Is there anything unique to bear in mind about making fences/walls?

[meshcarver 12]

Hi guys,

I'm going to start doing sections of walls and fences soon, but apart from the height for vault animations/walk overs (Is there a guide to these heights and what they are too?) are there any other factors that need to be taken into account when creating these pieces?

How for instance, if you want a lowish stone wall, would you model the LODs if you would like it to stop players from walking through it, whilst if you pushed it down into the terrain a little, then they are allowed to walk over it?

Thanks

[m1lkm8n 411]

If you want to do that make a small roadway Lod at the top of the mod. This way when is sunk down you can walk over it and when it's up higher you can't

[animander 10]

If you want it to prevent players from walking through it, it just needs a functioning geometry LOD. If the fence is low enough to vault over, then as long as the geometry LOD matches the RESLOD for the fence, it will also be low enough to vault over. What that actual height is, I don't know. It will probably require you just testing different heights in game until you see what works.

If you want a really low stone wall that people can just walk over without having to vault, give it a roadway LOD on the parts that you want people to be able to walk on. Any surface of an object that players can walk on needs a roadway LOD for that to work. If a surface doesn't have a roadway LOD but it still "looks" like you should be able to walk on it, you still won't be able to.

If you want a fence that stops players walking through, but not bullets being shot through(chain link fence for example) then give it a normal geometry LOD and an empty fire geometry LOD. Note that you still need to give it a fire geometry LOD, but just leave it empty. If you don't give it one at all, it will use the geometry LOD(or the view geometry LOD if you have one)as a fire geometry LOD and still block bullets.

The important thing to remember is that the RESLODS are only what you see in game, but not what you're actually interacting with. You're actually interacting with the other invisible LODS(geometry, roadway etc) to determine collision, surfaces you can walk on, bullet hit detection etc..

Also, in the geometry LOD you'll want to give fences a property with name map and value fence, and another with name damage and value fence. The first one gives it a map icon for a fence on the in-game map, and the second one gives it the appropriate damage behavior when it gets damaged (like falling over when rammed by a vehicle, etc).

Hope this helps.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Animander

[m1lkm8n 411]

Leaving the firelod empty for bullets to pass through is not very ideal. I would create a firelod and give it whatever property the fence is going to be made out of. So for a wood fence give it a wood rvmat and make the firelod components thin. This way when a bullet strikes the fence it will get a wood splintering effect and the round will more then likely penetrated anything on the other side.

If you leave the firelod empty you won't get any bullet penetration effect or if you just rely on the geo Lod with no penetration rvmats you'll get the default dirt effect

[animander 10]

That's true, but for the example of a chain link fence, there wouldn't be any sort of bullet splintering effect, so an empty fire geometry would be sufficient.

[m1lkm8n 411]

That's true, but for the example of a chain link fence, there wouldn't be any sort of bullet splintering effect, so an empty fire geometry would be sufficient.

Sure. But there would more then likely be some sort of metal impact. So he could use a metal rvmat. And if the component in that Lod is thin enough the bullet will still pass through some likely ending in a impact on the other side.

[x3kj 1247]

The fire geometry detail isn't suited to 1mm thin parts. It was designed for vehicle armor and there it works well. According to the devs... Therefore i would leave it empty. Especially since 98% of a chain link fence's surface is air

[m1lkm8n 411]

Works fine for me. I like detail. But it's not my model so you can do as you wish

[nevbox 15]

I would choose the smallest impact effect and have it 'very likely' to pass through for a chain link fence, you can do wonders with an rvmat.

[meshcarver 12]

Hi guys,

damn, so much info- thanks..!

I'm ok as far as the FIRElod info goes, I know that,but it was more about heights/player walk overs/jutting lengths of fences up against each other to make make longer sections of fencing etc- is there anything to bear in mind about modelling them when it comes to that?

I mean, obviously I'll have to model the "end" piece of say a solid brick wall/fence, but do I then just butt up another of the same model right up against it to make a longer fence? Do you see what I mean.? And, in this case could the player become stuck/glitched on the "joining"" part?

These are the kind of questions I'd love to hear answers to.

While I'm on it too- how about rocks? If I would like to be able to model rocks that can be placed/sunk at ANY rotation, wouldn't they need a ROADWAYlod all over them? If so, how does that work?

Edited January 12, 2015 by meshcarver

[animander 10]

You can stack fence pieces end-to-end as much as you like, there's no issues with them clipping into each other a little bit, but if they clip a whole lot then there will probably be some graphical flickering. As for players getting stuck, as long as the geolod's match up and everything is matched end to end well, there should be no problem. As for the rock, if you want people to be able to walk over any part of it, the roadway lod can be just be a copy of the rock mesh(or a simplified one if it's really detailed).

[das attorney 858]

There's a good post here for you to check out MC - it's quite old but still applies I think:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?67460-bisurf-file&p=1175497&viewfull=1#post1175497

[meshcarver 12]

Thanks for the help guys- much appreciated. :)

[m1lkm8n 411]

There's a good post here for you to check out MC - it's quite old but still applies I think:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?67460-bisurf-file&p=1175497&viewfull=1#post1175497

nice find there..the thing I find maybe a little off is that it really depends on what penetration rvmat you apply and the thickness of the component you apply it too because ive experimented with some and made the components thin enough that the round does interact with the component but at the same time still passes through and will strike the target on the other side

[bumgie 49]

What about the AI firing through it, does that happen with a thin sheet?

[m1lkm8n 411]

What about the AI firing through it, does that happen with a thin sheet?

I cant really say as I haven't really tested that..but I wouldn't see why the rounds fired from an AI wouldn't go through but from a player would

[x3kj 1247]

What about the AI firing through it, does that happen with a thin sheet?

The AI only checks for vision afaik, which is defined by ViewGeometry. So it will fire because it can see.

nice find there..the thing I find maybe a little off is that it really depends on what penetration rvmat you apply and the thickness of the component you apply it too because ive experimented with some and made the components thin enough that the round does interact with the component but at the same time still passes through and will strike the target on the other side

If you just want to see sparks/ have sound impact, but no bullet stopping, it would be better to make the firegeometry component thicker then the fence would be, maybe 1cm thick. Then you apply a custom plate material that has a defined thickness to it (it disregards the actual model's thickness) with low thickness, and only weak material properties. That way you can still have impact effects but the bullet performance isnt really affected.

The extremely thin components could lead to problems, as it the system was only designed for thicker objects (10mm+). Also, it may depend on simulation speed (frames) and so on. So it could become glitchy.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Fennek

[meshcarver 12]

Wait a minute..?

Does it matter how THICK you physically make the FIRElod components? I thought it didn't matter- just what Penetration Material you applied to them?

[lappihuan 178]

There are two types of penetration materials...

<material>_plate.rvmat have defined thickness designed to be used on vehicles. (example: steel_plate.rvmat)

<material>.rvmat will use the thickness of the model together with the penetrability of the defined material to simulate the penetration. I think those are designed to be used on strucktures. (example: steel.rvmat)

[meshcarver 12]

Right... Damn... another whole new world of issues to bear in mind just opened up on me I think... Damn. I did not know this.

Are there ANY other things like this please? A place where keen modders would like to find absolutely relevant info?

The wiki is terrible, there is no contents as far as I can tell- you have to know what you're looking for in the first place is that right?

But thanks for the heads up Lappihuan..!

[x3kj 1247]

<material>_plate.rvmat have defined thickness designed to be used on vehicles. (example: steel_plate.rvmat)

<material>.rvmat will use the thickness of the model together with the penetrability of the defined material to simulate the penetration. I think those are designed to be used on strucktures. (example: steel.rvmat)

No that's wrong. You can use both for everything. It's just 2 methods that you have available. plate material is best used for stuff that is too thin to model with true thickness, or a in case of a too high fidelity of the object - to save performance and making creation of the fire geometry simple [everything as convex can be difficult at times].

For example a cannon barrel is not really thick, but modelling the actual thickness of the tube would take more geometry components and time, plus it would be very thin which could cause problems, because the penetration system only works good for larger sizes (10mm and upwards is ok from what i've been told) Therefore you just define a cylinder with a "5mm metal" property for example.

Or on tires... you wouldnt want to have a big solid rubber cylinder...

Edited February 4, 2015 by Fennek