Raptors, Zombies and more!

[R0adki11 3949]

@ bad benson , again sorry you feel that I was pushy. It was not meant that way! I provided feedback and posted .rpt of errors. I feel my post was understanding of your situation and politely asked if it is something we can fix ourselves and make you aware of it if you were not! most mod makers prefer to see .rpt and discourage PM's so I think misunderstanding on both parts ! lets forget about it and move on, no hard feelings from me.

Your flame-baiting comments have been removed. Please respect the forum rules.

 

Regarding this mod, please understand that addon makers make content for free, and we do it because we enjoy doing. Its not a job for us, so we are quite entitled to do in our own time. If something isn't like how you want, or doesn't work how you want. Perhaps consider learning how to make it yourself ;)

[bad benson 1733]

@Aggro: all good. no worries.

 

there was no misunderstanding from my side anyways. as i have pointed out you literally asked me where to look which is the opposite of useful. if you have a fix then provide it (see one or more pages back to see how i deal with actual fixes), if not please don't waste time with asking questions that have obvious answers.

 

i really appreciate the enthusiam. i really do in all honesty. it's the only reason i post personal projects publically because releasing stuff is honestly a hassle.

 

when i say i prefer to do it myself then i mean don't fix stuff yourself and post a bunch of pbos here or ask for dedicated time for guidance to fix things yourself on your side. all of that will cause me extra work or hijack my project in a way that will cause confusion and effort to merge things. i'm not saying that is what you wanted to do, i'm just trying to make myself more clear since it didn't get through it seems.

 

i realise that nothing i make is perfect, and i don't care. i do this only for the challenge and to have fun. i know it's easy to back seat develope when you are focussing on single issues. but remember that i wrote the whole thing and that there is always something else to fix too.

 

keep up the reports. they really help. especially copy pastable like you did.

[Greatman 10]

@Aggro: all good. no worries.

 

there was no misunderstanding from my side anyways. as i have pointed out you literally asked me where to look which is the opposite of useful. if you have a fix then provide it (see one or more pages back to see how i deal with actual fixes), if not please don't waste time with asking questions that have obvious answers.

 

i really appreciate the enthusiam. i really do in all honesty. it's the only reason i post personal projects publically because releasing stuff is honestly a hassle.

 

when i say i prefer to do it myself then i mean don't fix stuff yourself and post a bunch of pbos here or ask for dedicated time for guidance to fix things yourself on your side. all of that will cause me extra work or hijack my project in a way that will cause confusion and effort to merge things. i'm not saying that is what you wanted to do, i'm just trying to make myself more clear since it didn't get through it seems.

 

i realise that nothing i make is perfect, and i don't care. i do this only for the challenge and to have fun. i know it's easy to back seat develope when you are focussing on single issues. but remember that i wrote the whole thing and that there is always something else to fix too.

 

keep up the reports. they really help. especially copy pastable like you did.

 

All I can say is I have been nothing but complimentary of your work. No hard feelings here either. I guess if It comes down to it I will try your mod in the future when its more complete ! keep up the good work I really like the Raptor version you have going .

Edited November 11, 2016 by R0adki11
editing post removed content which breaks forum rules.

[bad benson 1733]

found a nasty error in the target postion code (thx to Crazy Mike for testing). basically forgot to convert the predicted player vector to model space. i think this should fix them stopping in their tracks while hunting you once the system outputs an invalid position for them to go to using arma pathfinding.

 

i also moved a round some stuff to try to fix most of the reported script/rpt errors. gonna update later tonight focussing on the first mentioned issue so the other stuff might not be fully fixed. if that's the case i'll update shortly after before the wild dogs update.

 

so people who were able to reppro the issue please see if it's fixed once i updated.

 

 

EDIT: turns out it's not the prediction (eventhough that was busted). something more at engine level is happening. something about how AI is planning their path. i might've done one disableAI too many. will have to see.

 

so no update tonight. i think i will take the time thought o get the dogs into the next update too though. files are pretty big compared to EM for example so i wanna try to update less.

[bl2ck dog 80]

Awesome mod, thank you!

 

Few questions:

1) Is there a way to make "local spawn-mode" modules to spawn zombies only when players approach module by certain distance? By now zombies only cached when they moved away from the module itself (and not with player presence).That's significantly reducing server performance, since all of them  present on map all the time.

2) Is there a way to make safe zone, where raptors/zombies won't spawn (while still having ambient presence on the rest of the map)?

3) Is there a way to select particular classnames/factions for zombies? Seeing VR Entities on Chernarus is a bit weird )

[bad benson 1733]

Awesome mod, thank you!

 

Few questions:

1) Is there a way to make "local spawn-mode" modules to spawn zombies only when players approach module by certain distance? By now zombies only cached when they moved away from the module itself (and not with player presence) (NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN HERE AND HOW YOU COME TO THAT CONCLUSION).That's significantly reducing server performance, since all of them  present on map all the time.

2) Is there a way to make safe zone, where raptors/zombies won't spawn (while still having ambient presence on the rest of the map)?

3) Is there a way to select particular classnames/factions for zombies? Seeing VR Entities on Chernarus is a bit weird )

 

(1)

the agents themselves are not deleted and recreated indeed. however, nothing is calculated for them, if no player is near them (you can adjust that by changing the cache distance in the module...in ambient mode that will be ignored and cache distance will be equal to max spawn distance for obvious reasons). all that is by design.

 

sure on paper the common approach of deleting and recreating things constantly makes sense but in reality you get noticable stutters when things spawn even on the clients.

i realise that just entities with models that do literally nothing have some impact too but the goal is to have stable FPS instead bottlenecks when stuff is needed quickly.

 

i don't think a model that is not being rendered and has barely any simulation going on will have that much of an impact though. loading all the textures it uses into memory however, if the model isn't used yet (very likely with zombies using potentially ALL units in the game), will have a noticable impact for all machines (from my experience at least) and that will happen constantly with what you suggest.

 

you also have to think about what happens, when there is actually players all over the map. the gain you talk about is only temporary and highly dependent on situation. what good is an approach, if moving towards the worst case scenario will just degrade performance more and more in a major way?

my idea is more about being closer to the worst case scenario all the time in terms of presence of objects and their textures so (theoretically) performance with 2 players is closer to performance with ten players instead of having really good performance with two players and really bad performance with ten.

 

i have a test mission i use for testing on a friend's dedi from time to time and it has 250 agents (about 10 local modules in key locations and one ambient module combined) in total with good performance.

 

all that is only my personal philosophy and not everything of it is realised in the code yet (no hideobject or enablesim false yet). i might consider maybe using very light caching based on deletion of things in the future. not likely though. in my mind having all entities and models present already for use but only calculating stuff for them, if needed is the way to go.

 

i'd be interested in some detailed info on your set up though. you say "significantly reducing server performance" but you made no statement about how many zombies you are spawning and from how many modules with what kind of settings. i'd rather have people share set ups and findings in here, as i have asked for in the fors post, than making vague claims.

 

of course there are limits in terms of numbers. having all zombies active and hunting will have the same effect either way, no matter the approach. while for some cases deletion and recreation makes sense, i feel like for mass situations it's not ideal. i want to move away from situations where FPS drops hard when getting close to a settlement because suddenly all kinds of shit spawns. trying to get things more even and then improve that even need for resources.

 

then again. this is pretty early and experimental so things might change. i'm also open to suggestions for sure. just tried to explain the idea behind things and that it works like this on purpose.

 

(2)

safezone support is planned but i have only things i need to fix first. it's generally low on the list too since you already have the option to only spawn them in certain areas.

 

(3)

the VR zombies are not on purpose. i have code to filter them out but it seems like it fails. i jsut always forget to fix that stuff.

my internal version already has the custom class support though that i talked about earlier and it will be included in the next update. basically you can put in an array of class names or code (with {} around it) that outputs an array of class names. already tested and implemented. works great.

 

you will be able to use your own filters so you could have only scientist zombies in a research facility or only soldiers of a certain faction in an overrun camp that belongs to said faction.

[bl2ck dog 80]

Well, here's what I'm trying to do: PICTURE

Each of them need to spawn 50 zombies, plus ambient, plus 5-6 AI squads at dynamically spawned at EOS markers.

Quite strange, but even if I put 1 zombie to spawn at each location - my mission won't go past loading screen (or maybe it will, but I'm not patient enough).

Here's settings - PICTURE.

[bad benson 1733]

uhm. do you realise that you have around 50 modules placed? with 50 zombies each. that is 2500 zombies. :lol:  i have to say i appreciate you thinking that my work can pull that off lol.

 

you should maybe consider doing things in a more...reasonable way. this is the perfect case of what i was talking about. even with stuff not being present all the time. have 15 players each in a different village and shit will go south either way. especially with 50 zombies in each small area. try just placing 50 normal AI and watch your FPS drop.

 

==============================================================================================================================================================

 

i feel there is a misconception here. just because you can place 200 modules does not mean it's a good idea. same as view distance settings in the arma video options. i already do things in a way that stuff doesn't stack up. as in, there is only one zombie checked per frame and all of them one after another.

 

that way the expensive parts of the AI routines don't stack up but get spread out evenly at all times.

at one point i had considered and tested handling the modules themselves the same way to allow insane set ups like yours but it won't work. the problem is you can spread things only to a certain ratio until stuff becomes unresponsive. talking about zombie reactions and stuff. you need to keep things somewhat harsh in terms of what is done and when to have them react quickly enough.

 

while what you do there in general, combining ambient with local, is intended, i thought it would be obvious that you will have to do SOME judgement on your own on what is reasonable and what is not.

 

for the whole map thing the ambient mode is the way to go to give the overall appearance of having them everywhere. i will definately add more options like the blacklisting we talked about and more to make it more useful in the future. it's definately what you should focus on more in the future instead of spamming the map with local modules. not to mention your insane zombie counts per module.

 

===============================================================================================================================================================

 

anyways. thanks for the info and the nice illustration of the set up. that stuff is very useful not only to make things clear without having to write several pages of documentation but it will also help me and all of you the "official" limits and recommended settings and counts.

 

as for the loading times. i had that issue when i tried extreme settings myself. remember that by default the module will draw from ALL available units (including addons). so having these type of numbers will be bad. the amount of unique textures that can be loaded in at on time is not unlimited, hence many games optimizing that part a lot per scene. just for research you should either test this with the raptors (very limited amount of versions available for those) or wait until i release the version that allows your own limited class array.

 

 

another small hint. when testing i found it's a better idea to have way less but larger area modules, if you want to cover the map using those. try let's say 10 (since i tested that number) with, i dunno, 20 zombies each. either way don't go too crazy. the local mode is more intended for linear type missions and the ambient mode will be expanded. it's what is actually intended for the whole map thing. it's just very simple currently.

[bl2ck dog 80]

Point is, at this very map, every EOS area (red, blue and green) spawns 20-40 AI units (and another 20-40 two minutes after area is cleared).

And it works totally fine, since not more then 50 present at same time. If they'd all spawn simultaneously my PC probably collapse straight away )))

It's not meant for players running everywhere, maximum 2-3 small groups activating 3-5 areas at same time.

The way I see this can work, is to change the way local modules initialized - just add check if player present within certain range.

[bad benson 1733]

as i said. marker support for the ambient mode will be pretty much that without spawn stutter. it seems to be hard to believe but there is some thinking behind how things are set up. if EOS works great for what you need you should consider spawnign the zombies with it too. not sure but maybe Ryan zombies will work with it. mine won't. they are created through script.

[bl2ck dog 80]

Nah, sorry, I've probably explained it wrong.

Not spawning zombies through EOS, spawning normal AI (parallel to zombies), so they fight against both players and zombies.

Whole point is to get cities a bit more crowded that standard ambient zombie presence.

[bad benson 1733]

can you please read less sloppily so i can go back to my monday evening stuff instead of replying? i understood what you said. i said, if you are expecting the same exact behavior like EOS from my module's local mode, then why not use different zombies (like ryan's) and spawn them with EOS?

 

anyways. i made my point. good luck with your mission and thx for the extra info.

[Greatman 10]

uhm. do you realise that you have around 50 modules placed? with 50 zombies each. that is 2500 zombies. :lol:  i have to say i appreciate you thinking that my work can pull that off lol.

 

you should maybe consider doing things in a more...reasonable way. this is the perfect case of what i was talking about. even with stuff not being present all the time. have 15 players each in a different village and shit will go south either way. especially with 50 zombies in each small area. try just placing 50 normal AI and watch your FPS drop.

 

==============================================================================================================================================================

 

 

Hey, I came across something here, not sure if its an issue or me putting incorrect settings, I quoted the above to help me understand more, you say he selected 50 modules with 50 zombies each, what determines the count of zombies per module? is it not "Number of hostile agents" if so in his example he entered 1 . so if 50 modules at 1 its 50 zombies is that wrong assumption to make?

 

Now to my issue, I am using the raptor option and I currently only have two modules placed, while in editor i selected "number of hostile agents" to 6, and it seem to be translating correct, however when saving to mission.sqm and loading into my exile server, it seem only the first module work but with well over 100s of raptors, any ideas why? 

 

is there a function I can use to pass the parameters over it to have spawn from init.sqf or other method not that of mission.sqm?

[bad benson 1733]

try without exile.

 

@all

 

i've been sick twice the last few weeks and sadly over the weekends. so i have only been able to do some experiments. i decided to kind of rewrite a whole lot of it. this is normal though. don't worry. i do that a lot before i consider stuff stable. mostly due to trying a lot of things seeing what works best, me being self taught and still constantly learning new things.

 

basically i want to create a system that can distribute anything around all players based on certain criteria that ideally can be altered to whatever by mission makers (input actual condition code into the module UI similar to what i have for class selection in my internal version). most common example would be "only place things near houses/settlements". this will mostly apply to the ambient mode since the local mode is just there for simple use to throw toghether simple coop missions. so no worries if you used tha already in your missions.

 

the reason i want to go deeper into this is future plans for arma 2 ported wild life. so i need a system that is very flexible. first i tried just plugging a house check into what i had which was just the usual radial random placement. looking for houses however is very expensive (any object type). so i'm doing some experiments with a dynamic grid system that does these searches in small chunks over several frames so things still feel smooth even if you host a game for friends locally and are the host.

 

long story short. next update will take a while but i'm still working on it.

[callmesarge 7]

Just messing with this mod, it seems really cool. I am having a problem where Opfor units are not engaging Independent Raptors until after 1 or 2 units are killed first. I have checked that independent is set to hostile to Opfor, and the Raptors attack the opfor just fine. Any idea what could cause this?

[bad benson 1733]

hm. weird. i'm going to look into this. from your description i can't really tell what the issue is. the only thing i have noticed is arma's inbuilt team kill punishment system ruining the fun sometimes. if you have civ raptors or raptors from your own side the AI on your side will not like to see you shooting those raptors and start shooting you, if you kill too many. it might be related to your problem.

 

that's the reason i added the sides for the raptors. so people can play SP with AI squad mates on which ever side without being shot by them after killing too many raptors.

the raptors AI itself doesn't care at all which side the prey is on.

 

i'm still experimenting with stuff when i have the time to expand the ambient spawn system to something way more complex and flexible. so it will take a little while. but once i got that ready updates with possible new creatures will come faster. needs amore capable and solid base first.

[hcpookie 3770]

Yeah when that kicks in, you might be able to change the "enemy" status via the addrating command... may be a way to automate or loop this?

 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/sideEnemy

 

Quote

The enemy side (used for renegades). Unit of this side is enemy to everyone.
To become one, you can attack members of your own side or use addRating.
When below a rating of -2000 units switch automatically to this side.

 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/addRating

 

Also this:
 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Side_relations

 

Quote

2) Everyone is friendly toward Civilians. This means an armed Civilian will be able to slaughter unfriendly AI troops with impunity.

 

 

Finally this:

 

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/setFriend

 

Quote

Sets how friendly side1 is with side2. For a value smaller than 0.6 it results in being enemy, otherwise it's friendly.

 

[callmesarge 7]

Thanks for the advice guys. I think it was something in my mission cos it is working fine now - i am pretty sure its not a mod issue. I resolved by changing the spawn state to around player vs around module. 

[Papahyooie 0]

Love the work so far! The previous script I was using to spawn raptors (Fulcrum mission system) is no longer maintained and one of the Arma updates broke it, so I'm so glad someone else has taken up the mantle. Is this still in development? 

 

The reason I ask is I'm still having the problem of 80% of the raptors are all lying on the ground. They scream and will bite you if you walk up close enough, but they do not move. I read back in the thread that this was supposed to be fixed a couple of versions back, but I am running the latest version and still having the problem. Also, my RPT is heavily spammed with : 

 

10:49:51 Error in expression <t 1) + (cos _dir) * _dist, 0];
};


if (surfaceIsWater _pos) then
{
_pos = nil;
>
10:49:51   Error position: <surfaceIsWater _pos) then
{
_pos = nil;
>
10:49:51   Error Type Number,Not a Number, expected Number
10:49:51 File babe_raptors_modules\func\AM\fn_agentcache.sqf, line 41
10:49:51 Error in expression <l;
};

if (!isNil "_pos") then
{
_agent setpos _pos;
};	>
10:49:51   Error position: <setpos _pos;
};	>
10:49:51   Error Type Number,Not a Number, expected Number
10:49:51 File babe_raptors_modules\func\AM\fn_agentcache.sqf, line 48

My log file got up to 2gb in size on one four hour stretch, and Notepad++ wasn't able to open it anymore. 

 

Any insight as to why this is happening would be amazing. Thanks for the great work! 

[bad benson 1733]

going to rewrite a lot of it i think. mainly to optimise and make it easier to maintain for later updates. ihave some nice code ready in a mission of mine for environment based spawning that will be integrated.

 

thx for the bug report.

 

no ETA on the update though. just because it's a bad habit and also because real life is taking way more time and energy at the moment than it did before. i really want to udpate this though as a player and not just as an obligation. so know that i got some passion for it still. just don't want to make any promises.

 

as for the falling down. i neither experienced it in my latest tests nor did my steam page get spammed with reports of it. and the steam goblins are usually the first to be very vocal. so i'm assuming you somehow have old files. where did you get them from?

and if they are from steam, have you tried completely removing hte mod, updating steam and then freshly subscribing. i have had a lot of annoying confusion with enhanced movement update due to this.

[Papahyooie 0]

What is the current version? 

[jimbob6661 20]

Can you run this on a dedi as a servermod with the modules placed and config'd in the mission  so clients won't have to dl anything and make the first encounter a more hair-raising thing? I assume no but I'm forever hopeful.

[bad benson 1733]

4 hours ago, jimbob6661 said:

Can you run this on a dedi as a servermod with the modules placed and config'd in the mission  so clients won't have to dl anything and make the first encounter a more hair-raising thing? I assume no but I'm forever hopeful.

 

nope. but i can add support for addon free zombies. could work with the module on the server. will keep it in mind. working on the update right now.

[jimbob6661 20]

8 hours ago, bad benson said:

 

nope. but i can add support for addon free zombies. could work with the module on the server. will keep it in mind. working on the update right now.

Addon free zombies would be better than nothing, if there ever comes a way for addon free raptors I just don't know what I'd do with myself. I assume your server key is a one size fits all for EM and all?

[bad benson 1733]

8 hours ago, jimbob6661 said:

Addon free zombies would be better than nothing, if there ever comes a way for addon free raptors I just don't know what I'd do with myself. I assume your server key is a one size fits all for EM and all?

 

i can assure you that in the current state of the arma engine addon free raptors are not going to happen, ever.

 

not sure about the key actually. good point. might have to have seperate ones so it not automatically allows all my mods i guess.