A question of ethics

[dm 9]

With the possible release of p3d edit in the not too distant future, the possibilities for Ofp editing will be thrown right open.

Now this raises the question:

"Should we edit the base game units?"

This entails improveing the soldier models, by say - removing the bedrolls, and adjusting the helmets so they actually look like k-pots. Improveing the pilots models, so they have propper helmets/visors, and equipment (life jackets and survival gear). Improveing some features on weapons/vehicles.

This also poses the question:

"Is editing the base units allowed?"

People have created numerous sound packs/upgradess that have changed the sound.pbo, would we be allowed to do the same with the base units?

Now this thread aims to get your views, and ideas for how the units could be improved. And whether or not we should actually edit the units or just create addon ones.

Please feel free to add any opinion ON THIS TOPIC to this thread, i look foreward to peoples ideas.

[Eviscerator 0]

i think marek said we are allowed to edit all of bis's ofp (cant think of a better word than 'stuff' ) as long as its not sold, i think there are a few addons that could be made that could be useful addons, say a brdm with a turret, or a proper kiowa warrior, and some choice in the weapons for other models, but i think as with demo models, there is only so much you can make with them, and after a while from scratch addons will be much more welcomed, i think the soldier models could use some serious work, they are only modelled for troops ready for an assault at the minute, they have no bergens or proper webbing, (although im seeing this from a english standpoint), so i think as long as its a useful change than i would welcome it, if its a hummer with a pretty sea gull head first through the windscreen i probably wont welcome it as much

[walker 0]

Hi DeadMeatXM2

I may be missunderstanding.

Dont Edit the base units. Copy them to a new addon then edit them as a new addon. Editing the base units would stray into cheating in MP. I dont think the engine will allow this I hope not.

Using other addons as a basis for new ones needs the original makers crediting.

You can add bergens to existing models already. It would be better to add a rucksack object rather than just altering the model. Although how to do this in OFP I dont know.

I am remaking my wetsuit it looks like a rucksack but that is as part of the ship or car class and transports the driver rather than being transported by the soldier.

We need to able to create our own classes to do these things properly. Maybe with the next patch wishes prays hopes.

Kind Regards Walker

[VXR 9]

he means editing inside the data3d pbo with p3dedit

[FW200 0]

I think that , as long as we have permission from BIS , there is no problem with editing units and improving them

We edited the Demo models right? We changed the textures right? So I think we can edit the base units too..

Just my opinion

FW200

[VXR 9]

you wont need permission to edit them, you maybe need permission to release it but not just editing for yourself

[N.o.R.S.u 0]

If you edit the soldier models and try to use them in multiplayer for better athmosphere the game just crashes. I replaced the old tree models with high quality ones from Resistance, but when I tried them in MP I got CTD . So I assume that same happens if you use edited soldier models . But the replaced tree models worked well in single player, so edited soldiers should also work well in SP .

Releasing addons that are made from edited original models shouldn't be a problem. After all there are hundreds of addons made from original OFP models by retexturing them...

[dm 9]

What i'm really asking, is with the impending release of p3d edit, would people like to see a definitive pack (similar to say, satchels sound pack) with the base units' p3d's, edited with p3d edit to make them more realistic, and then repacked into the "data3d.pbo" so that mp does not consider it as cheating (only the model will be changed), and the game feels/looks more realistic.

My ideas for editing the units include:

Basic Soldier;

         Helmet enlarged and edited to look more like a k-pot, webing added, bedroll removed, bergen/assult bergen (smaller than a normal bergen) added, extra detail to the model such as kevlar vest.

Pilot;

         Helmet improved, so it actually looks like a helmet used by pilots (with shielding for the visor when its in the "up" position, additions to the model, such as gun holster, survival gear/life jacket.

Black Op;

         Improved webing, kevlar vest added etc...

The east units would have the same improvements (but to eastern specs)

Vehicles;

Jeep with MG;

        Improvements to the model so that it looks more like the gun is mounted onto the jeep rather than stuck on the end of a 4 foot piece of scaffolding.

BMP/M113;

         External cargo proxies added, possibly remove the armour turret on the m113, just have open m2, general model improvements e.g. wheels made more round.

Aircraft:

UH-60;

        General model improvements, the uh-60 is lacking in real detail, which can be improved (considering there are some 2500 poly to play with)

AH-1;

        General model improvements, actually model the pitot tube (so it's not fuzzy due to alpha channels), extra model details.

Mi-17;

        Remove the machine gun from the nose - which doesn't actually do anything.

Thats most of my ideas, but don't get me wrong BIS made an excellent job of OFP , but due to the powers that be   they had to rush to meet their release dates (as do most game makers), so some of the models suffered for it, its allways the way. Also BIS modellers did not use the full potential of the game engine . For example the UH-60 is only 1500 polys, where it could easily be up to 3/4000 polys , giving it that extra detail and realism. A lot of the soldier models are not right, as most soldiers would tell you, for campaings like Malden/Everon islands they would allways go in with bergens for ammo and supplies.

Well thats my speech over, anybody with any other ideas for model improvements fire away:

cheers :

[drewb99 0]

The UH60, M113, BMP, and most of the soldiers could be done now by editing demo MLODs.

[Gollum1 0]

The #1 addon I would like to see is an all-encompassing OFP realism patch, with all units replaced or patched to be more realistic (not stuff like loaders for tanks, more like weapon names, damage modeling etc.). OFP isn´t a simulation, but little tweaks would add a lot to the atmosphere!

[N.o.R.S.u 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and then repacked into the "data3d.pbo" so that mp does not consider it as cheating (only the model will be changed), and the game feels/looks more realistic.<span id='postcolor'>

If you want use edited models in MP, then all other players (and server) must have the "improvement pack" installed. Like I said before, I tried to raise the athmosphere by putting Resistance tree models into data3d.pbo. It worked well in SP but in MP I got CTD . So I assume that it's not possible to

use modified data3d.pbo in MP. But it will work perfectly in SP (increases replayability of OFP campaigns).

[dm 9]

did you put the res models into the dta/data3d.pbo, or the res/dta/data3d.pbo?

Cos if it was the first one then that will be what caused the CTD.

If it was the second one then there could be a problem there - probably mission design related? i wouldn't know without testing.

The problem with using the demo models, is that there are quite a few texture/model differences between the demo and 1.75 Resistance.

I would like to wait, and use p3d edit, so i would only have to change the model, and not completely re-texture it (which is a pain in the a$$ )

And Gollum1, i have done half of what you are asking allready, by changing the stringtable.csv i have renamed practically every unit in the game so it is realistic. This will probably be included in any "realism pack" i may do.

[dm 9]

Anybody else got any ideas, opinions?

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Eviscerator @ Oct. 05 2002,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><snip>i think marek said we are allowed to edit all of bis's ofp (cant think of a better word than 'stuff' ) as long as its not sold <snip><span id='postcolor'>

Then why won't Kegetys release his winter Nogova?

[acidcrash 0]

i think he said it was down to it using the BIS config.cpp or somthing, and that he would have to write his own

dont quote me on that though, im not entirely sure

[N.o.R.S.u 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Then why won't Kegetys release his winter Nogova?<span id='postcolor'>

Because Nogova and its foliage is big part of Resistance... (I think Kegetys has explained this plenty of times already )

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">did you put the res models into the dta/data3d.pbo, or the res/dta/data3d.pbo?

Cos if it was the first one then that will be what caused the CTD.

If it was the second one then there could be a problem there - probably mission design related? i wouldn't know without testing.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes I put the new Data3D.pbo to res\dta\hwtl\ and to res\dta\ still a CTD .

But! New Data.pbo works well in MP and SP, I have replaced BIS' AK-47, AK-74 and AK-47CZ textures with UCE's photorealistic AK-textures and I have also replaced BIS' XM-textures with Fliper's(?) ones.

[Eviscerator 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Oct. 07 2002,13:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Eviscerator @ Oct. 05 2002,11:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><snip>i think marek said we are allowed to edit all of bis's ofp (cant think of a better word than 'stuff' ) as long as its not sold <snip><span id='postcolor'>

Then why won't Kegetys release his winter Nogova?  <span id='postcolor'>

because, for addons based on the standard units you need to have ofp for them to be of any use at all, for nogova you dont need resistance to use it, (but the v-80 does), maybe if suma or someone can work with kegetys to make a way to make sure people have resistance, by coding the p3d or something, or say whether he is allowed...

[Major Fubar 0]

*sigh* The point I was trying to make is if Marek said we are alowed to edit (and, I assume, distribute for free) all of BISs OFP units, then why can't winter Nogova be released.

I take it then that this means we have one set of rules applying to OFP, and another set applying to OFP:R?

[KTottE 0]

Major Fubar. If Kegetys releases Winter Nogovo, people who have not purchased OFP:R will be able to play on Nogovo anyway.

See the point?

It's not a different set of rules for OFP:R addons. It's common sense

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KTottE @ Oct. 08 2002,07:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Major Fubar. If Kegetys releases Winter Nogovo, people who have not purchased OFP:R will be able to play on Nogovo anyway.

See the point?

It's not a different set of rules for OFP:R addons. It's common sense <span id='postcolor'>

So, if we can modify and distribute OFP stuff but not OFP:R stuff, then, that would mean...hmmm...let me think...that we have one set of rules for OFP and another for OFP:R...just like I said, yes?

All I'm asking for is confirmation that this is the case...

[ralphwiggum 6]

The problem of OFPR addons converted to 1.46 is that the objects are part of price for OFPR. so should soneone release the 1.75 objects for free, 1.46 platers can enjoy it without paying price(fraction of) that other ppl paid for OFPR.

for OFPR players, they must have OFP, so it's not big deal.