Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[m1lkm8n 410]

A3L has been informed of their mistakes and they are trying to fix it by causing the least chaos possible. If they shut down the servers and spend months creating new framework and models etc. Their community will go absolutely ape-shit on them because they will have nothing to play on

That's not our problem. Maybe they should have thought twice before using code and addons without permission. Their community should go ape-shit on them now for doing just that.

[Necramonium 10]

He just said in his stream (NormalDifficulty), that he doesnt care about the legal issues. But he will be monetizing his video's with the A3L content.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Necramonium

[nodunit 397]

gotten from places like armaholic (where content creators encourage people to implement their work into the game)

Wrong, content creators release something and thats it, it is up to the rest if they do or do not want to play with it. And we do NOT encourage people to take our stuff and impliment it into their own mods, we're open to the idea yes but just because we release something does not mean we want it put into the works of others, if that were the case then we would not have readme's stating "Please contact author if you wish to do something with this content."

It is not our fault that the devs chose to ignore the license, our request, and then go on to say we essentially have no rights.

[GSP167 1]

I have followed the A3L community since they posted their first video in August 2013.

At one point, I was an active member of the community and even rose to a "Support Team" member in their community. Soon after, I was kicked off the support team for "trash talking" how the administration handled their business within the community.

Although I do not agree with all of their actions when it comes to managing the community, I do not think there needs to be legal action taken against them. Yes, they did "steal" some things but they give every single person credit for their work. Its not like theyre saying "we made this and we own it" no. They gave tonic the credit for the framework and all their "pistol packs" etc that they use were gotten from places like armaholic (where content creators encourage people to implement their work into the game)

And now for their donation system, I am not going to say that I agree with the who "donate to get in" aspect of the community, but it seems like they have bohemia interactive's support on the situation. (this is the most recent comment i have found from a BI employee regarding the donation system: http://gyazo.com/c69d5281698351829c597693725498fa)

As for me, I havent done all my research to decide whos "right" in this whole thing. But i do know one thing--They NEED to get of Tonic's framework. (which they are in the process of doing)

I would encourage you to read their side of the story before making a conclusion for what side you are on

here is a link to a post from their project lead regarding this whole thing:

http://arma3-life.com/forums/index.php?/topic/35121-a3l-intellectual-property-statement/

Thanks,

Xgamer224

How many times are people going to bring this up? "We got it from Armaholic therefore it's okay".

The mod being on Armaholic DOES NOT give you the right to use it in order to make a PROFIT. Please try again with a stronger argument.

[tonic-_- 53]

A3L has been informed of their mistakes and they are trying to fix it by causing the least chaos possible. If they shut down the servers and spend months creating new framework and models etc. Their community will go absolutely ape-shit on them because they will have nothing to play on

If they wanted to do something with the least amount of "chaos" possible then they would of not skipped out on crucial development time. I've done the research extensively and they have been "in development" for well over a year. I am sorry but if you spend that much time in development then code wise everything should be yours and completely custom. Code its self is the LEAST time consuming part of a mod design such as this. The most time consuming part is models which are also stolen (Irony). The island its self was already built so modifying it and making that work for ARMA 3 should of been at the most 4 months worth of work.

I can say all of this from pure experience as I have learned it all for the ARMA series but personally prefer code. Their actions speak clearly for a profitable gain and not much more. I am sure in the very beginning they wanted to build something nice but once time goes on those thoughts and feelings always change when you realize the potential profit gain. This goes especially for the fact that they spent months an months hyping it up to only slack around, it's a classic money grab scheme seen by actual game publishers. In my own opinion I seriously doubt they will move off of my code in particular and I can say that from seeing how they've coded in the past. The way a person codes and then produces something later on speaks for what their capabilities and motives are.

I also do not appreciate their constant attempts to discredit me because the only person allowed and able to do that is myself. I have done nothing but give back to the arma community and players and never expected anything in return. Although what I have given back a large majority of the community does not like :butbut: or at least the people that it attracts.

[nuxil 2]

Who gives a shit about this?

The people who got their work abused & monetized. ??

Maybe if this happend to you, you would have another attitude than "give a shit"

[ArmaPilot 1]

If they wanted to do something with the least amount of "chaos" possible then they would of not skipped out on crucial development time. I've done the research extensively and they have been "in development" for well over a year. I am sorry but if you spend that much time in development then code wise everything should be yours and completely custom. Code its self is the LEAST time consuming part of a mod design such as this. The most time consuming part is models which are also stolen (Irony). The island its self was already built so modifying it and making that work for ARMA 3 should of been at the most 4 months worth of work.

I can say all of this from pure experience as I have learned it all for the ARMA series but personally prefer code. Their actions speak clearly for a profitable gain and not much more. I am sure in the very beginning they wanted to build something nice but once time goes on those thoughts and feelings always change when you realize the potential profit gain. This goes especially for the fact that they spent months an months hyping it up to only slack around, it's a classic money grab scheme seen by actual game publishers. In my own opinion I seriously doubt they will move off of my code in particular and I can say that from seeing how they've coded in the past. The way a person codes and then produces something later on speaks for what their capabilities and motives are.

I also do not appreciate their constant attempts to discredit me because the only person allowed and able to do that is myself. I have done nothing but give back to the arma community and players and never expected anything in return. Although what I have given back a large majority of the community does not like :butbut: or at least the people that it attracts.

I love what they say on their forums. "Tonic is no better than Caiden so it was alright to say 'kill yourself' on BI forums".

It literally now is just them blaming everything on you.

[tonic-_- 53]

I love what they say on their forums. "Tonic is no better than Caiden so it was alright to say 'kill yourself' on BI forums".

It literally now is just them blaming everything on you.

Makes sense, blame me because without me it wouldn't exist, seems logical. Highly intelligent people over there.

[MINKA 14]

If any one is wondering about where communities get their car models from (City Life included), There is a huge dump of 3D Models from Forza 3 and 4, Driver SF and a couple rally games. This dump includes HD Exterior with maintained UVs, HD Interior and even Wheels. Downloads are available instantly without limit or delay. So you could imagine how little work and easy to mass create cars for A3 is. This website is very popular between devs in A3 and A2. Im not gonna post the link because I will probs get bannez. Imma let you guys look Into it at your own accord. Contact Microsoft or Turn10 if u wish to report ;)

[GSP167 1]

If any one is wondering about where communities get their car models from (City Life included), There is a huge dump of 3D Models from Forza 3 and 4, Driver SF and a couple rally games. This dump includes HD Exterior with maintained UVs, HD Interior and even Wheels. Downloads are available instantly without limit or delay. So you could imagine how little work and easy to mass create cars for A3 is. This website is very popular between devs in A3 and A2. Im not gonna post the link because I will probs get bannez. Imma let you guys look Into it at your own accord. Contact Microsoft or Turn10 if u wish to report ;)

We knew about this, but thanks for sharing.

[eggbeast 3673]

I really think 101 pages of Internet White Knights and Trolls is enough. Who gives a shit about this? Mods can we lock this craptastic thread down and get back to important game related stuff?

Quadrono, mate, at your age, which is similar to all of the mod-makers complaining legitimately about the issue, you should know better than to flame a valid thread that is attempting to take-down one of the biggest criminal conspiracies against the modding community, who you rely upon for your gaming fun and hobby-time relaxation. I would hope you can review the evidence summary and perhaps rethink your wording...

Almost every Arma mod-maker has contacted us directly or via AMAR (or is in AMAR) to applaud the work we are doing to raise awareness of the issues and seek the removal of arma 3 life from the internet.

[Maio 293]

Stay on target!

[Necramonium 10]

Btw, i make skins for some race simulators like Game Stock Car, Assetto Corsa, etc, but in that modding world its a huge no no to take someone's skin and change it to your skin or use it in your own modded skin/car model. It's just common respect amongst modders/skinners.

[eggbeast 3673]

We are working together on tightening up all the license agreements as a result of this fiasco.

A lot of modders whose work you will know and love are holding their stuff back from release until it's sorted.

THIS is the kind of thing that will happen as a result of the A3L project... people don't want their stuff exploited, and they fear to release it at present.

So instead of working on pooks brdms in Arma 2 (Rangemaster project) and porting aircraft with varanon in Arma 3 (CUP project) this week I'm working on license agreements meh! I even have an update I cannot release until I have done the updated license... so our server is out of date and we can't fully test our work until it's protected properly.

[BL1P 35]

I dont mean to be a neigh sayer egg but how will this change anything ?

A3L blatantly ignored the licences and IP rights of the original content creators.

How would a new licence make things any different ?

Not trolling just wondering how a different licence would stop a bunch of thieves like A3L ?

[nuxil 2]

I dont mean to be a neigh sayer egg but how will this change anything ?

Exactly. as long as people dont respect copyright/licenses and ip rights, a lisence that is well written doesnt help much.

Sadly the only way to protect yourself against this is to encrypt the data. Even that is not 100% safe.

We dont have tools to create ebo's so we are left with this issue.

Altho there is ways to encypt your scripts. obscurifying the scripts is rather pointless.

but you can create a dll file that contains your script data. ofc you need to encrypt it in here aswell.using pure strings is bad. but this method is a bit tedious work.not impossible. but nothing i would reccomend tho..

Internet is full of copyright/license/ip infringement and pize of txt file is not going to change that :\

Edited November 17, 2014 by nuxil

[eggbeast 3673]

well it will take away any attempts at arguing over the ambiguity. at least half of the posts in this thread are misinformed because of those...

so it might help a lot of community people understand where the lines are drawn. then we'd have everyone supporting the campaign instead of only 85% of the community lol.

[BL1P 35]

well it will take away any attempts at arguing over the ambiguity. at least half of the posts in this thread are misinformed because of those...

so it might help a lot of community people understand where the lines are drawn. then we'd have everyone supporting the campaign instead of only 85% of the community lol.

True.

[m1lkm8n 410]

Internet is full of copyright/license/ip infringement and pize of txt file is not going to change that :\

Neither will an ebo.

[nuxil 2]

Neither will an ebo.

It will sure help a lot. It would make life a lot harder for the common guy to get hold of your data when its encrypted.

Less chance of it beeing riped open and taken apart then claim they made it. but as i said it will not be 100% safe.

There is always some cracker out there trying to break the encryption.

In an ideal world a license should be enough and people should respect it. but we all know thats not how the world is like.

No a ebo would not help against a infringement. in terms of (do not redistribute etc etc)

but if the files where in ebo. the a3l team would not be able to open them up and do changes.

[gibonez 18]

Does the petition still need signatures I would gladly sign it.

[Kerc Kasha 102]

It will sure help a lot. It would make life a lot harder for the common guy to get hold of your data when its encrypted.

Less chance of it beeing riped open and taken apart then claim they made it. but as i said it will not be 100% safe.

There is always some cracker out there trying to break the encryption.

In an ideal world a license should be enough and people should respect it. but we all know thats not how the world is like.

No a ebo would not help against a infringement. in terms of (do not redistribute etc etc)

but if the files where in ebo. the a3l team would not be able to open them up and do changes.

You do realize the ability to encrypt it would mean the encryption itself would be public and therefore easy to reverse engineer? It'd be just a minor speed bump like the current .pbo is

---------- Post added at 11:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 AM ----------

All this encryption crap does is make it harder for new modders to get into the scene because they can't learn from other mods. I've learnt pretty much everything I know from opening up others missions and addons and going "I wonder how they pulled that off" because sadly it's few and far between now for people to actually post their stuff because everyone is afraid of others infringing their IP

[nodunit 397]

Not to mention more hassle for the addon/mod creators themselves. Changing the license is mostly a means to get rid of any grey areas, the idea that say you can distribute the addon but not for profit so they toss out the arguement that donations are for server and not for the addon, so instead of going through a big grey area you simply state "Not for redistribution without authors permission" regardless of it being for pay or not, the simple act of including it in your mod without authorization would be breaking the license.

But ultimately the only way to make any of this matter is to take them to task and make an example of A3L that the licenses are something you need to adhere to not just because its a nice thing to do...private is one thing but public is a whole other can of worms.

[Kerc Kasha 102]

But ultimately the only way to make any of this matter is to take them to task and make an example of A3L that the licenses are something you need to adhere to not just because its a nice thing to do...private is one thing but public is a whole other can of worms.

But you can technically consider A3L private as it's a closed community that requires you to 'apply' for access (and allegedly pay for)

[nuxil 2]

You do realize the ability to encrypt it would mean the encryption itself would be public and therefore easy to reverse engineer? It'd be just a minor speed bump like the current .pbo is

In a way it already is. all you need is a bit knowhow and ollydbg or other debugers + some time. i say no more on that topic.

I am strongly for that Bis implements some sort of ebo for the community. (cebo "community encrypted binary object").

All this encryption crap does is make it harder for new modders to get into the scene because they can't learn from other mods. I've learnt pretty much everything I know from opening up others missions and addons and going "I wonder how they pulled that off" because sadly it's few and far between now for people to actually post their stuff because everyone is afraid of others infringing their IP

I agree with this to a point.

But there are more than one way to learn modding than ("peek at others stuff")

* 1 you can ask for permission and help the orginal author. if you do this im sure most of them will gladly help you.

* 2 you can use this excelent forum to get help. there are hole sections dedicated to scripting/addon making etc.

* 3 you can use the biki which has examples and covers the most basic stuff.

* 4 you can use the example pack provided by Bis to see how things are done.

* 5 you can join, forum groups on bif, skype groups, even irc channels

But this is a bit offtopic so i think i'll make a new thread about this insetad since (im not on target) anymore and this thread is about

what the a3l guys have done.

But my point is that. A license txt file is not enough anymore these days.

There are people who are pirates,theifs,asshols all over the place.

For a common modder who has spend hunderds of houers on making content, it is not that easy to get things sorted out when someone exploit your work.

So if you can protect you work somewhat against this, why not do so.

If you want to release your work in form of a pbo fine. if you want to release your work in from of ebo fine too let it be the authors choice.

Edited November 17, 2014 by nuxil