what rifle is this?

[Brainbug 10]

I think here are enough "gun nuts" ;) around, so I hope to get an answer to my question: What rifle do we see here?

I saw this on a low quality tv series, it was "sold" to the viewers as a M200 sniper rifle, which is of course totally wrong (that series is so full of errors that it hurts to watch it^^). I first thought for a second it might be a Walther WA2000, but quickly found that to be untrue as well. So my interest was awakened, what is this? Unfortunately, there are no more hints available, I checked the whole episode, couldn't spot manufacturer writings etc. But it is obviously not just a cheap mockup that should look like a rifle, it is only shown for a few seconds, and the series' producers wouldn't have made any effort to invent a fantasy rifle with that detail.

Here we see the shooter assembling the weapon, so barrel and scope are still missing on the first two pics:

Does anyone have a clue?

[JdB 151]

Having seen hundreds and hundreds of sniper rifles I can safely say ... never seen it before ...

[NeMeSiS 11]

You didnt mention the name of the TV program, but have you tried http://www.imfdb.org/ ?

[Tonci87 163]

The name of the TV program is in the upper left corner... ZDF German second channel. And since they have a Mediathek where for a certain time you can watch stuff if you missed an episode all we now need is the name of the series.

[Brainbug 10]

well, just for completeness sake, this was yesterday's episode of "Soko Leipzig", video link is here: http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/#/beitrag/video/2250032/%22Allein-gegen-die-Mafia%22 But only available for a week after airing and maybe only in Germany for copyright reasons (not sure).

But that won't help you, as I said, there is no further footage of that rifle (took the pics from around 3:15). And in the story, they had someone shot dead with a small headwound (like from a .22 pistol or so), but then said it was a "M200 rifle", and I doubt there is much left of a human head if hit by a .408 Cheytac, so this is totally nonsense. And everything else is also made up and doesn't fit at all (they obviously don't have any technical advisors, so the series like a lot of TV productions have a lot of blatant errors, e.g. a policeman working the slide of his pistol when he enters a room, then again after they found it to be empty, but no cartridge drops on the floor, so that are three errors already, and I'm not even talking about the suicidal movements he makes when clearing the apartment - just sad^^).

So no, looking at the episode thoroughly won't help at all, because muzzle sounds, shooting distance etc. are totally made up by the film crew, who don't know shit and don't give a shit about detail accuracy either.

Having seen hundreds and hundreds of sniper rifles I can safely say ... never seen it before ...

Not a good sign :( However, that makes it an even more interesting puzzle^^

Edited October 11, 2014 by Brainbug

[krzychuzokecia 706]

It's a movie prop, made to look like a Keppeler KS-II. For those who are interested in "weird guns" - this is Keppeler KS-III, and this is KS-V (the nicest one IMHO). They have magazine well on the left side of the receiver (movie prop seems to have no magazine - even if it fires, it must be a single-shot rifle).

But it is obviously not just a cheap mockup that should look like a rifle, it is only shown for a few seconds, and the series' producers wouldn't have made any effort to invent a fantasy rifle with that detail.

Actually, they often do - see weird "bullpup-bolt-action-that-fires-like-semi-auto" in Skyfall. It was used (apparently) in only one movie!

EDIT: Keppeler KS-II used in British TV series (nice close-ups that allow us to compare it with Bourne/Soko Leipzig prop).

Edited October 11, 2014 by krzychuzokecia

[Brainbug 10]

ahh, that's it! very interesting! There is even the possibility that is even the exact same prop from the Bourne movie, as that was a coproduction with a German company, so maybe they sold or leased that prop to the company that makes Soko Leipzig, or both companies hired the same prop provider. For an expensive cinema movie, they certainly construct props, but not for this tv series, so it is something that was re-used - and if it is a prop prototype, then quite probably only one exists at all. Proof for that theory: the slightly lighter wood color on the handguard than on the other wood parts is the same in the Bourne and the above pics, also a few scratches on the buttstock are the same.

And I'm sure they used this one because they could get it easier and cheaper than ordering an airsoft remake of a real weapon. I just don't know why they let the forensic say "this was an M200", just letting him say "don't know, might be a custom model, as pro killers often have" would have been equally good for the plot. But then again I don't understand a lot of the unnecessarily unrealistic details in TV series.

Anyway, thanks very much for clearing that up! :)

[Tonci87 163]

It´s a german TV series, they are usually not that good... especially not when it comes to realism.

[krzychuzokecia 706]

There is even the possibility that is even the exact same prop from the Bourne movie,

I'd say that it IS the very same prop ;)

both companies hired the same prop provider.

That'd be the most possible option.

For an expensive cinema movie, they certainly construct props, but not for this tv series

Yes and no - in TV series such prop could be an important "story item", so it'd be re-used in various episodes. In "expensive Hollywood blockbuster", if protagonist have some special weapons, then your propmaster would make them too (think all the gadgets in older 007 movies, or EMP-rifle in last Nolan's Batman). But usually you don't need such stuff, and use commercial off the shelf weaponry. But even then some weird props may have some use - I believe that "Bourne/Leipzig rifle" was used in more movies than those two. Probably it was made as a Walther WA2000 stand in, and as such it was used in Bourne - prop companies often have such items, because producers want to use guns that are too expensive to obtain. Even for Hollywood companies.

I just don't know why they let the forensic say "this was an M200", just letting him say "don't know, might be a custom model, as pro killers often have" would have been equally good for the plot.

Maybe because CheyTac is kind of "famous" among people - they know the name from other movies/computer games/books, but no one will recognize that this isn't real CheyTac? But the name, it is what matters: "wow, this guy use CheyTac, must be really badass killer!".

Actually, such "inaccuracies" don't really annoy me. What's driving me mad is rather "cinematic gun-fu": hip-shooting snipers, hundreds of rounds from one mag, or (the worst kind) "I'm gonna unload my gun - see? I've removed the mag, now it's safe!" (not). Many people see such behaviour in movies, and then "replay" it on shooting ranges, thus being dangerous to themselves and others. Don't take me wrong: I don't expect people on range to be Olympic champions, but often you see "I've watched Die Hard 400 times in a row!" types who have no idea about safe gun handling. Still, they act so confident and don't pay attention to instructor's commands.

[Tonci87 163]

Well Hollywood isn´t very realistic either :)

Arnold with his infinite ammo mags and belts^^

[krzychuzokecia 706]

Well Hollywood isn´t very realistic either :)

Either? Hollywood isn't realistic in first place! :p

[vilas 474]

not only hollywood, as offtop i can add about Polish movie industry and weapons

2 decades ago Poland had some Soviet ammo 5.45 mm rifles in serice and they prepared subcarbine Onyks (mk 1989) which was Polish AKS-74U like gun, this rifle was made in afair 200 serie, or like this, it was in few Police and Army units in storage (NEVER IN SERVICE !),

than we get into NATO and we changed to 5.56 mm

so all Onyks rifles were ... given to movie industry,

as a result in almost all movies of 90s/00s Polish police or commando had Onyks rifle, while real police has MP5

the same joke was with hunting rifle "Hunter", this hunting rifle is ... main sniper rifle in Polish movies , it is AKM single shot with 10rnd 7.62*39 mag some inches longer barrel and PSO1

so if there was Polish movie , than you seen SWAT with Onyx and sniper with Hunter

none of those "main movie" rifles were used by police or army

if someone would try to find in military arsenal things he see on movie, he could have problem and he would have to look for hunting civilian stuff

Edited October 13, 2014 by vilas

[Brainbug 10]

interesting to know!

These inaccuracies are obviously all due to budget constraints (like a "police" helicopter that was the wrong model and had the wrong color and had an aircraft id number I could track to a private firm that is leasing choppers for film productions^^), and thus I understand that this has to be made this way.

BUT what I don't understand is that if you start planning a series that depicts police criminal investigators, why don't you hire e.g. a pensioned police academy teacher, give him a few hundred Euros and ask him to have a look at their script and the production as technical advisor. It is often the case that police run into a situation carelessly and are then forced to shoot people or get shot, and you know that this was dumb but needed to let person x die for story reasons. With a little more thought in the script, this could have been solved much smarter. But this shows that the film production people just don't care at all to do their job properly to deliver a good result, which should be embarrassing for everyone with a bit of work ethics.

Another problem of this is that, because most people know police only from movies and tv series", they start to think that police are really like that. TV police are unable to collect evidence, they always need a confession to make their case, they stumble carelessly across a crime scene destroying evidence, jump to conclusions, and too often there are cases of mistreatment, like hitting a suspect out of personal rage, that never leads to serious consequences. While in reality, just telling a suspect that he might receive a blow if he doesn't talk is already a good way to end your police career. Lawyers are always portrayed as sleazy, arrogant assholes, rich people always have a mental problem, unsocial family life and live in a weird square-shaped uncomfortable Bauhaus house with insane large windows, big shine empty tables etc.

I'm just afraid that this utter bullshit changes the society slowly over time and we get US conditions where people are afraid of police and expect to be mistreated, so it doesn't help if I just refrain from watching such crap. *sigh*

[eggbeast 3673]

if you want to play "spot the crazy unrealistic mistake" watch this hilarious movie. I was in fits of laughter all the way through

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2555426/

About halfway through I realised it was based on a video game, which obviously has plotting like castle wolfenstein - absolutely hilarious.

Note the main guy carries a russian scope rifle in the US army in the battle of the bulge... that was what got me sitting up and paying attention lol. by the time we had gotten to the bit with vinnie jones' mockney accent and then the guys driving in a truck calling in an airstrke from lancaster bombers passing overhead, i was laughing so hard i almost defecated...

here's a list of the mistakes from some other rivet-counters lol

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2555426/goofs?ref_=tttrv_sa_1

---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 PM ----------

btw, we're making one of these at the moment