[WIP] Halo Covenant

[ltfrankie 1]

OP, you should talk to the guys working on the warhammer 40k mod for arma 2. Chances are they can give you pointers.

As for balance, they should be balanced. Just asymmetrical. You could make say, Kig Yar feel less recoil to make them better marksman, but be more frail than humans. Going by Lance formations, only 1:6-7 players would be an Elite anyway. Though thinking about it, Unggoy really feel more suitable as NPC-controlled fodder. I guess the low quality of the more numerous Unggoy help balance out the superiority of Elites versus humans, not counting NPCs.

Gameplay wise, you should remember this is still a milsim and keep in mind this will be used alongside OPTRE. So having to empty thirty shots with an MA5 into an Elite would be ridiculous, but it should be more than what a UNSC heavy marine or ODST can take.

As for Elites vs Spartan IIs: I think Spartan IIIs and Elites are more on par with eachother. I think SIIs would be better than most Elites--closer to Ultras & Zealots in skill. I vaguely remember one Zealot in one of the Halo novels being described by John as being an even match. My reasoning is that Spartan IIs are the most selectively chosen and trained to be superhuman transhumans. It's the wheat separated from the chaff, which is then further separated and refined for the best wheat there is to make some gourmet bread with truffles. The Elites meanwhile are an entire species of warriors, so I think the vastly larger numbers and the more general combat roles Elites fulfill mean they won't be up to the same standard. Though really, this would only effect AI skill levels.

[somesangheili 111]

So having to empty thirty shots with an MA5 into an Elite would be ridiculous, but it should be more than what a UNSC heavy marine or ODST can take.

I disagree, that would be awesome (fear us).

Maybe there should be an optional module of some kind that gets rid of Sangheili personal energy shields so they're less armoured, only if you want it to be more even...

[ltfrankie 1]

I disagree, that would be awesome (fear us).

Maybe there should be an optional module of some kind that gets rid of Sangheili personal energy shields so they're less armoured, only if you want it to be more even...

It would be too jarring to have covenant use arena shooter armor values, but have UNSC use milsim values.

I think the best way to do it is to compare how many more hits it takes to down an Elite versus a Marine. Then look at how many hits it takes to down a Medium/Heavy Marine in OPTRE. Use that as a base then to figure out how many hits an Elite should take. So if it takes twice as many hits in Halo games, an Elite should take twice as many hits in the mod.

[armyguy277 23]

(Using the MA5B 7.62 at point blank)

it take one shot to kill and unarmored

2 shots the kill default arma 3 soliders

5 shots to kill UNSC marines/army

and either 5 or 7 to kill ODST (couldn't tell if i was hitting the gun or not)

so have grunts take 1 or 2 shots to kill jackals 3-4 ,elites 7-10 and and i have no clue how to balance hunters

also the Wraith should defentaly be a tank not artillery but maybe have a secondary motor firing mode ,or maybe just have a artillery and tank variant

[drakedaeron 13]

I also have a bunch of questions...

1. Do you have the voice protocol stuff sorted out, if not are you going to? Will they speak English or their own language?

2. Are you able to change the colour of blood?

3. With the varying heights and shapes of the Covenant are you going to disable access of certain vehicles for certain species, as well as making uniforms and gear exclusive for each species?

4. Are you going to make each species clothable, example are Sangheili going to look like this without their helmet/body armour?

5. Sangheili are going to be 2.5m tall, right?

6. Will you give each species a special HUD?

7. Are you going to make Covenant structures/objects such as supply crates and watch towers? And maybe even giant static CCS-Class Battlecruisers?

8. Are you going to give each species their own unique animations?

1) Just English and French.

2) Eh good question, for the moment I just made weapons, and for Aliens, they come more later.

3) Elite could probably use vehicle of Human, for other species, I don't know for the moment.

4) When I would begin elites - or when I would have found a 3D model already finished and when I would have modified it - will be very probably different models, I am not sure to be capable of separating everything like that, but I am going to reflect about it.

5) No, Elites are going to be the same tall like humans in ArmA 3.

6) For SpecOps and Rangers, probably.

nightovizard => Thanks for your help ! I watch the website, and there are so many 3D model which look very cool.

For invisibility, I don't know if it's a good idea, I plan to increase the armor of elites to be more resistant, but I think that would not be fair to have the invisibility.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Drakedaeron

[somesangheili 111]

1) Just English and French.

2) Eh good question, for the moment I just made weapons, and for Aliens, they come more later.

3) Elite could probably use vehicle of Human, for other species, I don't know for the moment.

4) When I would begin elites - or when I would have found a 3D model already finished and when I would have modified it - will be very probably different models, I am not sure to be capable of separating everything like that, but I am going to reflect about it.

5) No, Elites are going to be the same tall like humans in ArmA 3.

6) For SpecOps and Rangers, probably.

1. Whaa...? French? I was thinking about using voice files from the games...I would prefer ones from Reach, but any will do

4. Found some models on DeviantArt.com, here and here unless you already have it sorted out...

5. Dawww what??? That sux

[nightovizard 20]

1. Whaa...? French? I was thinking about using voice files from the games...I would prefer ones from Reach, but any will do

4. Found some models on DeviantArt.com, here and here unless you already have it sorted out...

5. Dawww what??? That sux

5. That would be wise, it's a shame we can't have things more similar or true to the lore, but in Arma 3 if the elites ar emuch taller than humans you'll se their head outside vehicles and doors and entrances will be too small for them, so they could be slightly taller, but not by much. That is one of the reasons I'm worried about the Hunters, more than infantry they are vehicles lol.

1) Just English and French.

2) Eh good question, for the moment I just made weapons, and for Aliens, they come more later.

3) Elite could probably use vehicle of Human, for other species, I don't know for the moment.

4) When I would begin elites - or when I would have found a 3D model already finished and when I would have modified it - will be very probably different models, I am not sure to be capable of separating everything like that, but I am going to reflect about it.

5) No, Elites are going to be the same tall like humans in ArmA 3.

6) For SpecOps and Rangers, probably.

nightovizard => Thanks for your help ! I watch the website, and there are so many 3D model which look very cool.

For invisibility, I don't know if it's a good idea, I plan to increase the armor of elites to be more resistant, but I think that would not be fair to have the invisibility.

I agree, but elites speaking French... sounds awkward. Maybe this can sound a bit crazy but you could create 'random sounds'', wort wort jeganya etc , look at halo 4 elites speaking. Then subtitles would be in English French etc... Depending what is your language. That should do.

Invisibility would be a feature only to sepc ops units and very limited so people will not overuse it. Im pretty sure we will find a way.

Hope they can provide you those models :) Some people are making a halo game in cryengine and the models are incredible, maybe you could try there too. It is called halo contingency.

Edited April 7, 2015 by nightovizard

[somesangheili 111]

5. That would be wise, it's a shame we can't have things more similar or true to the lore, but in Arma 3 if the elites ar emuch taller than humans you'll se their head outside vehicles and doors and entrances will be too small for them, so they could be slightly taller, but not by much. That is one of the reasons I'm worried about the Hunters, more than infantry they are vehicles lol.

That's why I asked "3. With the varying heights and shapes of the Covenant are you going to disable access of certain vehicles for certain species, as well as making uniforms and gear exclusive for each species?" cuz you know...Sangheili and Lekgolo can't fit into everything!

Also that reminds me when playing Reach, I sometimes wouldn't be able to fit through a crouch size doorway (because it was made with humans in mind). It's just one of the Sangheili weaknesses :(

Edited April 7, 2015 by SomeSangheili

[drakedaeron 13]

"1. Whaa...? French? I was thinking about using voice files from the games...I would prefer ones from Reach, but any will do"

I'm French so I would like to see my langage use ingame by my troops ! :p

"4. Found some models on DeviantArt.com, here and here unless you already have it sorted out..."

I have a big problem, most of the 3D models of Elite are imported from Halo games themselves, I am not sure that I am authorized to implanted of any way these contents, although I find him on platforms dedicated to the game Halo.

And my carbine entered phase detail and last additions, he is going to need then to pass in textures!

[nightovizard 20]

"1. Whaa...? French? I was thinking about using voice files from the games...I would prefer ones from Reach, but any will do"

I'm French so I would like to see my langage use ingame by my troops ! :p

"4. Found some models on DeviantArt.com, here and here unless you already have it sorted out..."

I have a big problem, most of the 3D models of Elite are imported from Halo games themselves, I am not sure that I am authorized to implanted of any way these contents, although I find him on platforms dedicated to the game Halo.

And my carbine entered phase detail and last additions, he is going to need then to pass in textures!

Wow you work quite fast! :D Can't wait to see more screenshots. Do you also texture?

I'm Spanish but I think it would be very strange if elites spoke my language, that's why I suggested random sounds as wort wort wort xD so its like hey spoke their own language. Would work as OPFOR-CSAT, you understand them by reading the subtitles in the left.

and yes unfortunately you can't use assets and stuff extracted from any of the halo games, but luckily there are quite a lot of custom models done by fans. The best looking one atm is:

http://www.project-contingency.net/h5-gallery

Edited April 7, 2015 by nightovizard

[bfgfreak 15]

If I remember correctly, in the original Halo the Elites were basically Sgt. Johnson's voice clips reversed and passed through a filter.

Basically all you'd have to do is take one of the english voices ingame and reverse his voice and boom, instant elite.

[SpaceNavy 16]

Drakedaeron, if you have any questions about how to make something work you can feel free to message me.

The idea of a seperate Covenant mod is interesting as hell. So I'd be willing to help see it become a reality.

[somesangheili 111]

and yes unfortunately you can't use assets and stuff extracted from any of the halo games, but luckily there are quite a lot of custom models done by fans. The best looking one atm is:

http://www.project-contingency.net/h5-gallery

Hmmm this Halo: Contingency thing sounds alright...oh wait...it has Halo 4-looking Sangheili - lame.

I actually posted a link before from the guy who made that Sangheili, I reckon it looks way better (you can see the Contingency version in his gallery)

Edited April 7, 2015 by SomeSangheili

[ltfrankie 1]

If you want to be faithful to how Elites used to talk:

Reverse the dialogue and...speed it up I think. Sgt Johnson saying "go go go" is actually "wort wort wort".

[SpaceNavy 16]

If you want to be faithful to how Elites used to talk:

Reverse the dialogue and...speed it up I think. Sgt Johnson saying "go go go" is actually "wort wort wort".

You might actually be on to something here. Editing the dialogue sound files like this, would be tedious, but worth it in my opinion. Reverse the dialogue, speed it up very slight and lower the pitch.

Or instead, you can make the pitch very low and slower instead. This way would match the way that Elites talked in English in the games:

[Macser 776]

5. Dawww what??? That sux

The main reason you can't have a 2.5 meter tall unit is because it will be configured as a human.

Therefore it will use default animations.The animations and the characters that use them are inextricably linked.The animations rely on the joints of the target mesh being in specific locations.

If they aren't,your mesh will be warped and twisted.

They are only two ways to get a mesh like the elite(or anything non human)into any of the arma series.(or most other games)

1.

You alter the mesh so that it matches the joint locations of a default human character.It means it will

use the default animations with less warping and twisting.But it will severely change the size and proportions.It will end up looking quite different to what you'd expect of an elite.

2.

You create an entirely new set of animations specifically designed for your custom character.This means

no altering of the target mesh.So it retains it's proportions.The downside is the amount of work involved.

Someone will need to sit down and animate each sequence from scratch.I don't think you'd have to replace

every single animation sequence.But it's still not something that would be considered light work.

There's a reason that animation is one of,if not the most avoided aspects of modding.Especially

for a game like this.What ever you do is going to have to be decent.As it's going to running alongside

professionally done mocap.

:)

I'm not pointing these things out to discourage people from trying them.I'd like to see more

people having a go at dynamic animations for full characters.I just think it helps to know

what kind of obstacles are likely to get in the way.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Maczer

[drakedaeron 13]

Drakedaeron, if you have any questions about how to make something work you can feel free to message me.

The idea of a seperate Covenant mod is interesting as hell. So I'd be willing to help see it become a reality.

Oh thank, for the moment, I made weapons, and I hope to deliver a weapon pack in some weeks... Or month . And I have to learn texturing. I create this mod at the same time I learn modelling and modding. And if you can help me on texturing I'm here ! I will propably contact you when I'm going to integrate a weapon ingame.

Thanks everybody for the encouragement ! And if somebody can help me to make Elite that will be very cool ! That a priority for the moment.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Drakedaeron

[corsnake 10]

Maybe make short work and do better work later

i explain use the standard animations with a very WIP elite (or any alien) and later work in a Real Elite.

viewing the difficult of making the aliens im recommend start with the weapons and vehicles.

im only making recommendations im not a modder and dont know anything what is best to do.

[ltfrankie 1]

Didnt TEI/OP:TRE work on an Elite model for an april fools joke?

[nightovizard 20]

People we have to remember he is working alone and he has limits, for now he is doing the weapons, and he is doing a pretty good job at that, so I think he should concentrate in making as many Covenant weapons as possible.

I would dare to say he even could do vehicles, but something as characters is much more complicated than that, he has already stated that that is beyond his limits and he is going to need help from the community. So until someone appears to make something as characters and other stuff that requires a higher skill level, let him work in the weapons, cause he is doing a great job :)

After all, the weapons and vehicles do not require elites and the other covenant species in order to work in Arma 3. So, as that is much more complicated, leave it for the future and lets hope that we can see covenant weapons and vehicles ''soon'' :) In the lore some jackals provided the insurrectionists with covenant stuff too, so maybe we can see some of them in Project Trebuchet.

Hope we can see someone getting elites in arma 3 soon too.

The main reason you can't have a 2.5 meter tall unit is because it will be configured as a human.

Therefore it will use default animations.The animations and the characters that use them are inextricably linked.The animations rely on the joints of the target mesh being in specific locations.

If they aren't,your mesh will be warped and twisted.

They are only two ways to get a mesh like the elite(or anything non human)into any of the arma series.(or most other games)

1.

You alter the mesh so that it matches the joint locations of a default human character.It means it will

use the default animations with less warping and twisting.But it will severely change the size and proportions.It will end up looking quite different to what you'd expect of an elite.

2.

You create an entirely new set of animations specifically designed for your custom character.This means

no altering of the target mesh.So it retains it's proportions.The downside is the amount of work involved.

Someone will need to sit down and animate each sequence from scratch.I don't think you'd have to replace

every single animation sequence.But it's still not something that would be considered light work.

There's a reason that animation is one of,if not the most avoided aspects of modding.Especially

for a game like this.What ever you do is going to have to be decent.As it's going to running alongside

professionally done mocap.

:)

I'm not pointing these things out to discourage people from trying them.I'd like to see more

people having a go at dynamic animations for full characters.I just think it helps to know

what kind of obstacles are likely to get in the way.

Seems 1. is going to be a better option, unless someone is willing to make all the animations from 0 and have a similar quality to the animations from arma 3. But I think 1. could do the job, look at this:

Uses the arma 3 animation as base.

not sure if these elites are fan made or ripped form games, im afraid most likely from H2 but here you have:

http://www.halomods.com/ips/index.php?/topic/255-cmt-elite-playable-biped-beta-2-tagpack/

I think the best references would be from halo reach, I don't like much the changes in Halo 4, and Hlao reach introduces the skirmishers which are awesome jackals.

Jackals/skirmishers (I think that although in the lore they had shields, they shouldn't have in arma, they will most likely be using both hand to hold the weapon, eve if it is a pistol)

http://www.hookedgamers.com/images/1331/halo_reach/screenshot_x360_halo_reach162.jpg

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140205150227/halo/es/images/2/24/Halo-Reach-Covenant-Files-8-5-Skirmisher-Champion.jpg

Elites:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120215111645/7extremepowers/images/6/6f/Major_Elite.png

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/168/a/f/Halo_Reach_Elite_Armor_by_crested217.png

Grunts:

http://rensedeboer.com/grunt.jpg

http://d2z1jzxaddcqt.cloudfront.net/media/Grunts.jpg

Hunters: (They are going to be more like vehicles than infantry, I'm worried because they are very big and can't be transported neither use any vehicles)

http://photos.imageevent.com/afap/wallpapers/videogaming/haloreach/Reach%20Firefight.jpg

http://faqsmedia.ign.com/faqs/image/article/112/1122052/hunter.jpg

Brutes and drones would not be necessary, brutes would require more weapons and vehicles, you have enough work. also drones are quite weak and are flying creatures. so I would stay with the more classic species shown in halo anniversary.

Edited April 8, 2015 by nightovizard

[ltfrankie 1]

If this can be done, I think a true scale Elite can be done. It's just a matter of finding the talent.

[drakedaeron 13]

For Elites, if it's me which model them, they will be probably like Elite from Halo Wars :

http://www.figurerealm.com/Galleries/halowars/CovenantTroopsYellow1-Heroic2.jpg

http://www.figurerealm.com/Galleries/halowars/CovenantTroopsPurple2-Heroic1.jpg

Because for me, it's the "most real" version of the Elite, and that would go marvelously to ArmA 3.

But as nightovizard say it, I have my limits, you know, I try to learn alone the 3D modelling, and I receive advice on a French Forum, I risk to be rather long, I try not to scatter, if I focus on the modelling of an Alien, I am certainly going to meet full of difficulties, and I am going to set of the "delay" on the weapons which are easier to model.

I don't say that I would arrive there, if I focus on the modelling of one Elite, I would arrive there certainly with time, but it's more according to your preferences, I would take so much pleasure to model my favourite characters as Elites, that to model my favorites weapons. As I work alone, say to yourselves that I cannot make quite at the same time.

And thank everybody for your help !

"not sure if these elites are fan made or ripped form games, im afraid most likely from H2 but here you have:

http://www.halomods.com/ips/index.ph...eta-2-tagpack/"

They are extract from Halo 2 files, they just modify them :(

=> I am soon going to post images of the covenant carbine.

[ltfrankie 1]

For Elites, if it's me which model them, they will be probably like Elite from Halo Wars :

http://www.figurerealm.com/Galleries/halowars/CovenantTroopsYellow1-Heroic2.jpg

http://www.figurerealm.com/Galleries/halowars/CovenantTroopsPurple2-Heroic1.jpg

Because for me, it's the "most real" version of the Elite, and that would go marvelously to ArmA 3.

But as nightovizard say it, I have my limits, you know, I try to learn alone the 3D modelling, and I receive advice on a French Forum, I risk to be rather long, I try not to scatter, if I focus on the modelling of an Alien, I am certainly going to meet full of difficulties, and I am going to set of the "delay" on the weapons which are easier to model.

I don't say that I would arrive there, if I focus on the modelling of one Elite, I would arrive there certainly with time, but it's more according to your preferences, I would take so much pleasure to model my favourite characters as Elites, that to model my favorites weapons. As I work alone, say to yourselves that I cannot make quite at the same time.

And thank everybody for your help !

"not sure if these elites are fan made or ripped form games, im afraid most likely from H2 but here you have:

http://www.halomods.com/ips/index.ph...eta-2-tagpack/"

They are extract from Halo 2 files, they just modify them :(

=> I am soon going to post images of the covenant carbine.

I recommend you get a working Covenant weapon done, set up a modDB page and then try to form a team by looking for help and stuff. If you have something functional, people will take you much more seriously.

[nightovizard 20]

If you are aiming to create characters such as elites I would recommend you to either learn how zbrush or scupltris work, or to find someone who knows how those softwares work. It is the best program if you want to create ''organic'' stuff, such as living things, elites in this case.

For vehicles, weapons etc better use 3DS MAX or blender or another software, there are quite a lot of programs. So if you want to really try to make an elite yourself, try :) But in case you not, don't worry, you still have more than enough skills to make the weapons and possibly the vehicles, having a weapon using plasma technology in arma 3 is priceless.

As itfrankiea has said, if you show that you've been working on this, people will take you more seriously and someone will most likely join your cause.

EDITED:

Covenant weapons don't have attachments, the iron sights and scopes are part of the weapon, but not in physical form, they are more like digital.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090511040727/halo/images/4/4f/H2_weaponszoom.jpg

All the covenant weapons could use this type of scope as the normal scope, then for longer distances otpics could be x1 or x4 or x8 or x12 depending the type of weapon. Control + right mouse click would do.

http://hce.halomaps.org/images/files/lg/HUD2.jpg

So this kind of scope but x1 would work as a proper iron sight and reflex sight works. x4 acog scope, x8 an x12 sniper scope etc.

So something like this would work:

Plasma pistol x1

Plasma rifle x1

Storm Rifle x1 and x4

Covenant Carbine x1 and x4

Focus rifle x1 and x4

Needle Rifle x4 and x8

Beam rifle x8 and x12

Concussion rifle x1

Fuel Rod Cannon x2

Plasma launcher x2

The other thing I wanted to talk about is if every species will have all the classes, or every class will only be available to a single species?

For instance: All rifleman would be grunts, marksman and snipers = jackals/skirmishers, team leader = elites, etc...

Or are grunts going to be team leaders too? that would be strange.

When it comes to weapons:

Grunts would only use: Plasma pistol (Rifleman 1, medic, demolitions, crewman), Plasma rifle (Rifleman 2), Fuel rod cannon (AT rifleman)

Elites would only use: Plasma rifle (Crew/pilot , Spec ops, officer), Storm Rifle (Rifleman 3, team leader, squad leader, Spec ops 2), Covenant Carbine (Rifleman 4, engineer, demolitions, medic, spec ops 3), Plasma Launcher (AT/AA specialist), concussion rifle (Grenadier)

Jackals/skirmishers would only use: Focus rifle (Autorifleman, spec ops 4) , Needle Rifle (Marksman, Observer, spec ops 5), Beam rifle (Sniper, Recon, spec ops 6)

summary:

Grunts: Crewman (Driver gunner) , Rifleman 1, Rifleman 2, Medic, Demolitions, AT rifleman.

Elites: Crewman, Pilot, Officer, Team Leader, Squad Leader, Spec Ops 1, Spec Ops 2, Spec Ops 3, Rifleman 3, Rifleman 4, Engineer, Medic, Demolitions, AT/AA Specialist, Grenadier

Jackals/Skirmishers: Autorifleman, Marksman, Observer, Sniper, Recon, Spec Ops 4, Spec Ops 5, Spec Ops 6

Edited April 9, 2015 by nightovizard

[ltfrankie 1]

Grunt Majors would probably be the equivalent of a 'team leader', having 3-4 Grunt Minors below him. Then an Elite Minor or Major would be above him. That's not counting specops and stuff. It's been a while since I last played a halo game though.