Russia General

[mistyronin 1181]

I have written in simple English, it is not clear?

attitude to the Orthodox Slavs, and in particular the Serbs in Russia as "our guys"

What do you mean by "our guys"? And in what part of Russia do you mean?

None of the Russians that I know consider Serbs as friends, in fact they mistrust and dislike them (my Russian friends are from Kaliningrad, Saint Petersbourg and Irkutsk).

[d_lukin 16]

What do you mean by "our guys"? And in what part of Russia do you mean?

None of the Russians that I know consider Serbs as friends, in fact they mistrust and dislike them (my Russian friends are from Kaliningrad, Saint Petersbourg and Irkutsk).

I do not know how to translate from English to English..

Our guys means a very friendly relationship..

I think that everywhere.

Your friends has to be liberals?)

===============

I forgot to say about the independent media

[mistyronin 1181]

I do not know how to translate from English to English..

Our guys means a very friendly relationship..

I think that everywhere.

Your friends has to be liberals?)

"Our guys" can be a really broad term in English.

Not really, I have Russian friends of all kinds (which I'm glad), some quite hard-liners pro-Putin that dislike Serbs a lot. That's why I find your statement interesting.

I don't really get your point with Serbs living in Russia as not being immigrants. Probably you mean that they are seen as "good immigrants" in comparison with other immigrants?

I forgot to say about the independent media

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/85851402/jpg/14280377389140.jpg

So your point is that some Media companies have some good contacts inside the Obama administration? If it's that, then I agree. But I fail to see why would that make the media less independent? :confused:

[Degman 73]

An immigrant is a person which used to live in one country and then he moved into another one. It is connected to the territory, not nationality, origins, etc.

[d_lukin 16]

"Our guys" can be a really broad term in English.

Not really, I have Russian friends of all kinds (which I'm glad), some quite hard-liners pro-Putin that dislike Serbs a lot. That's why I find your statement interesting.

In my environment there is no such.

I don't really get your point with Serbs living in Russia as not being immigrants. Probably you mean that they are seen as "good immigrants" in comparison with other immigrants?

Well, yes it is

So your point is that some Media companies have some good contacts inside the Obama administration? If it's that, then I agree. But I fail to see why would that make the media less independent? :confused:

Major independent media is great idea, but not in this reality.

[ProfTournesol 956]

It's very obvious that the so called "Western press" (which makes no sense to me, the French press is very different from UK one etc.) is much much more independant from the power than state controlled medias in Russia, there is no matter of discussion here. Of course they are owned by shareholders, which may (or may not) influence their journalists, but not on the scale of Russian state medias. Independent journalists are even a target of Putin's power, some of them paid that price of their life.

[oxmox 73]

I would not compare it to Russia with state owned media, but the "western press" is definately influenced....

You have also to remember that only some corporations own most of the media.

Media manipulation

I remember on an older (2004) and really excellent documentary about the Israeli conflict & Media coverage at the end of the 2nd Intifada.

In this documentary academics from Universities, Journalists from the US and Israel, are reporting about how lobbies, institutions and other groups are influencing the US media coverage.

This case is only about Israel and the conflict with the palestinians, the interview partners and filmmakers are often jewish itself.

The manipulation of the media is described as "filters" in this documentary i.e. political elites, owner of media companies, US PR firms, Consulates, Private American Organisations (lobbies), and so on.....

Here we go:

US Media & the Israel-Palestinian Conflict

Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land (watch 12:25 and the following minutes for example)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace,_Propaganda_%26_the_Promised_Land

Edited July 19, 2015 by oxmox

[vilas 477]

both mainstream press lies, in both sides,

one side is government-owned, other side is corporations-lobby owned,

no idea which one is worse, cause corporations work for profits even above country level, so they can even destroy whole country to bring profits to small group of their management,

so also western press has biased informations, in case of my country many mainstream medias are owned by few German companies such as Axel Springer , so any informations which are against German banks/corporations would not be shown, "chosen by god nation" lobby also is very strong in here, mostly cause many of them are grandsons/sons of commie intel officers from 40s/50s,

[vilas 477]

http://img.wiocha.pl/images/5/4/546e8ea50b946fe9901b4ad34dd97f2b.jpg

Russia - parliament works on law that changes corruption /fraud of state-money to life sentence for state officials,

other sources say about 15 years in prison for corruption, bravo, such law we need , only problem is that as far as i know life - there will be sentenced only low ranked clerk, while high ranked clerk will not get sentence

[mistyronin 1181]

Tho I agree that anti-corruption laws are good and are needed, in this case it seems it's more an anti-opposition law (accusing your opponents, rightly or not, of corruption and jail them for life).

(The Guardian, 2010) WikiLeaks cables condemn Russia as 'mafia state'

Kremlin relies on criminals and rewards them with political patronage, while top officials collect bribes 'like a personal taxation system'

Russia is a corrupt, autocratic kleptocracy centred on the leadership of Vladimir Putin, in which officials, oligarchs and organised crime are bound together to create a "virtual mafia state", according to leaked secret diplomatic cables that provide a damning American assessment of its erstwhile rival superpower.

Arms trafficking, money laundering, personal enrichment, protection for gangsters, extortion and kickbacks, suitcases full of money and secret offshore bank accounts in Cyprus: the cables paint a bleak picture of a political system in which bribery alone totals an estimated $300bn a year, and in which it is often hard to distinguish between the activities of the government and organised crime.

(The Independent) Fifa corruption: Putin says Russia should not be investigated over World Cup

(IB Times) Fifa arrests: Russia 2018 and Qatar 2022 World Cups probed for corruption and money laundering

(TIME) FIFA Compliance Head Says Russia, Qatar World Cups Could Be Taken Away

---------- Post added at 10:11 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ----------

(Russia Insider) Poverty Rate in Russia Jumps to 16%

Percentage-wise, that means 15.9 percent of Russians are now living below the poverty line, compared to 13.8 percent in quarter one of 2014. Rosstat’s information excludes data from the Crimea and Sevastopol, Interfax reported.

he forecasts don’t look good. According to the World Bank’s baseline forecast, Russia’s poverty rate will increase to 14.2 percent (20.3 million people) in 2015 as a whole.

“This will be the first substantial increase in poverty since 1998-1999. The poverty rate did not increase in 2008-2009 due to significant growth in disposable income,†a World Bank official told Interfax.

At the same time:

(Russia Insider) Russia to Launch Its Own 'National Guard'

Last year Russia spent an estimated 3.247 trillion rubles (£42.6 billion) - equivalent to 4.5 per cent of GDP - on defence, according to the SIPRI, a Swedish think tank. That’s up from 3.6 per cent of GDP since Mr Putin came to power in 2000.

That SIPRI estimate is higher than Russia’s officially published 2014 defence budget of 2.49 trillion rubles - which still makes it the third largest spender in the world behind the United States and China.

[mistyronin 1181]

(On Islam) Moscow Becoming Europe's Largest Muslim City

Muslims form the fastest growing and most ethnically diverse sector of Moscow's population.

With an official population of 12.5 million, Russia's capital is now home to at least 1.5 million Muslims, according to political analyst Alexei Malashenko.

"Moscow is slowly adapting to being Europe's largest Muslim city, and Muslims are gradually adapting to it," Malashenko told Al Jazeera.

The presence of Muslims in Moscow prompted large number of reverts to Islam among ethnic Russians.

"I hear many compliments about how I am dressed and how beautiful it looks," Anastasiya Korchagina, who changed her first name to Aisha after reverting to Islam five years ago said.

(Al Jazeera) Despite animosity, Moscow's Muslims change the city

(Russia & India Report) Thousands of Moscow Muslims celebrate end of Ramadan

Some 160,000 Moscow Muslims have celebrated Eid al-Fitr, marking the end of the month-long fast of Ramadan, a police spokesman said on Friday.

About 4,000 police officers were deployed in the capital for an event known in Russia as Uraza Bairam.

Alongside 18 mosques and prayer houses, 17 sites were organized in Moscow and neighboring towns for the faithful to hold mass prayers, Rushan Abbyasov, Moscow region Mufti, told TASS.

[John Kozak 14]

Speaking of vilas's favorite topic, the oligarchs: a January analysis based on Credit Suisse numbers

If you want to find a country ruled by corrupted oligarchs, that's not Ukraine.

The article asks:

The question is, what happens if recession does hit?

Now we know the answer: we find more fascists in neighboring countries.

Edited July 22, 2015 by DarkWanderer

[vilas 477]

i know Russia is more rich than Ukraine, but stats say that 19% of wealth in Russia is owned by oligarchs, but i know stats saying that 80% of all property is owned by sevaral families of oligarchs of Ukraine,

so in Putin's Russia it is 19% vs 80% in Ukraine ;) maybe 10% is Putin himself

level of inequality in Ukraine is probably bigger than in Russia but Russia has better social care (compare child birth support, you have even few times bigger than in my country)

lots of adonmakers/players i know from Russian community have their own car , earn like 500 Euro

i know Ukrainian players which dreamt about internet camera for 20 USD and new boots (playing Arma i met such people)

poverty in Ukraine is bigger than in Russian european part , living standards (PC, car, flat, furniture, hi fi, boots, clothes, availability of food and medical treatment) is better in Russia anyway , also confirmed by my family from Belarus (ex Polish territory)

i do not belive those stats, why ?

Poland is too clean, we are not that good in corruption, we are much worse ;)

Ukraine has no place in those stats (current political situation )?

question - do i read false stats, or those are biased,

cause i read that 80% of property industry in Ukraine belongs to dozens of oligarchs families

Edited July 22, 2015 by vilas

[John Kozak 14]

i know Russia is more rich than Ukraine, but stats say that 19% of wealth in Russia is owned by oligarchs, but i know stats saying that 80% of all property is owned by sevaral families of oligarchs of Ukraine,

so in Putin's Russia it is 19% vs 80% in Ukraine ;) maybe 10% is Putin himself

level of inequality in Ukraine is probably bigger than in Russia but Russia has better social care (compare child birth support, you have even few times bigger than in my country)

lots of adonmakers/players i know from Russian community have their own car , earn like 500 Euro

i know Ukrainian players which dreamt about internet camera for 20 USD and new boots (playing Arma i met such people)

poverty in Ukraine is bigger than in Russian european part , living standards (PC, car, flat, furniture, hi fi, boots, clothes, availability of food and medical treatment) is better in Russia anyway , also confirmed by my family from Belarus (ex Polish territory)

i do not belive those stats, why ?

Poland is too clean, we are not that good in corruption, we are much worse ;)

Ukraine has no place in those stats (current political situation )?

question - do i read false stats, or those are biased,

cause i read that 80% of property industry in Ukraine belongs to dozens of oligarchs families

Sorry, but I believe Credit Suisse more than word of mouth.

Objective data says inequality situation in Russia is much much worse than in Ukraine. I do understand you might have read that somewhere, but after all, it's internet - you may find "proofs" that Earth is flat here

Edited July 22, 2015 by DarkWanderer

[vilas 477]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_oligarchs

wiki says 85% GDP

http://www.tvn24.pl/wiadomosci-ze-swiata,2/100-oligarchow-i-rodzina-ma-80-proc-majatku-ukrainy-czy-zabiora-im-fortuny,402228.html

80% proporty was said by Polish mainstream journalists , not right wing, but mainstream

[Tonci87 163]

The same journalists that say the Ruhr area is full of Muslim no go zones?

[vilas 477]

http://x0.cdn02.imgwykop.pl/c0834752/01vQhuB_4FmaCCDFRGtiA0fRxDnfaqSrOg95ZCGC.jpg

http://naszgarbow.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/niemieckie-polskie-media.jpeg

yes, German media

Axel Springer or Markus Telenbach or before Orange (French)

all mainstream media in my country belong to German corporations, like banks/supermakets are not Polish, only ours media are "far right" which i do not quoted about Ukraine,

rest is mostly Axel Springer like current rulling party are guys who took cash in shopping bags from CSU (German CSU) in 1990

so if anyone misinforms - than German corporations

Edited July 22, 2015 by vilas

[oxmox 73]

http://x0.cdn02.imgwykop.pl/c0834752/01vQhuB_4FmaCCDFRGtiA0fRxDnfaqSrOg95ZCGC.jpg

http://naszgarbow.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/niemieckie-polskie-media.jpeg

yes, German media

Axel Springer or Markus Telenbach or before Orange (French)

all mainstream media in my country belong to German corporations, like banks/supermakets are not Polish, only ours media are "far right" which i do not quoted about Ukraine,

rest is mostly Axel Springer like current rulling party are guys who took cash in shopping bags from CSU (German CSU) in 1990

so if anyone misinforms - than German corporations

Which media belongs to Axel Springer in Poland, I cant imagine that all mainstream media in Poland belongs to german corporations ?

And when it comes to Axel Springer, their listed principles and journalistic guidelines are tied to the transatlantic alliance.

Edited July 22, 2015 by oxmox

[vilas 477]

, I cant imagine that all mainstream media in Poland belongs to german corporation

why do you think i hate commies altough i was socialist ? ;)

small history lesson:

despite historical "1989" as communism fall it was different

first Polish parliament elected after "fall" of communism was "contract" , commies guaranted themselves 65% seats and only 35% seats could be VOTED

this parliament lasted till 1991, when there FIRST free elections in which you could vote for 100% of seats,

in first parliament (till June 1991) you could vote only 35% votes (161 seats), cause 65% had commies (299 seats) total Sejm seats is 460

but almost ALL privatizations were in early 90, 91,

so back than commies sold almost all , till first "far right" wing government tried to stop it in 1992 (and soon this government was ousted by Walesa which later was told to be secret commie intel cooperator nicknamed "Bolek" by opposition)

yes, it is possible, a lot of things in my country were sold by commies, banks, manufactures, power plants, many things,

so called freedom is dated on 1989 because it was first election here after WW2, but small note "it meant only 35% seats in Parliament - Sejm", Lech Walesa was indeed president of Poland since 1990, but Poland is parliament republic, not presidential republic, so president is in fact notary or parliament + formal head of armed forces (rather like British Queen)

first 100% elected parliament is dated on 27 october 1991

anything sold before 1992, is in fact sold by commies, not by "former opposition" , things sold after 1992 we can call "sold not by commies only"

so commies took real power (in economy) till 1992 here, not till 1989 as "it would appear", because previous "solidarity" government from 1990-1991 was formally solidarity, but parliament voting acts was made from commies, so Solidarity was FORMALLY government of Poland, but not in full power, because commies had more seats in parliament, and all clerks in ministry of economy/treasure were commies and they were selling all knowing their power falls down, they were preparing themselves to live from stolen money on foreign bank accounts,

than there was almost whole privatisation process + "popiwek" tax, it was tax made to put down profit-bringing national corporations, to put them into created artificial debt ,

popiwek was tax bigger than 100% (it was 200%) for companies who were raising salary , yes, we had such tax in year 1990 and it killed a lot of our industry and soon this industry was sold abroad for penny,

indeed back then in early 90s also foreign corporations were tax-extempted which led to mass of Polish industry bankrupcy, than western companies were buying all cheap cause our businees had to pay taxes, while foreign not

there is old proverb "captain should drown with his ship"

commies believe that "ship should drown when captain is dying"

Edited July 22, 2015 by vilas

[oxmox 73]

And what about your listings of Axel Springer media in Poland and other media by german corporations ?

Well, I did look for myself: Ringier Axel Springer Polska

ts portfolio of publications includes Fakt, the best-selling newspaper in Poland, two sports dailies (the nationwide PrzeglÄ…d Sportowy and the regional Sport), as well as the weekly Newsweek Polska and the business monthly Forbes magazine. It also publishes computer magazines (including Komputer Åšwiat) and car magazines (including Auto Åšwiat and Top Gear). In addition, the company offers over 20 internet services, including informational portals as well as sports, lifestyle, auto, computer and e-commerce services. Many of the titles are accessible via modern portable devices such as tablets and smartphones, many are also available as audio versions.

So one daily mainstream newspaper by Axel Springer in Poland and others are "far right" ? :confused:

http://www.ringieraxelspringer.pl/en/company

[Tonci87 163]

In short, the media you like to quote vilas is really untrustworthy. They are way to sensationalist and not afraid to make things up. That is Bild, or Sun standard.

[vilas 477]

So one daily mainstream newspaper by Axel Springer in Poland and all others are "far right" ?

there are indpendendent media which are also far-left (economically, not LGTB, gender, but ultra-anticapitalistic),

there is not much non-mainstream media not owned by few German corporations,

but most of those not-owned can be called "bigots" according to western standards,

last time one of mainstream TV stations was bough from German corporation by US corporation,

main mainstream internet websites (i do not watch TV at all, i do not have TV set cause TV is rather soap opera, celebrity dancing show to stupify people or government propaganda) are:

wp.pl (belonged to French Orange till 2013, than sold to formally Polish company but main share holder is Spanish bank Santander), onet.pl (Axel Springer), Interia.pl (German Bauer), and they mostly kept and funded to shape voters to be "not far right" ;)

In short, the media you like to quote vilas is really untrustworthy. They are way to sensationalist and not afraid to make things up. That is Bild, or Sun standard.

so other media i can quote are far-right Christian (of course according to western standards which differ from our standard of what is bigotery) ;)

That is Bild, or Sun standard.

and the same guys do Newsweek Polish edition which is in fact leftist tube telling people that being cheap labor is our goal in life

Edited July 22, 2015 by vilas

[John Kozak 14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_oligarchs

wiki says 85% GDP

http://www.tvn24.pl/wiadomosci-ze-swiata,2/100-oligarchow-i-rodzina-ma-80-proc-majatku-ukrainy-czy-zabiora-im-fortuny,402228.html

80% proporty was said by Polish mainstream journalists , not right wing, but mainstream

Well, I guess not only Russia has biased government media.

And this wiki article is precisely the reason why sometimes you should not trust Wikipedia.

The***Ukrainian Thieves***are a group of thieves that quickly appeared on the economic and political scene of***Ukraine

It has "hate propaganda" spelled on it

Edited July 22, 2015 by DarkWanderer

[vilas 477]

And this article is precisely the reason why sometimes you should not trust Wikipedia.

why ?

cause i trust Wikipedia

because bank told something ?

i do not belive banks, i do not belive Bilderberg Group members, i do not belive big corporations too

[John Kozak 14]

why ?

cause i trust Wikipedia

because bank told something ?

i do not belive banks, i do not belive Bilderberg Group members, i do not belive big corporations too

Well, all I can say is good luck in that.