oxmox 73 Posted February 26, 2015 Police scandal in Chicago: The lawlesness at Homan Square The police in Chicago has their next scandal: The "Guardian" reported about a building in which persons disappear without a trace, are interrogated and detained illegally - without access to lawyers. The procedure is reminiscent of dictatorships. Chicago - Brian Jacob Church believed that he would never be freed again. In May 2012, the Chicago police arrested him, because he had protested with others against the NATO summit in the city. Instead of a normal police station Church was brought in a former warehouse. The police of Chicago operates in the middle of the city since the late nineties, a facility where detainees are deprived of basic rights. Civil rights groups, lawyers, and once there Arrested are reminded of secret interrogation centers of the US Central Intelligence Agency in the Middle East: Several lawyers tell them whether the access temporarily or permanently even been denied. Church says he's been 17 hours chained tied up in a windowless room and been interviewed, without even being informed him of his right to remain silent or a phone equipped with his lawyer. Detainees were allegedly physically assaulted and put under pressure. In February 2013, a detained 44 years old man died at the facility. As alleged killer heroin use is specified. Eyewitnesses detainees were imprisoned in cages of wire mesh fence. In addition, there is a substantial fleet of vehicles which the military had left to the police. Lawyers and family members of the victims report, if someone is at Homan Square, you have no chance to learn it in a legal way. "They just disappear until they are at a police station officially accused or simply released", a criminal defense lawyer told the "Guardian". Normally arrests over a public database could be found. The newspaper quoted a different lawyer, there is an open secret among defending lawyers: "If you can not find a client in the system, chances are good that he's there." SPIEGEL Report google transl. GUARDIAN Report Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 26, 2015 Police in the US are totally getting out of control. Citizen freedoms don´t mean anything to them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFR-cUgnDJQ Something like that would be unimaginable in other countries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisb 196 Posted February 26, 2015 Unfortunately its only going to get worse for the citizens of the US. But it won't stop there of course, its happening all over the world. Its pretty uncertain times for all of us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JdB 151 Posted February 26, 2015 Police in the US are totally getting out of control. Citizen freedoms don´t mean anything to them.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFR-cUgnDJQ Something like that would be unimaginable in other countries. Not really, he seems drunk and uncooperative. People that are drunk, drugged, sleep deprived, barely conscious and other states where they can't focus properly it sometimes helps to assert a limited amount of pain to (temporarily) get them back to reality. The main problem here is that for a good 100+ years we haven't been used to actual violence and street brawls are talked about in the (social) media like it was a medieval battle rather than the few ineffective punches/kicks that it really amounted to. The same thing happens here. The guy isn't paying attention so he gets slapped which according to the people yelling in the background is somehow seen as the modern day equivalent to being bayonetted (those people clearly aren't used to actual violence). There's a rock solid belief among the liberals and the political left that everything can be solved by endlessly talking to people that aren't capable of comprehending what is going on. Just shows their disconnection from what the job of law enforcement and other first responders is really like. If you listen to what the officer is saying and act accordingly you likely won't get slapped (in the case of the US: when you're black that might not apply). The world can be so simple when you aren't looking for a conspiracy behind every tree. It has nothing to do with a police state, but with the average citizen being higher educated, more vocal/independent and thinking that they need to voice their opinion at every possible moment than people were a hundred years ago. The violence used by the police has softened considerably since than but the respect for the officers and the way they are treated by the public has also gone down a lot. My dad told me plenty of stories about when he was young and the police would hit people with their clubs a few times at the slightest hint of committing even the slightest offense before even thinking about arresting them. That was the same time when teachers would whack students on the fingers a ruler when they couldn't be bothered to pay attention. They sure as hell respected those officers (and teachers) more than the softies that walk the streets today bound by endless protocols and legal departments breathing down their necks and the amount of complaints were negligible. People expect officers to keep talking no matter how they are confronted because that is what society expects from a human being, to be non-violent at all times. Today people are being prosecuted simply because they punch someone (often just once) that is asking for it through their behaviour. The public perception of what constitutes actual violence has gone completely over the top leading to overloaded legal systems and wasted funds. Today many people think like we can do it all when we want to and there is nothing to stop us. Think again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 26, 2015 Not really, he seems drunk and uncooperative. People that are drunk, drugged, sleep deprived, barely conscious and other states where they can't focus properly it sometimes helps to assert a limited amount of pain to (temporarily) get them back to reality. The main problem here is that for a good 100+ years we haven't been used to actual violence and street brawls are talked about in the (social) media like it was a medieval battle rather than the few ineffective punches/kicks that it really amounted to. The same thing happens here. The guy isn't paying attention so he gets slapped which according to the people yelling in the background is somehow seen as the modern day equivalent to being bayonetted (those people clearly aren't used to actual violence). There's a rock solid belief among the liberals and the political left that everything can be solved by endlessly talking to people that aren't capable of comprehending what is going on. Just shows their disconnection from what the job of law enforcement and other first responders is really like.If you listen to what the officer is saying and act accordingly you likely won't get slapped (in the case of the US: when you're black that might not apply). The world can be so simple when you aren't looking for a conspiracy behind every tree. It has nothing to do with a police state, but with the average citizen being higher educated, more vocal/independent and thinking that they need to voice their opinion at every possible moment than people were a hundred years ago. The violence used by the police has softened considerably since than but the respect for the officers and the way they are treated by the public has also gone down a lot. My dad told me plenty of stories about when he was young and the police would hit people with their clubs a few times at the slightest hint of committing even the slightest offense before even thinking about arresting them. That was the same time when teachers would whack students on the fingers a ruler when they couldn't be bothered to pay attention. They sure as hell respected those officers (and teachers) more than the softies that walk the streets today bound by endless protocols and legal departments breathing down their necks and the amount of complaints were negligible. People expect officers to keep talking no matter how they are confronted because that is what society expects from a human being, to be non-violent at all times. Today people are being prosecuted simply because they punch someone (often just once) that is asking for it through their behaviour. The public perception of what constitutes actual violence has gone completely over the top leading to overloaded legal systems and wasted funds. Today many people think like we can do it all when we want to and there is nothing to stop us. Think again. That justification is beyond stupid..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badluckburt 78 Posted February 26, 2015 They sure as hell respected those officers (and teachers) more You're confusing fear with respect if you think hurting someone will gain you their 'respect'. The only time that works is when people try to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p51PGX-PrqQ And I didn't see that guy in Tonci's video act like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicholas 5 Posted February 26, 2015 If the man would have simply cooperated with the officer, nothing would have happened. Although, the push/slap was unnecessary. But of course you only see videos of police officers doing bad things. No one will film an honest police officer doing good things. I'll bet there are more good officers than bad, but like I said, no one will film an honest officer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IndeedPete 1038 Posted February 26, 2015 Is no-one here going to discuss about the orginal articles saying that an official authority is torturing and illegally incarcerating the citizens of a so-called free western country? It's not about individuals within a police force who are mentally still in the army and can't control themselves, it's about organised violence against citizens by their own authorities. I mean - no offense - I'm not surprised hearing about such things from the US. Some of their government agencies and parts of the military are bascially just well-funded terror organisations. Still, horrible to hear. I can only hope US citizens will stand up at some point against this practice. Not like we Europeans are in a much better situation though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krzychuzokecia 719 Posted February 26, 2015 People that are drunk, drugged, sleep deprived, barely conscious and other states where they can't focus properly it sometimes helps to assert a limited amount of pain to (temporarily) get them back to reality. Uh, oh. Actually the very opposite. If you'd do something like that to a sleeping person you'd wake her, but it doesn't work in emergency situations. When someone has lost conscious (or seems to have) you can't slap that person because she won't regain consciousness but just freak out. Sub-consciously. In such case the heart rate sky-rockets (as for any normal, but frightened, person) which may lead to death. That's what they tell you at first-aid and CPR classes. I'm not surprised hearing about such things from the US. Nor am I. Heck, USA is the country which patented shoot first, ask questions later method of interrogations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 26, 2015 You're confusing fear with respect if you think hurting someone will gain you their 'respect'. The only time that works is when people try to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p51PGX-PrqQ And I didn't see that guy in Tonci's video act like that. It doesn´t even work in your example. That guy (who obviously was beeing a dick) didn´t gain respect for the officer, later he was afraid of them. He was beaten by other people and called the police to protect him. They take forever to get there and when he complains about it he gets beaten up and cuffed by them. If a german police officer did that stuff you could have charged him with assault and use of excessive force. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badluckburt 78 Posted February 26, 2015 They take forever to get there and when he complains about it he gets beaten up and cuffed by them. He had every right to complain but getting that close to the cop with his US Army mantra is what earned him the treatment he got, not his complaints. He didn't seem to be in any immediate danger to me when they arrived, a little patience and self-restraint never hurt anyone. If that guy actually picked up any discipline in the Army, he would've known better than to behave like that to someone who's in law enforcement and actually there to help you. And just in general, how on earth does it help you to get in the face of the person trying to help you, can you explain that to me? But anyway, to answer IndeedPete, I did read the OP and it makes me sick to my stomach even if I don't live there and I hope the people responsible get what's coming to them but that hardly ever happens :( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 26, 2015 He had every right to complain but getting that close to the cop with his US Army mantra is what earned him the treatment he got, not his complaints. He didn't seem to be in any immediate danger to me when they arrived, a little patience and self-restraint never hurt anyone. If that guy actually picked up any discipline in the Army, he would've known better than to behave like that to someone who's in law enforcement and actually there to help you. And just in general, how on earth does it help you to get in the face of the person trying to help you, can you explain that to me? But anyway, to answer IndeedPete, I did read the OP and it makes me sick to my stomach even if I don't live there and I hope the people responsible get what's coming to them but that hardly ever happens :( That is not the point, as a law enforcement officer and representative of the state, self control should be his very first virtue. He didn´t even give that guy a proper warning before he threw him to the ground and started his "I´m a marine you better watch your mouth BS" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badluckburt 78 Posted February 26, 2015 That is not the point, as a law enforcement officer and representative of the state, self control should be his very first virtue. He didn´t even give that guy a proper warning before he threw him to the ground and started his "I´m a marine you better watch your mouth BS" We clearly differ in our opinions on that matter :) When somebody's that close to you, in your face and yelling, they've crossed a certain line, at least for me. A warning would have fallen on deaf ears with that kid, I don't think that's very hard to see. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted February 26, 2015 We clearly differ in our opinions on that matter :) When somebody's that close to you, in your face and yelling, they've crossed a certain line, at least for me.A warning would have fallen on deaf ears with that kid, I don't think that's very hard to see. It is his duty to try. As a police officer you have very special responsibilities. Assaulting someone who is not armed and has not commited any crime so far is not among them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
badluckburt 78 Posted February 26, 2015 Well, I can't argue with that and I have to say I am glad that most cops don't act like that one or the ones from the OP for that matter :/ I won't deny that the one from my clip could've handled things more elegantly but he clearly wasn't that kind of guy. I can write a whole reasoning behind it but in the end that won't change your mind since I get your angle. Let's just hope OP's story doesn't become too common and that they do what they're actually meant to do, protect and serve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisb 196 Posted February 27, 2015 Some more regards this topic: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/26/police-black-site-chicago-washington-politicians-human-rights Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
