Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[haleks 8212]

Then again, I think you are just upset someone found a way to make money off of Arma 3 :^)

You're either completely dumb, or blatantly ignoring everything that has been discussed already.

[ProfTournesol 956]

As far as I have read, they didn't steal a mod. As a matter of fact, you can't "steal" a mod for Arma 2/3 because we are unable to sell mods.

I won't comment the rest of the post which doesn't deserve it, but this part is perfectly false : you can steal something that cannot be sold. You haven't any right to sell your passport, but i can steal it.

[Necramonium 10]

It seems Frankie has posted another video with the mod, so that would lure allot of people towards the mod as he has over 2 million subscribers.

[eggbeast 3684]

Arma 3 EULA

This computer software program, any printed materials, any online or electronic documentation, and any and all copies and derivative works of such software program and materials (the "Program") are the copyrighted work.

B.You are entitled to use the Program for your own use, but you are not entitled to:

(i) Sell or transfer reproductions of the Program to other parties in any way, nor to rent, lease or license the Program to others

(ii) Publish and/or distribute the computer Program or any of its parts

(iii) Exploit the Program or any of its parts for any commercial purpose including, but not limited to, use at a cybercafe, computer gaming centre, computer aided training center or any other location-based site where multiple users may access the Program

They didn't sell it to you. Paying to access content is not commercializing a mod, its providing a service. Then again, I think you are just upset someone found a way to make money off of Arma 3 :^)

do you want to rephrase that sir?

[janus0104 3]

I like the latest patch notes...

CSE Initial Release by CSE Dev team:

http://csemod.com/

Included in A3L modpack with permission.

Except no permission was given. Petition signed :)

[das attorney 858]

It seems Frankie has posted another video with the mod, so that would lure allot of people towards the mod as he has over 2 million subscribers.

I think BIS do hold the right to remove Youtubers monetisation privileges if they want.

I'm not saying they should in this case, and I doubt whether they would anyway as it would cost them exposure and lost $$$; but it is an option.

See here Dean Hall referring to Rhinocrunch:

https://twitter.com/rocket2guns/status/340009788576518144

[BL1P 35]

If frankie won't listen report the video.

[fluttershy 2]

oh think i know form where the cars from forza and co came from thanks to stevenW129 if you look hear http://gamemodels.ru/files/ maybe we find a lot of other cars they used

I can confirm that a variety of Models were used that originaly belong to several different Tripple A titles and were created to rather big developers. As small examples, i know some of these have already been posted but its just to remind everyone whats up, rFactor, Real Racing 3, Crysis 2 and so on. That is game content taken clearly without permission and also wrapped in a "we did all of this on our own" pack.

The amazing presumptuousness of the people deciding to publish this as "there mod" becomes blatantly when you realize that, on top of profiting from user created content. Yes profiting since i assume there friendly donations would not be nearly as charitable if all the content created by other hard working authors, and again tripple a studios, would not be part of "the full package".

That in return means, by being accepted as a player, regardless if you have donated or not, you gain access to material that would otherwise not be obtainable and is stolen property of a third party that clearly has Copyrights on said material. So i guess it is clear to everyone that there disrespect for authors rights goes beyond uncredited use and renaming of files in order to conceal there origin.

[StevenW129 10]

I like the latest patch notes...

Except no permission was given. Petition signed :)

I'm checking that one.

EDIT: Oops, sorry, just realized, you're one of the staff members for CSE right?

[janus0104 3]

I'm checking that one.

EDIT: Oops, sorry, just realized, you're one of the staff members for CSE right?

Correct :D Basically we were approached, the response was the standard:

As per the usual license, you can use the mod on a server, no problem, but you can't charge any money for access or downloading, cannot include the source code or modify the content.

So basically, all the permission they received was them reading the standard license.

[StevenW129 10]

Correct :D

I literally just sent an e-mail to you guys to check, damn xD Well I find it hilarious how Caiden is pulling the "I got permission" card when in reality, he didn't even bother asking. Oh it gets deeper and deeper this silly hole.

[janus0104 3]

I literally just sent an e-mail to you guys to check, damn xD Well I find it hilarious how Caiden is pulling the "I got permission" card when in reality, he didn't even bother asking. Oh it gets deeper and deeper this silly hole.

No official permission, we just quote the license to them. They take that as permission to violate the license is not obtaining permission. They did credit us though, you know, as in "CSE added" in the changelog, so there's that.

[StevenW129 10]

So we can add the breach of Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License (CC BY-NC-ND). to the list now.

[nodunit 397]

As far as I have read, they didn't steal a mod. As a matter of fact, you can't "steal" a mod for Arma 2/3 because we are unable to sell mods.

Also, they aren't commercializing mods. Lets say I had debinarized the Kuma, remodeled it to have a railgun cannon, pbo'ed it and put it back in game, hypothetically. Imagine if I were to say to you, "I'll give you a railgun tank for $10". You give me $10 and I give you a mega link to the pbo. Then I'd be commercializing EULA BIS content and that would be illegal. I would be selling a piece of content that you do not have, that you do not already own, which I cannot legally claim complete ownership of. In the case of Arma 3 Life, you already have the content on your computer as you cannot connect to the server without the mods. While they do not have legal ownership of the mod, they don't need to as you already have and own the mod in your Arma 3 install folder. With Arma 3 Life, you are paying for a service exclusive to their server. You are paying for a script to execute "If ArmaID = ABC then addweapon XYZ". You can play with the content all you want in the editor or single player you already own it. They didn't sell it to you. Paying to access content is not commercializing a mod, its providing a service.

If anything you should be upset at their customers who obtain the mods and enable them to sell a service to use them.

Then again, I think you are just upset someone found a way to make money off of Arma 3 :^)

If the mod were fully vanilla then yes you would be right, you technicly would have the content already. However, the mod uses content ripped from addon creators and from other games as has been stated multiple times already

I'm not bothered by people making money off Arma 3, if someone asks for donations then so be it, I have no problem with that in normal circumstances.

If they wanted to use donations to quell the impatient user for a quicker sign up then while I don't like the idea I do understand it and wouldn't have much issue.

No the issue for me comes in that aside from the speed up in your selection they are also promising incentives some of which are taken from other people, if the purpose of the donation system is supposed to be to let you get into a particular role faster then there should be no need for any other incentives...yet there are, and that is where my beef lies, furthered by the attitude of people that would be the "face" of this mod basicly saying "You don't want us using your mod? Well we don't care what you say."

When I look at this I don't see a mod as much as a entity hiding behind a the term "mod". We see things like this happen with indies in the game industry a lot, developers taking assets from other sources with no crediting or without permission and then charging money for it, there are a lot pf parallels between the two when you broaden your scope and look beyond "its a mod".

Edited November 10, 2014 by NodUnit

[slatts 1978]

Oh yeah, it's all OK guys Hjohnson is right you can't steal mods...

I can think of a couple ways but not going to post them just on the side of caution.

[mbaxter 10]

No official permission, we just quote the license to them. They take that as permission to violate the license is not obtaining permission. They did credit us though, you know, as in "CSE added" in the changelog, so there's that.

Janus,

I do apologize that you might not have got the notification of our approval for utilizing CSE but we spoke directly with Cage. Please speak with him directly if you have any further issues.

Thanks

Mike Baxter

P.S. As stated moving forward I will absolutely be making sure things we utilize will be given permission to utilize.

[GSP167 1]

Janus,

I do apologize that you might not have got the notification of our approval for utilizing CSE but we spoke directly with Cage. Please speak with him directly if you have any further issues.

Thanks

Mike Baxter

P.S. As stated moving forward I will absolutely be making sure things we utilize will be given permission to utilize.

Then start removing the stuff you've been asked to remove numerous times and stop pretending to be respecting the ToS & EULA.

New reddit thread; http://www.reddit.com/r/arma/comments/2lx0n5/petitionaltis_life_mod_piracy_and_income/

[janus0104 3]

Janus,

I do apologize that you might not have got the notification of our approval for utilizing CSE but we spoke directly with Cage. Please speak with him directly if you have any further issues.

Thanks

Mike Baxter

P.S. As stated moving forward I will absolutely be making sure things we utilize will be given permission to utilize.

Yea, no. I'm literally quoting Glowbal here. You* asked for permission, you were told how the license works, no monetization. You did it anway.

In blunt terms: You received no permission whatsoever. You were simply informed how it works for every single ArmA 3 mod:

- You can use it.

- You can't modify it.

- You can't monetize it.

It's not pick 1 out of 3, you can't selectively read parts of the license you like and stop reading there.

Do you guys even realize how illegal it is what you're doing? You're not just ignoring some game EULAs here. A lot of artwork used in mods stems from sources that simply don't allow commercial usage, so you're breaking copyright laws with literally dozens of plaintiffs involved, and that's a modest estimate.

This includes texture artists, sound artists, stock-footage providers, all of which are happy to share creative content with like-wise people, but none of them want their hard work exploited. And the law tends to agree with them.

It doesn't even matter whether you charge for access any more at this point. The fact that you have done so in the past makes all those past incomes commercial use of copyrighted material.

That is also the reason why you weren't given permission and simply can't obtain permission to use mods like CSE commercially. Such permission can not be given as it's not ours to give. You would have to obtain permission from, pay royalties to, and attribute every single contributing artist, company, artwork shop involved in the creation of such simple things as the body image of CSE's CMS. Let us know how that one goes.

As it stands, it is simply illegal to distribute ArmA 3 Life in a commercial fashion, just as it illegal to commercialize pirated MMO servers and such. Not very smart. You know your user numbers better than we do, scroll down on that page and use a calculator. You know, just to make sure what you're doing is worth it. Admittedly it's not quite the same since MMOs have a charge-per-month system, but the court clearly decided then and there that their "donations" count as commercial income.

* You referring to the original creators/hosts of ArmA 3 Life. I don't know nor care who is personally involved in all this, not my business.

Edited November 11, 2014 by janus0104

[miketim 20]

http://store.steampowered.com/app/294020/

Reminded me of this thread, from the title.

Lol, the description is a bit ironic too.

[A.Cyprus 16]

P.S. As stated moving forward I will absolutely be making sure things we utilize will be given permission to utilize.

Well, as long as it's moving forward. That's awesome.

At least then we can rest assured all the past concerns (such as not refunding who knows how many naive souls were scammed of donations in breach of eula, and not making amends to who knows how many genuine hard working devs have had their licenses violated and work stolen) will disappear into ignorant bliss and in fact never happened at all.

On another note, question for Matt, Members of AMAR and others of the community in the know:

Is it possible to release my addons under one license for the general community but a more restrictive one (or fully prohibitive one) for A3L?

I'd like to do this in order to avoid "confusion" such as the CSE issue earlier. Obviously that wasn't simple enough for the A3L team to understand.

[MattLightfoot 1]

Well, as long as it's moving forward. That's awesome.

At least then we can rest assured all the past concerns (such as not refunding who knows how many naive souls were scammed of donations in breach of eula, and not making amends to who knows how many genuine hard working devs have had their licenses violated and work stolen) will disappear into ignorant bliss and in fact never happened at all.

On another note, question for Matt, Members of AMAR and others of the community in the know:

Is it possible to release my addons under one license for the general community but a more restrictive one (or fully prohibitive one) for A3L?

I'd like to do this in order to avoid "confusion" such as the CSE issue earlier. Obviously that wasn't simple enough for the A3L team to understand.

I'm sorry I'm not able to give exact legal advise however licensing is fully within the rights of the author (provided you adhere to all the licenses of the stuff you used to make your work).

[A.Cyprus 16]

Thanks for the prompt reply, Matt.

[MattLightfoot 1]

Well, as long as it's moving forward. That's awesome.

At least then we can rest assured all the past concerns (such as not refunding who knows how many naive souls were scammed of donations in breach of eula, and not making amends to who knows how many genuine hard working devs have had their licenses violated and work stolen) will disappear into ignorant bliss and in fact never happened at all.

On another note, question for Matt, Members of AMAR and others of the community in the know:

Is it possible to release my addons under one license for the general community but a more restrictive one (or fully prohibitive one) for A3L?

I'd like to do this in order to avoid "confusion" such as the CSE issue earlier. Obviously that wasn't simple enough for the A3L team to understand.

I'm sorry I'm not able to give exact legal advice however licensing is within the rights of the author (provided you adhere to all the licenses of the tools you used to make your work).

[fluttershy 2]

Well, as long as it's moving forward. That's awesome.

At least then we can rest assured all the past concerns (such as not refunding who knows how many naive souls were scammed of donations in breach of eula, and not making amends to who knows how many genuine hard working devs have had their licenses violated and work stolen) will disappear into ignorant bliss and in fact never happened at all.

On another note, question for Matt, Members of AMAR and others of the community in the know:

Is it possible to release my addons under one license for the general community but a more restrictive one (or fully prohibitive one) for A3L?

I'd like to do this in order to avoid "confusion" such as the CSE issue earlier. Obviously that wasn't simple enough for the A3L team to understand.

Taken from the AMAR FAQ

All parts of an addon that the addonmaker himself made is his own property and it is their decision how they want the content to be used. An addon or mod that is released to the public remains the sole property of the creator(s) and anyone using it is subject to the terms of use as defined by the creator(s). All addons are distributed as freeware, but freeware is not the same as open source. Freeware means that the package may be distributed freely, the BIS EULA adds the condition that this must be done free of any sort of payment, but may not be edited freely. All addons are freeware unless the creator(s) states otherwise.

Taken from http://www.bistudio.com/community/game-content-usage-rules

What can I do with content made by other users?

You must respect the copyright of other people, not just Bohemia Interactive, if it infringes someone else’s rights then you can’t do it. Usually there is a clear license included with each work. If there is no clear license, you are simply not authorized to use it. Just because something is available for download doesn't mean that you can freely use it.

Though i did not come across any type of valid license that removes a curtain party from the "allowed to use" list. Even the CC BY-NC-ND Creative commons license would not enable you to ban A3L Users from downloading your work. Especially since they apperently do not mind any type of license, as even the very basic APL, APL-SA and DML by Bohmeia do say that the creator would at least need to be mentioned. The only way to keep A3L away from your mod would not be releasing it public.

Edited November 11, 2014 by fluttershy

[A.Cyprus 16]

I appreciate the license itself may not be enough to prevent A3L using it against my wishes.

May aim is rather to simplify understanding and recognition of any such violations by clearly stating that my addons may not be used in, for, by or with A3L in any format, etc.

Consider it my small way of raising awareness or making a personal stand, beyond the greater efforts already in progress.