripting, a nice practice would be to add an action to recruitable soldiers. So you approach a soldier, and the text 'join me' pops up. I use this, it's fun and functional and not hard to script. You can even add some narrative texts to it: 'I want them to pay, I'll join you!'. addAction is the basic command to start with this. I can give you script examples if you want.

[owmyeye 14]

Ok, so I've been doing some silly mistakes then. I thought silent was just for moving and not fighting. I also for some reason set the friendly skill level right down just like the enemy. Especially for this mission I should bump them up a bit to be more 'elite' and to compensate for flaws. 

 

Thanks for tips @joostsidy and @zagor64bz

 

I'll do some tweaking and give the guides a read/watch. 

 

As far as recruiting goes, I've just been cheating to make units reactivate from simulation/hidden and join my squad based on triggered events. However anyone can feel free to post info or links to other scripts if you want :)  I could probably use a 'join me' script to make certain civilians recruitable, but that would be better if it had certain requirements that need to be met, like an accrued point system or something for killing enemy or completing tasks, in order to recreate needing to impress the civs before they want to join.

[Halford.T 0]

Hey Ownmyeye, have you had a look at ALiVE mod? 

 

Its very good for creating dynamic and immersive environments, handles a lot of AI caching through its own systems for you?

 

http://alivemod.com/

[owmyeye 14]

13 hours ago, LT.Halford.T said:

Hey Ownmyeye, have you had a look at ALiVE mod? 

 

Its very good for creating dynamic and immersive environments, handles a lot of AI caching through its own systems for you?

 

http://alivemod.com/

I did a while ago. I found it a bit confusing and then poor performance on what I made. I then found MCC Sandbox and was really happy with it. 

 

However I think it is time I go back and have another look at it. 

[Chuc 83]

I use ASR AI3 for smarter AI.

 

Do you have ACE mod? I found with ACE all you have to do with soldier on your side is to use the interaction menu and go to team and then join group. That will make said soldier join your squad. Ace also lets you pick up certain boxes placed in the editor. So you put down a medic supplies box (example), pick it up with ACE interactive menu and put it down next to a car. Then you use ACE interactive menu to load the box (cargo) into your car to take back to base. You use this method aswell to repair broken wheels or steel wheels off other cars to place in your cars cargo for when needed.

 

Also if you haven't already get the Eden Enhanced mod for further tweaking of AI skills and extra stuff.

 

Since you mentioned it before I use parts of the ravage mod in my missions. Mainly the ambient AI and Vehicle modules. The vehicle module comes in handy with what I wrote about ACE at start. Also the loot system is good as well. Turn off all loot spawns and turn the Static object spawns on and instead of getting random bags with loot everywhere you will be able to loot cabinets, lockers, trash piles, ect.

 

 

I'm making a sort of similar mission as you are.