mistyronin 1181 Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) You are flame baiting or what ?? Compare the price let's use example bread in russia and in germany Russia 0.19/€ german 1.28 € So? If a German goes to Russia is that much times richer. It's simple maths. Money is money, and it allows you to buy companies or whatever anywhere in the World. ;) Besides you can't even compare all the social benefits and its quality a German citizen has compared to a Russian. You are really funny guy to me you are full of some documents that are only nominal for those countries for some reason Russian people are not poorer in the europe maybe you have some bad infos about that but nah man Russians are not poor ! Yeah, the fact that I'm living a few km of Russia, and visited it different times in addition of having a lot of friends in Russia... Maybe let me judge how Russians standards are. And yeah... compared to Western or Northern Europe, or with North Americans, yes, Russians are poor, really poor. Edited June 28, 2015 by MistyRonin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rydygier 1317 Posted June 28, 2015 nice one Rydygier +10 To make it clear: There's no hidden thesis behind, I'm just plainly asking about some fundamental things, that maybe are left unanswered too easily. I want to induce some deeper cogitation on democracy and really want to know, what people across the world, from different cultures etc. in fact think about this. I have feeling, we're used to talk about democracy as something obviously the best. But if I accept something, because its "obvious" or "everyone know that", then I'm in danger, because I'm surrendering own reason and judgement on this. Also how I could defend it in discussion with some critic (somehow not all love democracy and not everywhere it works), if I never really thought for myself, why actually I'm accepting it. If this is indeed the best system, then I'm harming its idea beeing unprepared to defend it in substantive way. There are some difficult matters about democracy, that require toughtful answer. We can see that eg when we watching results of "forced exporting of democracy" in some countries or when we see, what democratically chosen politicians are doing. Or how media are shaping opinins/votes before election. How easily media are manipulating the electorate. Or how differently people can define democracy itself. Et cetera and so forth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srbknight 925 Posted June 28, 2015 So? If a German goes to Russia is that much times richer. It's simple maths. Money is money, and it allows you to buy companies or whatever anywhere in the World. ;)Besides you can't even compare all the social benefits and its quality a German citizen has compared to a Russian. Yeah, the fact that I'm living a few km of Russia, and visited it different times in addition of having a lot of friends in Russia... Maybe let me judge how Russians standards are. And yeah... compared to Western or Northern Europe, or with North Americans, yes, Russians are poor, really poor. Yes you visit Russia and i live in Russia and you telling me how my country is ? Then you are very funny man you don't want to compare the real life estate in both countries i was live in 3 months in Germany had work with income of 1.600E every month but i need to pay Rent for 1 room house 500E i had to pay electricity 70E i have to pay food for monthly 400E and some stuff that i have purchased i don't like that life it's fast life fast work fast move i was live there 3 months and move back to live my beautiful life in Russia. I am from Serbia actually but i was moved to Russia in 2003 with family and 2012 decide to find work in EU and work occurs i was finished curse for helping old people and work there three months and decide to back ! I have few friends in EU and they can't imagine life in Russia with 760$ per month but when i have explain them how work and life actually are functioning there they was been surprised. I don't know which "friends" you have in Russia but if they are don't happy with life in Motherland then EU is close only people that are not employed live bad life ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) Some general question on democracy then, I'm really courious, what people from various countries really think: I think it's a good exercise. Define democracy - what's obligatory components of the system making it democratic (to be sure, we know, about what exactly we're talking). - Separation of powers (Legislative, Executive, Judicial). - Secular state (no official religion) - Capability of citizens to carry on policies. - Universal free vote and secure (no threats nor influence of external powers nor the local gov, hence Freedom of Press is paramount). - Respect to the human rights: Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of sexuality, Freedom of movement, Equality of rights among individuals etc. (if possible in the Constitution). Is democracy the best system ever and forever and why? As Winston Churchill well said: "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." Up to this day, democracy is the best IMHO due to all the advantages it brings to all levels (citizen, government, national/cultural). Is democracy the best system for all countries on the planet and why? Yes, for all the mentions previously said. Is democracy in uniform shape the best system for all countries (so every country should adapt its culture, mentality and traditions to certain shape of democracy) or should democracy be adapted to the local specifics (culture, mentality, traditions). Which shape it is if so and why? IMO there are certain values that should be standard: those in the Declaration of Human Rights (specially the most basic of them). But once these ones are meet, indeed, democracy should adapt to local specifics (so it allows monarchies, presidential republics, conventional republics, different length of mandates, social benefits, public education, etc.). It all depends to what the citizens vote. No democracy is exactly the same as another. Citizen votes makes them different. Is democracy in modern flavors good enough/optimal or could/should be improved? How and what are the flaws of democracy if so? Democracy is not perfect, as any product of humanity. And of course it still has to be improved. Some flaws of democracy are that is the difficulty to avoid economic crisis (bubbles) and monopolies. Also IMO it could be more representative, using more direct democracy taking advantage of the new technologies, like in Switzerland. So politicians have less power and citizens can decide more on their lives. Is there any possible decent alternative for democracy? IMO no, all the rest (authoritarian regimes) are clearly harmful to its citizens, for its nation/culture and for the rest of the World. - - - SRBKnight you can make all the tricks you can, but you only have to visit a supermarket in Russia and in Germany, see the different quality of products; same with the social benefits. And with €500 in Russia, you can buy the same companies or raw materials in the international market as with €500 in the US. Edited June 28, 2015 by MistyRonin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srbknight 925 Posted June 28, 2015 SRBKnight you can make all the tricks you can, but you only have to visit a supermarket in Russia and in Germany, see the different quality of products; same with the social benefits. And with €500 in Russia, you can buy the same companies or raw materials in the international market as with €500 in the US. Yes i forgot to mention on GMO in German Markets and organic products in Russia Yes totally US is democratic country with free media ?? hah maybe but Main medias are owning elites and politicians of US that's very smart and stupid trick ! ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted June 28, 2015 Yes totally US is democratic country with free media ?? hah maybe but Main medias are owning elites and politicians of US that's very smart and stupid trick ! ;) In the US there's tons of mass media services, owned by all kinds of people and companies (even YouTube could be considered a mass media, and it was created in 2005 by three average middle-class guys). So no, the US Gov or parliament has no direct influence on them, just the opposite. So yeah, the US has a clear freedom of press. And you can see it in campaigns like the Obama one, that was funded mainly by middle and low class people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srbknight 925 Posted June 28, 2015 In the US there's tons of mass media services, owned by all kinds of people and companies (even YouTube could be considered a mass media, and it was created in 2005 by three average middle-class guys). So no, the US Gov or parliament has no direct influence on them, just the opposite.So yeah, the US has a clear freedom of press. And you can see it in campaigns like the Obama one, that was funded mainly by middle and low class people. YouTube ??? i never said YouTube is under influence I am talking about Six Jewish Companies Control 96% Of The World’s Media including CNN FOX NBC three mainly US medias The largest media conglomerate today is Walt Disney Company, whose chairman and CEO, Michael Eisner, is a Jew. The Disney Empire, headed by a man described by one media analyst as a “control freakâ€, includes several television production companies (Walt Disney Television, Touchstone Television, Buena Vista Television), its own cable network with 14 million subscribers, and two video production companies. As for feature films, the Walt Disney Picture Group, headed by Joe Roth (also a Jew), includes Touchstone Pictures, Hollywood Pictures, and Caravan Pictures. Disney also owns Miramax Films, run by the Weinstein brothers. When the Disney Company was run by the Gentile Disney family prior to its takeover by Eisner in 1984, it epitomized wholesome, family entertainment. While it still holds the rights to Snow White, under Eisner, the company has expanded into the production of graphic sex and violence. In addition, it has 225 affiliated stations in the United States and is part owner of several European TV companies. ABC’s cable subsidiary, ESPN, is headed by president and CEO Steven Bornstein, a Jew. This corporation also has a controlling share of Lifetime Television and the Arts & Entertainment Network cable companies. ABC Radio Network owns eleven AM and ten FM stations, again in major cities such as New York, Washington, Los Angeles, and has over 3,400 affiliates. Although primarily a telecommunications company, Capital Cities/ABC earned over $1 billion in publishing in 1994. It owns seven daily newspapers, Fairchild Publications, Chilton Publications, and the Diversified Publishing Group. Time Warner, Inc, is the second of the international media leviathans. The chairman of the board and CEO, Gerald Levin, is a Jew. Time Warner’s subsidiary HBO is the country’s largest pay-TV cable network. Warner Music is by far the world’s largest record company, with 50 labels, the biggest of which is Warner Brothers Records, headed by Danny Goldberg. Stuart Hersch is president of Warnervision, Warner Music’s video production unit. Goldberg and Hersch are Jews. Warner Music was an early promoter of “gangsta rap.†Through its involvement with Interscope Records, it helped popularize a genre whose graphic lyrics explicitly urge Blacks to commit acts of violence against Whites. In addition to cable and music, Time Warner is heavily involved in the production of feature films (Warner Brothers Studio) and publishing. Time Warner’s publishing division (editor-in-chief Norman Pearlstine, a Jew) is the largest magazine publisher in the country (Time, Sports Illustrated, People, Fortune). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted June 28, 2015 YouTube ??? i never said YouTube is under influence I am talking about Six Jewish Companies Control 96% Of The World’s Media including CNN FOX NBC three mainly US medias Specially nowadays with the Internet, everyone can have it's on TV channel. Besides there's dozens of mass media diff alternatives to CNN, FOX and NBC. So again no. BTW mind to share where do you take that 96% from? And what do you try to say about it's religion? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srbknight 925 Posted June 28, 2015 http://theunjustmedia.com/Media/Six%20Jewish%20Companies%20Control%2096%25%20of%20the%20World%E2%80%99s%20Media.htm http://www.rense.com/general44/sevenjewishamericans.htm http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jews-in-the-media-hollywood/ Source! i am just rewrite the thread of these articles ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John Kozak 14 Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) Yes i forgot to mention on GMO in German Markets and organic products in Russia YouTube ??? i never said YouTube is under influence I am talking about Six Jewish Companies Control 96% Of The World’s Media including CNN FOX NBC three mainly US medias GMO and Zionist government - two conspiracy theories in two consecutive posts. Do you seriously believe in that? Now you see what kind of people is supporting the current government the most. Edited June 28, 2015 by DarkWanderer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srbknight 925 Posted June 28, 2015 GMO and Zionist government - two conspiracy theories in two consecutive posts. Do you seriously believe in that? Why should i not believe in that ? you have some other options ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted June 28, 2015 http://theunjustmedia.com/Media/Six%20Jewish%20Companies%20Control%2096%25%20of%20the%20World%E2%80%99s%20Media.htmhttp://www.rense.com/general44/sevenjewishamericans.htm http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jews-in-the-media-hollywood/ Source! i am just rewrite the thread of these articles ! I wouldn't like to be rude. But the quality of those sources is at least questionable / laughable... Besides that kind of conspiracy theories are not allowed in the forum (theads have been closed due to that). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John Kozak 14 Posted June 28, 2015 Why should i not believe in that ? you have some other examples ? I won't even waste time typing, keep believing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srbknight 925 Posted June 28, 2015 I won't even waste time typing, keep believing. Thank you ---------- Post added at 08:37 ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 ---------- I wouldn't like to be rude. But the quality of those sources is at least questionable / laughable... Yes better this http://rt.com/op-edge/268627-saudi-arabia-bought-us-media/ to show how democracy is actually working in US&A Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted June 28, 2015 Yes better this http://rt.com/op-edge/268627-saudi-arabia-bought-us-media/ to show how democracy is actually working in US&A You are posting an opinion column from a Kremlin funded / owned media... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srbknight 925 Posted June 28, 2015 You are posting an opinion column from a Kremlin funded / owned media... You really believe in that ? Oh that's the problem why is this now problem i can give you another http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/19/technology/saudi_prince_twitter/ http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/16/investing/saudi-arabia-stock-exchange-opens-to-foreigners-june-15/ http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/09/investing/snapchat-saudi-prince-alwaleed/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted June 28, 2015 You are posting an opinion column from a Kremlin funded / owned media... Welcome to Internet where everything you can find is considered as a valid source, because of the lack of critical mind and knowledge. That's how IS is wining some credulous folk, as any sectarian movements. The same happened in the 30's in Europe, where the mainstream press was considered as a judeo masonic plot, and where scientific reasoning was beaten by any wishful thinking theories. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted June 28, 2015 You really believe in that ? Oh that's the problem why is this now problem i can give you another http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/19/technology/saudi_prince_twitter/ http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/16/investing/saudi-arabia-stock-exchange-opens-to-foreigners-june-15/ http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/09/investing/snapchat-saudi-prince-alwaleed/ What do you want me to say about that? Saudis have money and invest it. That's not news. And doesn't mean that the US media is controlled by the US Gov. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srbknight 925 Posted June 28, 2015 What do you want me to say about that? Saudis have money and invest it. That's not news. And doesn't mean that the US media is controlled by the US Gov. You really believe in that ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted June 28, 2015 In Russia the freedom of speech is really limited, the Government controls all the mass media. Hence that's why it has a huge support (like in any other dictatorship). Russia also restricts a lot of other democratic rights, like the freedom of sexuality. Political opponents are killed, same with some journalist. Oh ole good russophobic propaganda again... Yes, that's why a large group of internet portals, newspapers and journals is ruled by US-based Hearst Corporation. And main western TV channels are freely available in all the ISP's lists. Freedom of sexuality? Please be so kind and bring a link to any law or judical act that prohibits any kind of sexuality in Russia. Maybe you do not know but restricting freedom of sexuality and restricting propaganda of sexual perversions are two different things. Here nobody cares if two (or even more;)) mature people make sex in some unusual way. Until they do it at home (or in their dedicated clubs) and don't try to get some privileges because of their reluctance to make sex in straight way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
srbknight 925 Posted June 28, 2015 Oh ole good russophobic propaganda again...Yes, that's why a large group of internet portals, newspapers and journals is ruled by US-based Hearst Corporation. And main western TV channels are freely available in all the ISP's lists. Freedom of sexuality? Please be so kind and bring a link to any law or judical act that prohibits any kind of sexuality in Russia. Maybe you do not know but restricting freedom of sexuality and restricting propaganda of sexual perversions are two different things. Here nobody cares if two (or even more;)) mature people make sex in some unusual way. Until they do it at home (or in their dedicated clubs) and don't try to get some privileges because of their reluctance to make sex in straight way. I am talking the same thing but it's worthless ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted June 28, 2015 I am talking the same thing but it's worthless ! Mindless Raegan-style russophobic propaganda that is almost copying US DoD press releases repeated by some forum users here reminds me 30's in one European country when a large efforts were taken to prepare the population for another Drang nach Osten. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John Kozak 14 Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) Oh ole good russophobic propaganda again...Yes, that's why a large group of internet portals, newspapers and journals is ruled by US-based Hearst Corporation. And main western TV channels are freely available in all the ISP's lists. Freedom of sexuality? Please be so kind and bring a link to any law or judical act that prohibits any kind of sexuality in Russia. Maybe you do not know but restricting freedom of sexuality and restricting propaganda of sexual perversions are two different things. Here nobody cares if two (or even more;)) mature people make sex in some unusual way. Until they do it at home (or in their dedicated clubs) and don't try to get some privileges because of their reluctance to make sex in straight way. Strawman argument detected. Why didn't you say something about fake judicial processes over opposition politics, about Nemtsov's killing, about attacks (backed by police) on election observers? About changes in constitution to back "main party's" interests? Oh. They don't exist in your world, right? Anything that is not pro-Putin does not exist. Anyone who dares to say otherwise is a "western agent". And after all that paranoia you accuse people living in Europe of "Russophobic propaganda"? Nice try, yeah. Edited June 28, 2015 by DarkWanderer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted June 28, 2015 Oh ole good russophobic propaganda again...Yes, that's why a large group of internet portals, newspapers and journals is ruled by US-based Hearst Corporation. And main western TV channels are freely available in all the ISP's lists. So you are telling me that the main mass Russian media is not controlled by the Russian Government? For instance the ones that dominate the TV audiences are Channel One Russia, Russia 1, Russia 24, TNT, NTV, Zvezda, Russia 2, Russia Today, ProRussia.tv (all of them owned by Russian Gov.) :rolleyes: Seems that all the Freedom of press index in the World, seem to indicate that in Russia there's no Freedom of press. But hey... maybe the World is russophobe... https://rsf.org/index2014/data/carte2014_en.png (865 kB) Freedom of sexuality? Please be so kind and bring a link to any law or judical act that prohibits any kind of sexuality in Russia. Maybe you do not know but restricting freedom of sexuality and restricting propaganda of sexual perversions are two different things. Here nobody cares if two (or even more;)) mature people make sex in some unusual way. Until they do it at home (or in their dedicated clubs) and don't try to get some privileges because of their reluctance to make sex in straight way. You answered yourself. Freedom of sexuality means that a person can be homosexual without any discrimination against him/her for that fact: be it in the middle of the street, in the internet, anywhere. (Human Rights Watch) Russia: Anti-LGBT Law a Tool for Discrimination Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rydygier 1317 Posted June 28, 2015 I think it's a good exercise. Thanks. At some point maybe I'll try too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
