Weapon sway in the Nexus update is ridiculously unrealistic

[quantti 2]

One thing besides the new fatigue system that the developers really messed up is the weapon sway. It's way too much sway to simulate the weapons handling of a professional soldier; it rather feels like I'm a 12-year old child soldier who has never before handled an assault rifle.

 

I mean, devs, really? Has any of you been to the army with live fire excersise training with an assault rifle? After even 1-2 times down the shooting range you learn to shoot very accurately from the crouch/knee position atleast up to 150m WITHOUT any scopes and you can control the sway far better than in the game even with a heavy rifle like the AK (we use an AK variant in our army).

 

Even when you go behind cover in crouch position and press "c" to support your weapon the sway is like a 10cm sinewave that goes all over the place... and no, being fatigued because of "fire&maneuver" doesn't make your hands tremble like a meth addicts and soldiers are taught to control their breathing in sync with their weapons.

 

So yeah, the new weapons sway is way over exaggerated to simulate the weapons handling of a professional soldier (or even a 12 month conscript like myself). I suggest for the devs to buy metallic airsoft guns and attach accelerometers to them and play a few rounds of pewpew if you never haven't had live fire assault excersise experience in your life.

[Bobbir 2]

Well the weapon sway isn´t all though.. in the update they managed to fuck up clothes armor + vests armor? In virtual arsenal the vests now has 0 armor.. might be that its supposed to be this way, but it looks strange and if you drive a vehicle in 20km/h u die instantly(if you drive into a wall) after the nexus update.

[en3x 209]

I wouldn't mind seeing less biased poll option description.We could use some kind of merge of all stamina threads really.

[julbo 2]

Nexus update... SERIOUSLY???

 

I created an account on this forum only to complain about this Nexus update... If the devs want to kill the game, they are on track with this release.

With their new sway system, it has become almost impossible to aim if you've been running on 5 meters, it feels like my soldier is an old grandmother coming directly from the hospice! And while my sight is turning around my target, the AI is shooting right at me... I mean like a sniper.

 

I hope the developers are reading this forum because I want to tell them that although they have been doing really good job so far, I won't play the game any more until this issue has been fixed... Anyway it's not playable aymore.

 

Cheers!

[jakeplissken 81]

I was playing Invade and Annex before. The recovery from sway is OK when you are prone, but my man was getting puffed again after crawling 30 CENTIMETERS! This is absurd. Sure, you should get puffed with 12 338 mags and a MAR10 rifle, but not moving 30 centimeters to get a better view for a 1700 meter shot. In Domination, I got two 2000 meter shots with a Lynx, so this is still possible, it is just the sway when you even move a tiny amount, and it comes in instantly. This needs to be fixed, get real soldiers to advise you on your sim game. I wonder if VBS3 has this problem. VBS2 Jcove lite does not.

 

Notice how the guy in this video is not panting like Homer Simpson after carrying a M240 MG.

 

[I give up 152]

The "weapon sway" is a bit exaggerated, mainly when we are firing from crouched position with full stamina and not "fatigued".
But I dont see it as a bad thing, this way is forcing the players to think better before engaging, is forcing the need of strategies, is forcing to play as a team, is forcing the use of more weapons to engage instead of a simple "bullet" and is forcing to have some advantage (numerical, strategic or positional) before engaging, not having it the chances for success are low, as it should be.
Without the above ARMA 3 is just one more shooter (like many out there) where you can run and shoot destroying an entire enemy squad just because you are an amazing lone wolf.
So, I like the way it is. This is ARMA.

[BL1P 35]

 it rather feels like I'm a 12-year old child soldier who has never before handled an assault rifle.

 

"It feels rather like a 12 year old wrote the poll options"

[quantti 2]

"It feels rather like a 12 year old wrote the poll options"

 

I was a littlebit tipsy when doing this thread and it was written in desperate anger towards the new update, and I failed even to use the search button to see there already is a poll about this. Might aswel delete this topic soon. Still, I feel like the poll options are really just exaggerated reflections of how the game feels currently in relation to reality.

 

ps. I'm not a native english speaker so pardon the wrong word order :P

[BL1P 35]

I was a littlebit tipsy when doing this thread and it was written in desperate anger towards the new update, and I failed even to use the search button to see there already is a poll about this. Might aswel delete this topic soon. Still, I feel like the poll options are really just exaggerated reflections of how the game feels currently in relation to reality.

 

ps. I'm not a native english speaker so pardon the wrong word order :P

 

Ah drunken posting, I have to admit I am guilty of that in the past also :) as the moderators would attest to. 

[mmaruda 20]

One thing I want to say about the new sway system is how it affects gameplay. I tried the Infantry showcase and it's impossible to go through it, even on lower difficulty (and I am good at shooters and I used to be able to murder AI in Arma in ridiculous numbers). Currently it goes like this - when the firefight starts you aim down your sight and instead of the enemy, you are battling the sway. I tried keeping my soldier rested, ditched all the redundant gear (did you know that a chemlight weighs about the same in Arma as full mag?) and moved slowly, yet my poor old apparently World War II veteran soldier struggled to hold his hands straigh. I got the impression that either everyone on Stratis/Altis is suffering from some crazy Atacama Desert heat, or they are just advanced alcoholics. So anyway, I spent about 2 hours trying to complete the mission and I kept dying. Hitting anything with that kind of weapons sway is nothing short of a miracle, though I would agree that it forces you to be more tactical... Or just light everyone you see with everything you've got Murica-style. Grenade lanchers are now the only effective weapon in the game it seems, but I am at least glad they are so effective, since I never really felt the need to use them.

 

But apart from all this, you know what breaks the game for me? While the AI seems really improved, they move tactically, use suppressive fire and all, your buddies die like flies. And you die like a useless old man everytime someone starts shooting at you. It now takes only one bullet for the enemy to drop you, or should I say crazy-rag-doll you. They either have 100% headshot rating, or their ammo is all hollow points. Interestingly enough, to kill the AI you need to land several shots on them or meybe just don't bother and use the grenade launcher. Moreover while the NATO forces seem all tactical and stuff, covering their sectors, using supressive fire, taking cover and all, the CSAT guys rush like a bunch of idiots and still win no sweat. I have also learned to hate the MX rifle - terrible accuracy, horrible recoil, someone clearly took a huge bribe to make this standard weaponry for the army.

 

What I am trying to say is, the game is not only completely not fun, but also very frustrating. It's one thing to face a challange, but here it's hard not to get the impression that the deck is stacked and everyting works against you. I bet my bottom dollar that it impossible to complete the campaign now and I also bet tha nobody bothered to test this system in it. Am I right?

 

My question for the devs is, why the hell you keep messing with all this? You improved the AI, added so many great stuff, and break the game with questionable decisions about a realism feature that everyone was happy with in Arma 2. There is no need to simulate wapon handling to a perfect level, it does not matter and you will never get it perfect. What matters is tactics, so why keep changing the sway? You want to improve realism? Cool, how about fixin the weapon-switch animation? All it would take is for the soldier to put the gun on his back barrel down. Like you know, the military is using 2 and 3-point slings since the stone-age has ended. Maybe work on the stealth system and add some non-lethal takedowns?

[I give up 152]

I have to agree. Atacama heat is just too much.

[mmaruda 20]

For what it's worth, I finally manage to complete the Infantry mission more or less by trial and error. I also made an interesting observation - it seem the sway of the weapon is directly linked to the movement of the chest when the soldier is breathing. The heavier the breathing the heavier the sway. An this is completely WRONG! The movement of a persons chest is in no way linked the movement of their arms. I even tested it IRL out of pure curiosity - took out my ASG gun, aimed down the sights and tried breathing as heavily as I could - nope, I was still able to hold the gun steady. Another observation I made in game, was that when you rapid fire single shots as in tripple tap and more, you are actually more accurate than when carefully trying to place shots. It's like the recoil kicks in after some time, so the faster you shoot the more accurate you are. Weird.

[julbo 2]

One thing I want to say about the new sway system is how it affects gameplay. I tried the Infantry showcase and it's impossible to go through it, even on lower difficulty (and I am good at shooters and I used to be able to murder AI in Arma in ridiculous numbers). Currently it goes like this - when the firefight starts you aim down your sight and instead of the enemy, you are battling the sway. I tried keeping my soldier rested, ditched all the redundant gear (did you know that a chemlight weighs about the same in Arma as full mag?) and moved slowly, yet my poor old apparently World War II veteran soldier struggled to hold his hands straigh. I got the impression that either everyone on Stratis/Altis is suffering from some crazy Atacama Desert heat, or they are just advanced alcoholics. So anyway, I spent about 2 hours trying to complete the mission and I kept dying. Hitting anything with that kind of weapons sway is nothing short of a miracle, though I would agree that it forces you to be more tactical... Or just light everyone you see with everything you've got Murica-style. Grenade lanchers are now the only effective weapon in the game it seems, but I am at least glad they are so effective, since I never really felt the need to use them.

 

But apart from all this, you know what breaks the game for me? While the AI seems really improved, they move tactically, use suppressive fire and all, your buddies die like flies. And you die like a useless old man everytime someone starts shooting at you. It now takes only one bullet for the enemy to drop you, or should I say crazy-rag-doll you. They either have 100% headshot rating, or their ammo is all hollow points. Interestingly enough, to kill the AI you need to land several shots on them or meybe just don't bother and use the grenade launcher. Moreover while the NATO forces seem all tactical and stuff, covering their sectors, using supressive fire, taking cover and all, the CSAT guys rush like a bunch of idiots and still win no sweat. I have also learned to hate the MX rifle - terrible accuracy, horrible recoil, someone clearly took a huge bribe to make this standard weaponry for the army.

 

What I am trying to say is, the game is not only completely not fun, but also very frustrating. It's one thing to face a challange, but here it's hard not to get the impression that the deck is stacked and everyting works against you. I bet my bottom dollar that it impossible to complete the campaign now and I also bet tha nobody bothered to test this system in it. Am I right?

 

My question for the devs is, why the hell you keep messing with all this? You improved the AI, added so many great stuff, and break the game with questionable decisions about a realism feature that everyone was happy with in Arma 2. There is no need to simulate wapon handling to a perfect level, it does not matter and you will never get it perfect. What matters is tactics, so why keep changing the sway? You want to improve realism? Cool, how about fixin the weapon-switch animation? All it would take is for the soldier to put the gun on his back barrel down. Like you know, the military is using 2 and 3-point slings since the stone-age has ended. Maybe work on the stealth system and add some non-lethal takedowns?

 

I fully agree with you, there are many other points to improve in order to make the game more realistic than the sway system which was ok in my opinion. As an example, something that shocks me is when you shoot at someone (AI or player) and you hit him, he will just quickly wriggle a bit and instantly get back shooting at you! just like we were doing a paintball game.

Damn he received a bullet! I don't know... even with "only" a 5.56 bullet in the leg he should be screaming rolling on the ground. or at least fall and get back up but not just shivering.

In the name of realism, this kind of things should be fixed far prior to the sway.

 

I just hope that the developers are reading us...

 

Cheers guys ;)

[mmaruda 20]

Wounding animations would be nice, but unlikely they will happen, however it's completely wrong that the AI does not suffer from their wounds. They wiggle and continue to shoot you like it's cool.

[fweefede 0]

I joined the forums just to agree with this thread. I can't play the game to any enjoyable level anymore. Why would you do this??

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

I think one of the issues is that a lot of people (including myself) aim down site to take advantage of the zoom, not necessarily to hold breath for a shot.

 

 

I also think that -- despite intentions -- its not smart game development to disrupt players comfort zones without good reason, so long (over 2 years) after game release. I think tweaking weapon sway in December 2013 is acceptable, tweaking weapon sway in Dec 2015 is not.

[andersson 285]

I aim down the sights to hit the target (I play without floating crosshair). I have also changed the default doublebinding so I can zoom and hold breath independently.

[DAP 619]

Wounding animations would be nice, but unlikely they will happen, however it's completely wrong that the AI does not suffer from their wounds. They wiggle and continue to shoot you like it's cool.

And this issue solved...  by community. ACE3, VTN... Sometimes I thinking: "Why I doing this instead of BI?" :D

[froggyluv 2136]

Wounding animations would be nice, but unlikely they will happen, however it's completely wrong that the AI does not suffer from their wounds. They wiggle and continue to shoot you like it's cool.

 

 This 100% has to be addressed and hopefully will be in the expansion. The wiggle is no longer cute and even if it does disrupt the Ai's ability to re-center its aim -its not really felt as being played out that way and comes off across as a mosqituo in the ear. Wouldn't mind it quite as much if only the elite types did that while conscripts screamed and dropped or something but everyone shirking just looks and plays out as way too gamey.

 

 I complained in Arma2 that they were mere statues when shot, not reacting at all as red puffs danced around them so am happy they started down this path,the problem is they took a coffee break and never came back...

 

 On sway its definitely a little over the top but understand some mechanic is needed to nerf the waaay too easy shooting -as someone said "i used to murder counteless AI in droves..." -thats not good nor fun save for the egomaniac. Worsen the caustics and tighten the sway radius a bit and all will be good.

 

 *Havent tried any Dev Branches yet

[jone_kone 158]

So... what are peoples thoughts on the sway after the hotfix yesterday? 

[St. Jimmy 272]

So... what are peoples thoughts on the sway after the hotfix yesterday?

I'd say bit too easy for stand up and crouched stance but I pretty much expected that after the community rant.

[jone_kone 158]

I'd say bit too easy for stand up and crouched stance but I pretty much expected that after the community rant.

 

You need to start a new thread "Hotfix sway unrealistic, ruined my game - goodbye BI!" :D It needed tweaking sure, but maybe not this much... :) Well, they wont probably touch it ever again. That´s for sure. The thing I found most sad about it, was how it affected all guns and launchers the same. I would have liked the sway to be in relation with the guns weight.

 

Although not superrealistc you would then have gotten the double benefit of having a lighter load and more stable sight eg. with an smg. Atleast while standing / crouching. Launchers and binos could have had reduced effect. Oh well... lost oppurtunities etc. 

[pettka 694]

You need to start a new thread "Hotfix sway unrealistic, ruined my game - goodbye BI!" :D It needed tweaking sure, but maybe not this much... :) Well, they wont probably touch it ever again. That´s for sure. The thing I found most sad about it, was how it affected all guns and launchers the same. I would have liked the sway to be in relation with the guns weight.

 

Although not superrealistc you would then have gotten the double benefit of having a lighter load and more stable sight eg. with an smg. Atleast while standing / crouching. Launchers and binos could have had reduced effect. Oh well... lost oppurtunities etc.

Actually, the solution we have provided for the hotfix is meant to be an interim solution - we are still evaluating proper system and settings. It may end to be the same as the current one, but the top men are on the case :icon_twisted:

And just to make it clear, the sway is based on weapon, we have just tweaked the general values for sway. It is much easier to see the difference without holding breath as doing so stabilizes Your weapon.

[jone_kone 158]

Actually, the solution we have provided for the hotfix is meant to be an interim solution - we are still evaluating proper system and settings. It may end to be the same as the current one, but the top men are on the case :icon_twisted:

And just to make it clear, the sway is based on weapon, we have just tweaked the general values for sway. It is much easier to see the difference without holding breath as doing so stabilizes Your weapon.

 

Sweet! Thanks for taking the time to give a little input! :)

 

I played around with the hotfix sway yesterday for maybe an hour or so, so in no way tested extensively. I did some running around with a vermin/kriss, MXC, MX, MX SW, MXM and SPMG. What I found was that while standing moderately exhausted there was no big difference between Vermin / SPMG (if I remember correctly). If i got the stamina bar to red, then there was considerable swaying in the standing stance for all weapons (binos and launchers also). In my head a Vermin, MXC, TRG-21 should be easier to control even if fatigued than a MX,  MX SW or SPMG. An SPMG shouldn´t be very controllable standing at all even if not fatigued.

 

But keep tweaking it, im sure you´ll find a sweetspot where everyone is happy at some point. :) I also belive that most of the complaining was due to the that the 1.54 sway came as a suprise to many (not everyone reads the SITREP:s). I work in IT and end-users rarely respond well to big changes even if it would be for the best in the long run. :) Change the system gradually in small steps and the complaining will be much less. :D

[I give up 152]

Actually, the solution we have provided for the hotfix is meant to be an interim solution - we are still evaluating proper system and settings. It may end to be the same as the current one, but the top men are on the case :icon_twisted:

And just to make it clear, the sway is based on weapon, we have just tweaked the general values for sway. It is much easier to see the difference without holding breath as doing so stabilizes Your weapon.

It is perfect.

Please keep it.