[ALiVE, SP/COOP 1-20] Battle of Sangin [Insurgency]

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

Due to a recent issue I've been having with micro stutter on some CUP reliant maps, for the hell of it I decided to replace RHS Marines with 3CB British Royal Marines and to my surprise it fixed the problem. 

 

Updated.

 

Note for anyone curious about this micro-stutter issue:

 

I do believe there is some kind of issue effecting a small group of users, where every 2-3 seconds the game stutters on certain maps - and I'm sure that it also has nothing to do with ALiVE specifically (I'm having the same problem playing the Chernarus version of Pilgrimage, for example, and have seen reports of this for the Chernarus version of DayZero).

 

What's odd is, most maps work fine for me. Pilgrimage on Altis is running flawlessly. Even making some test missions, I can put it on one map and everything is great. Then copy and paste it to one of the "trouble" maps, and the issue will be be there. It's strange.

Troubleshooting this, I went through over 1 year's worth of CBA releases, thinking this had to be the logical reason for the problem. But for me, on Chernarus, Diyala, and Sahrani the stutter is still there, even off map, regardless of the CBA version. 

Hopefully someone smarter than me can find the culprit, and determine what function is causing it. But at least in this case, for Battle of Sangin (on my PC), making this faction change addressed the problem in this mission, though if any of you are seeing something similar in your own editor made or downloaded missions, I do not believe RHS is specifically to blame. I have a feeling it's related to spawning assets based on building references, but honestly that's just a guess, and I have no clue why removing the RHS Marines fixed my problem in this case. I use them in other missions just fine.

 

 

Anyway, updated. Micro-stutter be gone! :)

[drdetroit 77]

Really a fantastic campaign, love it.  However, I noticed when I do an Alive save at a base camp other than the large main base, my AI squad spawn back at the main base,as well as the red boxes on the map I've secured as green are red again once mission save is started.  

 

Is this an issue with Alive persistent save issue you had mentioned in the Battle of Lythium thread, whereby the next Alive update will fix these issue or is this a possible conflict with other mods I have installed?

 

Thanks in advance and really awesome work on these mission!  

DrDetroit

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

13 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Really a fantastic campaign, love it.  However, I noticed when I do an Alive save at a base camp other than the large main base, my AI squad spawn back at the main base,as well as the red boxes on the map I've secured as green are red again once mission save is started.  

 

Is this an issue with Alive persistent save issue you had mentioned in the Battle of Lythium thread, whereby the next Alive update will fix these issue or is this a possible conflict with other mods I have installed?

 

Thanks in advance and really awesome work on these mission!  

DrDetroit

Hey thanks for playing. Sangin map is one of the best in the game, so much so I love just walking around on it, whether I shoot anything or not. :)

 

Unfortunately, the green/red squares are not persistent. I have a feature request open for it, and the ALiVE team is aware of my desire to have it added, but it's just a matter of a dev finding the time to make them persist. So as of now, no, don't expect this feature in the next ALiVE update.

 

What I do I manually add ALiVE markers myself, so I know what areas I've cleared, where Installations are, etc. You add them by opening the m key map and clicking left ctrl + alt + left click. These will save when you server save and exit. To delete the markers, press left ctrl + alt + right click.

 

Grouped AI positions are also not designed to have their locations persist. And there is no current plans for the ALiVE team to change this. Only actual player position is stored on save. This is why I usually return back to base before saving for the night.

 

That said, there is a script Spyderblack723 wrote that will teleport grouped AI to your position on mission start. Let me see if I can dig it up. If so I'll link it back here. 

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

Found it. Haven't used it in forever so let me know if you add it and it doesn't work. Unpack the mission using your favorite PBO tool. I like PBO Manager which is on Armaholic.

 

Open the file called init.sqf. At the bottom, paste this:

 

waituntil {(player getvariable ["alive_sys_player_playerloaded",false])};sleep 2;{	if !(isPlayer _x) then {		if !(_x getVariable ["Persistent_Teleport", false]) then {			_x setPos (getPos player);			_x setVariable ["Persistent_Teleport", true, true];			sleep .5;		};	};} forEach units group player;

Then in the description.ext, change the line disabledAI = 1; to:

 

disabledAI = 0;

 

This will make AI start in your group automatically on mission start without having to recruit any. I believe I grouped 7 AI to player 1. Keep in mind, if these guys die, and you recruit some, this code won't make their positions persist. With this code you will always have the 7 original AI teleport to you any time you start/load the mission. 

 

EDIT: Ah FFS BIS! Fix your site!

 

Well the code pasted like garbage. Here is the source, look for Dec 31 post from Spyderblack723 for it.

 

http://alivemod.com/forum/1613-ai-teammates-location-persistence-solved/p1#p7193

[GEORGE FLOROS GR 4206]

Nice mission ,  in a  great terrain !

Sangin Province Hellmand

just not another desert map,but unique !

 

[drdetroit 77]

Great!  Thanks for the detailed instructions.  

 

Great map, and fantastic campaigns you've put together HerosandvilliansOS, thanks so much for the great work and input!

[drdetroit 77]

Sorry, have another question; so I've noticed when I reload the campaign, after an Alive save, all the areas I've cleared previously (TRACE areas I believe they are called) don't seem to be persistent between saves.  After loading the campaign, the insurgents are back in place as if those areas were never cleared.  This goes for outposts, villages, ect...any areas I've previously cleared and marked on the map with the Alive markers, which the markers do persist between saves.

 

Is this due to the ALive persistence save issue you mentioned in the Lythium thread or something on my end?  

 

Thanks again! 

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

45 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Sorry, have another question; so I've noticed when I reload the campaign, after an Alive save, all the areas I've cleared previously (TRACE areas I believe they are called) don't seem to be persistent between saves.  After loading the campaign, the insurgents are back in place as if those areas were never cleared.  This goes for outposts, villages, ect...any areas I've previously cleared and marked on the map with the Alive markers, which the markers do persist between saves.

 

Is this due to the ALive persistence save issue you mentioned in the Lythium thread or something on my end?  

 

Thanks again! 

Hmm.

 

Well the TRACE squares that turn from red to green are not actually designed to persist (I have a feature request open), so I currently mark cleared areas with ALiVE markers, which it seems you are doing.

 

But profile positions should absolutely be persisting, even with the current bugs in the ALiVE mod.

 

When you save, how are you doing it? With "server save and exit?" That's how you're supposed to do it. Don't confuse it with "player exit" because that won't work.

 

If you do it right, a tablet will pop up on screen and you'll see a list of everything saving.

 

To load the mission, make sure the PBO name is the same and simply act as if you were starting the mission over.

 

I find it odd this wouldn't be working. The easiest way for me to see what's going on, would be if you could take a screenshot with groups shown on the map using the module settings option in the ALiVE menu and debugging virtual AI. Then saving. Then loading and debugging virtual AI again and taking another screenshot of the map after killing a few groups and then loading.

 

No worries if you don't care to do this. I can look later but if you have a sec, that would be useful. 

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

@drdetroit ^^^ Are you saving locally or have you edited the mission to save to the cloud using ALiVE War Room?

[drdetroit 77]

I'm just saving locally, in SP mode using the ALive save, no changes or edits to the mission.

[drdetroit 77]

I get the tablet popping up after the Alive save, but it only shows one or two lines...whereas I've seen it show dozens of lines previously in your other mission.  Maybe I'm not saving correctly...I'll check it out again.

[drdetroit 77]

BTW: the Alive save menu just has the option 'ALive Save (Single Player)'.  

 

I'll see if I can't do the screen shots per your instructions.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

@drdetroit

 

So you're actually playing in SP? Not a local host MP? Although I don't see any reason persistence wouldn't or shouldn't  work in SP, I specifically design these missions for a MP environment. Is that possible for you to try?

[drdetroit 77]

I had tried to host a local LAN for this mission however I don't get any AI squad.  I'm currently in SP, and pop over to MP and give it go right now.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

Also for ease of use, you may want to run that code in the first post in the debug console to start your progress over. Unless you want to change the mission.pbo name.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

@drdetroit That is correct. In MP you spawn in alone. This is why I place bunches of recruitment centers so you can recruit AI.

[drdetroit 77]

Ahhhh...ok cool!  Looks like user error as usual.  Thanks for your help Heros.  So much appreciated!

[drdetroit 77]

Playing on hosted LAN seems to have worked for saving state of insurgency, however, it does not save my AI at all.  Is that correct behavior of the 'server save and exit' function?

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

26 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Playing on hosted LAN seems to have worked for saving state of insurgency, however, it does not save my AI at all.  Is that correct behavior of the 'server save and exit' function?

If you don't mind, what was the user error for the save state?

 

Yeah this is correct. Grouped AI do not persist their locations. This is why I usually save at my bases so I can recruit more when I load. That, or I call in Logistics and have them send me a group to join me. 

 

There is a code I posted in one of my mission threads to make just the other day you can use, with full instructions for how to use it, but honestly I'd leave it as is and just either return to a base and save or save where you are and use Logistics, request a group "join player group," and wait for them to arrive to you.

 

The next ALiVE release will have full 3CB Logistics capability too. Right now, vanilla Ghost Hawks and trucks will deliver your supplies/teams, next release will have 3CB assets.

[lawndartleo 109]

Heroes,

 

I know you are no fan of vanilla so I wont bother for a clean mission version, but what I will do is ask... what is the best way to set up  an insurgency style mission?  is that Tanoa one you posted to me on the ALiVE forum a good template? Or would you have a better approach to offer up advice on?

[drdetroit 77]

The user error I was referring to is that I was playing in SP mode, which I suppose was causing the persistent save error referred to in my first post this morning.  

 

The Alive save seems to be fine in the MP game mode thus far...although I just had the error where AI seems to drop out of my squad, and when I ask them to rejoin formation, I hear instead 'rejoin group' - not 'rejoin formation'.  When I hear 'rejoin group' the AI will not follow in formation, instead I have to use the 'move there' command, or they just sit and don't follow my lead at all.  

 

 

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

27 minutes ago, lawndartleo said:

Heroes,

 

I know you are no fan of vanilla so I wont bother for a clean mission version, but what I will do is ask... what is the best way to set up  an insurgency style mission?  is that Tanoa one you posted to me on the ALiVE forum a good template? Or would you have a better approach to offer up advice on?

The Tanoa mission could certainly work as a template, though keep in mind it's a 3-way battle, with one insurgency and two conventional commanders.

 

Setting up a basic insurgency is pretty easy. I'd say open maybe this one or Inshallah in the editor and take a look at how I setup the modules and use that as a guide for your own. If you have any questions feel free to reach out.

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

38 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

The user error I was referring to is that I was playing in SP mode, which I suppose was causing the persistent save error referred to in my first post this morning.  

 

The Alive save seems to be fine in the MP game mode thus far...although I just had the error where AI seems to drop out of my squad, and when I ask them to rejoin formation, I hear instead 'rejoin group' - not 'rejoin formation'.  When I hear 'rejoin group' the AI will not follow in formation, instead I have to use the 'move there' command, or they just sit and don't follow my lead at all.  

 

 

Ok so you're recruiting AI. They are in your group, but won't follow orders other than move? If you hit ~, 1, 1 they won't follow you at all and just sit still?

 

I have seen this before. Are you using any AI mods or any mods not written on the first page? Are you using any Advanced mods by Duda? If so I'd like to know which ones.

 

When did this happen? Right away or did you do something and then it happened?

[drdetroit 77]

The AI issue just happened again, second time, after probably 45min or so (no AI team member deaths).  The first time, per my first post, happened about 15-20 minutes from mission start, right after a friendly troop transport ran over two of my guys.  This never happened in SP mode while playing this mission before, but I have experienced it a few times in other mission (DUWS_RHS for example - after AI team members were killed/wounded for the first time).

 

I am not using any other AI mods, and the mods I use not on your list are mostly sound mods - Dynasound 2, JSRS Soundmod, Enhanced Soundscape, and ambient birds for CUP terrains,  That's it.  I will remove those mods and see what happens.

 

When I press 1-1(or I think it's 1-2) and I hear "rejoin group" in stead of 'fall back' or 'rejoin formation', then I know the AI bugged out.  Nothing I do, for example 2-1 'rejoin formation', nor 1-2 'rejoin' helps.  The AI just stand there, unless I use the 'move' command, then they will move to the specific spot and wait for another 'move' command.

 

Strange, as this never happened after 4-5 hours or so in this mission while in SP mode.  Only just started happening in MP.

 

 

 

 

[HeroesandvillainsOS 1504]

@drdetroit Thanks for the detailed post. Yes this is exactly the same behavior I've seen, though I attributed it to possibly being caused by ASR AI (which I used to use. I don't anymore), or maybe one of Duda's Advanced mods. Though since removing ASR AI I haven't seen it again.

 

Regroup is Fkey or tilda, 1, 1 by the way but what you're describing is consistent with what I've seen.

 

I know it sucks, but when it used to happen to me, I'd remove the units from my group by opening the ALiVE menu, then Personnel, then selecting the units and dismissing them.

 

I'd recommend just for now, removing the additional mods and seeing if it stops. I'm poking the ALiVE devs on this by the way to see if they've seen it, but by the sounds of it, it might be an Arma 3 bug.

 

In my experience, this issue is super rare. And for me, it went away entirely after removing additional unnecessary mods. But without knowing the cause, it's impossible to say whether you'll see it again.

 

If you're interested, and bare in mind this is a test release which is sure to have bugs, you can try this test version of ALiVE which fixes a few persistence issues if you want to try starting your campaign:

 

https://github.com/ALiVEOS/ALiVE.OS/releases

 

I'll ask around on this grouped AI thing.