Ka-50 hokum history..

[akm74 1]

And this is idea for next addon. You can call it "KA52 prototype"

And don't forget "Camanche" for the west to balance the sides ...

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (zverushka @ June 29 2002,16:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm not a crazy psycho, not anymore more than you guys <span id='postcolor'>

your contradicting yourself there.

[Aaron Kane 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AKM74 @ June 29 2002,05:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think BIS find easy way to balance east and west. You see...

1930 TT pistol = modern west equipment. (They don't respect you guys)

T80 (downgraded to T34) = modern Abrams

KA50 (no weapons, downgraded to civilian chopper) = Apache

Common BIS, west guys will not like you anymore, you not respect them.

BTW

Very good job on resistance add-on, graphics and all this extra very welcome. Good work.

The situations with weapons balance remind me US road workers. (Guys from US will understand me)

"If you have not enough cars to create traffic, you must close line or two"<span id='postcolor'>

I dont mean to be rude, but could you please rephrase that?

[akm74 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dont mean to be rude, but could you please rephrase that?<span id='postcolor'>

I wish I could, but my English sucks. Sorry guys.

[RedStorm 0]

Hmmm....I think I can describe this thread in one word. Let me try...ok, here goes: lol!

[Kasatka 0]

More History....

Project launched in December 1977 as V-80 (Vertolyet 80: Helicopter 80); first prototype (010) built by Kamov bureau and hovered at Lyubertsy 17 June 1982 and flew on 23 July, powered by TV3-117V engines; second prototype (011) flew 16 August 1983 with TV3-117VMA engines and mockup of Shkval tracking system, Merkury LLLTV, cannon and K-041 sighting system; both prototypes wore painted `windows' to simulate fictitious rear cockpits. Initially reported in West in mid-1984, but first photograph did not appear (US Department of Defense's Soviet Military Power) until 1989.

First prototype lost in fatal accident on 3 April 1985; replaced by third prototype (012) with Mercury LLTV system for state comparative test programme against Mil Mi-28, which completed in August 1986. Two preproduction V-80Sh-1s (014 and 015) were first to be built at Arsenyev and introduced UV-26 chaff/flare dispensers; second had K-37-800 ejection system and mockup of LLLTV in articulated turret. Ordered into production in December 1987. Further three for continued development work comprised 018 (first flown at Arsenyev 22 May 1991), 020 `Werewolf' and 021 `Black Shark'. (Export marketing name was originally Werewolf, but changed to Black Shark by 1996.) State tests of Ka-50 began in mid-1991 and type was commissioned into Russian Army Aviation in August 1993 for trials at 4th Army Aviation Training Centre, Torzhok. In August 1994, the Ka-50 was included in the Russian Army inventory by Presidential decree, judged winner of the fly-off against Mi-28. The Mi-28 was nominally terminated on 5 October 1994 but the competition continued.

Further army evaluation followed when first two of four production Ka-50s were funded in 1994 and officially accepted on 28 August 1995; third and fourth received in 1996; these four numbered 20 to 23 (prompting preseries 021 to be renumbered 024 to avoid confusion). Arsenyev production was to have increased to one per month during 1997, but this did not occur. The original Ka-50 (and rival Mi-28A) were overtaken by the issue of a revised requirement which emphasised night capability - favouring the two-seat Mi-28. The initial order for 15 Ka-50s was reportedly cancelled in September 1998, with procurement postponed until 2003. Three deployed to Mozdok during 1999 for use in Chechnya.

Klimov VK-3000 turboshaft offered as alternative power plant.

(As I could see the V-80 doesn't have a cannon..)

[deniz 0]

lol ..

how stupid

russkie zabeite na eto dermoviy resistance, nichego vi ne dobietes. nas, kak pologaetsa, zasunuli v polnuu zadnicu.. ostaetsa lish proglotit`

ne vidat nam realnogo ka kak svoih ushei

takova nasha uchast` - bit` dermom v igrah, gde prisutstvuet NATO

luchshe sami naklepaite vertolet.. esli oxygen est

[Kasatka 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (deniz @ July 01 2002,04:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">lol ..

how stupid

russkie zabeite na eto dermoviy resistance, nichego vi ne dobietes. nas, kak pologaetsa, zasunuli v polnuu zadnicu.. ostaetsa lish proglotit`

ne vidat nam realnogo ka kak svoih ushei

takova nasha uchast` - bit` dermom v igrah, gde prisutstvuet NATO

luchshe sami naklepaite vertolet.. esli oxygen est <span id='postcolor'>

E a mamăe vai bem? seu otário.....

[RPG 0]

An all these NATO Addons!

Mi-1

Mi-2

Mi-4

Mi-6

Mi-8

Mi-28 Havoc

Mi-40

Ka-25 Hormone (Not Kidding)

Ka-27

Ka-31 (Radar)

Ka-32 Helix

Ka-58 (New Stelth One Comeing Out In 2008)

One Day Over The Shaterd Skys Of Everon American Helicopers Will Check In But Wont Check Out

[deniz 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kasatka @ July 02 2002,03:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">E a mamãe vai bem? seu otário.....  <span id='postcolor'>

íĺň, Å„ÄÅ•Å„Äáî! Äĺđĺáüţńü....

[Sphinx 0]

Just to add to the random blabber thats developing in this thread. I named my Mini Pincher "Hokum" after my fav chopper.

[USSoldier11B 0]

Anyone know anything about aeronautical engineering? How does it benefit from having tadem rotors in that configuration?

[shernt250 0]

by having a tandem rotor you dont need a tail rotor any more to counter the forces of the main rotor so you dont spin around in the air becaude the other rotor balances out the force produced by the rotor below it thus neutalizing the effecting side force(the force that make the helicoter spin stationary) on a helicoper similar to a screw(propeller) on a vessel(boat).I think thats a benefit or mayby more power or more chicks like twin rotor aircraft.LOL

[LBGS_Stewart 0]

the counter rotating roter dosnt need the tail roter because the tourke is  nutralised.    also making the choper more stable because now the pilot dosnt have to worry about controling the  sping of the tail roter to conter ballance the tourke of the main roter. also  a counter rotating roter is able to fly high then one with a single roter. and the counter rotating roter should make the helicpter quierter also because studies showed that the Majority of the noise from the chooper  comes from tail roter       (watched on Discovering wings)   as long as there info is accerate

kinda like prop airplanes aircraft with props has this tourke effect also this single engen plans usly pull to the right when accelerating because of the direction of the Moter but multi prop planes such as the P38 lighting had the props go in different directions thus counter ballancing the tourke

[shernt250 0]

I love Wings, Seawings and weapons at war. I think that the discovery channel and TLC and Janes online is the best place to look for info on military developments and specs. Expecialy janes!

[USSoldier11B 0]

Ahhhh, I did not see that it was lacking a tail rotor. Very practical. It probably manuevers better as well. Most importantly it wouldn't be vulnerable to spinning out of control when hit by ADA fire in the tail (Where most passive infared tracking missles are likely to strike.) Thanks guys. Geez, I'm supposed to be an expert on this shit. I'd better go study.

[Satchel 0]

From www.army-technology.com:

The Ka-50 Black Shark helicopter, developed by Kamov Helicopters JSC, carries the NATO codename Hokum A, Hokum B being the two-seat version, Ka-52. Ka-50 is also known as Werewolf. It entered service in the Russian Army during 1995 and is in full production at the Sazykin Aviation Company Progress based in Arseniev Maritime Territory, Russia. A first batch of eight aircraft have been delivered, with further production orders expected. It is a high performance combat helicopter with day and night capability, high survivability and fire power to defeat air targets and heavily armoured tanks armed with air defence weapons.

A night attack version, Ka-50N, with Samshit-50T thermal imager, day TV and laser rangefinder has been developed, and Kamov has also joined with Israeli Aircraft Industries (IAI) to produce a version, the Ka-50-2 Erdogan that is compatible with NATO weapons and has an Israeli equipped cockpit.

DESIGN

The coaxial rotor design provides a hovering ceiling of 4,000 m and vertical rate of climb of 10 m/sec at an altitude of 2,500 m. The rotor blades are made from polymer materials. The coaxial-rotor configuration results in moments of inertia values relative to vertical and lateral axes being between 1.5 to 2 times less than the values found in single rotor helicopters with tailrotors. Absence of the tail rotor enables the helicopter to perform flat turns within the entire flight speed range. A maximum vertical g-load of 3.5 combined with low moments of inertia give the Ka-50 a high level of agility.

Extensive all-round armour installed in the cockpit protects the pilot against 12.7 mm armour piercing bullets and 23 mm projectile fragments. The rotor blades are rated to withstand several hits of ground-based automatic weapons.

The Ka-50 is the world's first operational helicopter with a rescue ejection system, which allows pilot to escape at all altitudes and speeds. The K-37-800 Rocket Assisted Ejection System is manufactured by the Zvezda Research and Production Enterprise Joint Stock Company in the Moscow Region.

WEAPONS

A combination of various armaments to a maximum weapon load of 2 tons can be selected according to the mission, including anti-tank missiles, unguided aerial rockets of different calibres, air-to-air missiles, guns, bombs and other weapons.

The helicopter has small mid-mounted wings fitted with four underwing suspension units and wingtip countermeasures pods. Up to 12 Vikhr supersonic antitank missiles can be mounted on the helicopter's two underwing external stores. The laser beamriding Vikhr missile is stated as having a target hit probability close to one, against a tank at a range of up to 8 km, and the capability of penetrating all types of armour including active armour up to 900 mm thick.

The Ka-50 is armed with a 2A42 quick-firing 30-mm gun which has an unrestricted azimuth and elevation range mounting for use against airborne or ground targets. The gun is equipped with 460 rounds of ammunition, two types being carried, high-fragmentation and explosive incendiary rounds and armour-piercing rounds. The pilot selects the type of ammunition in flight. The weight of the ammunition is 0.39 kg each round, the muzzle velocity is 980 m/s and the range is up to 4 km. The gun provides an angular firing accuracy of 2 to 4 mrad.

AVIONICS

Flight systems include inertial navigation system (INS), autopilot and head-up display (HUD). Sensors include FLIR (forward-looking infrared) and terrain-following radar.

COUNTERMEASURES

Ka-50 is fitted with radar warning receiver, electronic warfare system and chaff and flare dispenser.

ENGINES

The Ka-50 is powered by two TV3-117VMA turboshafts engines each providing 2,200 horsepower. The engines are placed on either side of the fuselage to enhance the combat survivability. The helicopter also has an auxiliary power unit (APU) for self-contained operation.

The KA-50 is single seated, which means the workload for the pilot is high, he needs to maneuver and operate the weapon systems without the aid of an CP/G, the pilot needs to concentrate on both, flying and fighting.

This is why Kamov also did an 2 seated version; the KA-52:

The dual rotor system is told to be unreliable, at least by the MIL design bureau. As the MIL helicopter plant is in direct competition with Kamov, this statement is likely to be biased.

[WhoCares 0]

btw: anybody tried to kill the pilot with M16, M21 and/or M2? In game this is, of course

[shadow 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Satchel @ July 02 2002,14:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The dual rotor system is told to be unreliable, at least by the MIL design bureau. As the MIL helicopter plant is in direct competition with Kamov, this statement is likely to be biased.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not 100% sure that that is just a lie from MIL.

Take a look at the mast that holds the rotors and its gears. It's quite tall and therefor very much exposed to all kinds of projectiles and schrapnels.

I have'nt studied the twin-rotor technologi that much so I can't say anything for sure, but I think MIL has a point. After all, it ain't that many other twin-rotor choppers in the world.

[Badgerboy 0]

Just because is an innovation doesn't mean its a poor design. Besides, the elimination of the tail rotor would make up for that failing anyway. This would eliminate weight, plus one of the most vunerable parts of a helicopter, whilst improving on stability and speed.

I think Kamov have outdone themselves with this helo.

[Kasatka 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RPG @ July 01 2002,05:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">An all these NATO Addons!

Mi-1

Mi-2

Mi-4

Mi-6

Mi-8

Mi-28 Havoc

Mi-40

Ka-25 Hormone (Not Kidding)

Ka-27

Ka-31 (Radar)

Ka-32 Helix

Ka-58 (New Stelth One Comeing Out In 2008)

One Day Over The Shaterd Skys Of Everon American Helicopers Will Check In But Wont Check Out <span id='postcolor'>

My dear friend RPG,

The Ka-58 "Black Ghost" is just a toy.

A cool looking 1:72 plastic modelling kit made by "Zvezda".

All the features of the model were agreed by the Kamov OKB and Federal Security Service (as published by MK http://www.mk.ru/ ).

[Benze 0]

It's a great innovation...however the point has been made that must be addressed, what if a single small arm hits the rotor shaft, much less a 12.7 blasting away at it? It will be critically damaged. And you can hit it from all angles, unlike the tail rotor.

About the whole NATO-Russian equipment thing, NATO/US uses a whole bunch of equpment, but Russia really only has the Hind. What else do they extensively use?

[LBGS_Stewart 0]

sence you put it like that Benze it dont really matter about the tail roter. because eather way with a dual counter rotating roter and and single rotater its going to go down anyways. just like any hellicopter if the main roter stops it drops the tail roter is only there to counter act for the tourke.

[EchoFive USMC 0]

You guys crack me up with the debate about BIS 'downgrading' Russian gear when compared with NATO counterparts..

Admittedly, of late, Russian gear has improved dramatically, but those of us old enough to remember and serve at the time when the Bear was our enemy know the following to be true:

1) Pact forces outnumbered us man for man and unit for unit down the line, particularly with tanks, for the 45 year span of the cold war.

2) NATO, particulary the US, recognized the only viable way we could counter these sheer numbers was with weapons, equipment, training, and tactics of a superior quality to Pact counterparts.

3) The largest fear NATO had during the Cold war, particulary the later stages, was that money spent on qualitative improvements to our warfighting systems would not be able to counter Pact numbers.

There was never a question that helo for helo, fighter for fighter, tank for tank, we had superior gear, particulary in the later stages (post '80), when Reagan's ball-busting DoD budgets for R&D and procurement were hitting their stride. These same Defense budgets played heavily in the eventual economic collapse of the Soviet Union. This belief held up to scrutiny everytime we were able to get our hands on a captured piece of gear and tear it down.

Anyone remember (late 60's/early 70's if memory serves) the MiG-25 the Russian pilot defected and flew to Japan with?

At the time, the MiG-25 was feared greatly by SAC..We got our hands on it, stripped it down, and found its avionics suite to comprised of 50's era Vacuum tube technology gear.

Its airframe and engines were heavy, comprised mostly of titanium, not the high strength, low-weight alloys and composites we had under R&D, and not far from deploying in operational aircraft, at the time.

There are other examples from other times and wars..F86 vs Mig15 in Korea, Abrams vs T72/74 series in Desert Storm, and the various Israeli wars, where the Israeli's used NATO gear and the Arabs all had French/Russian gear.

There are numerous other examples I could cite with other aircraft, armor, helos, etc, but for brevity's sake (lol), on the whole, I think BIS has done a decent job representing the qualitative differences in NATO and Pact gear.

IMO, If you seek play balance in online multiplay, then urge your favorite mapmaker to represent the resource/tactical situation the way it was, numbers in favor of the Sovs.

THAT will give you the play balance you seek.

[RPG 0]

Kasatka... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

*cries* NOOO!!! how can this be? *scarcasm* I dont care what you say Kasatka To me i didnt see anything  

I never said that BIS is downgradeing Russian Stuff its just that NATO has more stuff then East and When you have the choics of many helicopters you have More Stratagy Like Scouting Helicopters that could laser things for helifires or the choice of diffrant "Attack Helicopters" With east its only Transport/Support or Attack/Tank Killers... mi-17 and mi-24

Evey Time I am in a tank On East I am afraid of Well Trained Guys Of 4 2 In OH-84 For Laser Targiting and a AH-64 to attack me with Hellfires... But on west i am safe becasue i can shoot down big ass helicopters that i can see from faraway

With Many choices you have more tactical jobs for West

that are deadly...

For the east we have not many choices so people practice shooting down both of our helicopters becasue they dont have to vary on what vehical and how to shoot it down also its so easy becase there both big and slow making them almost the same to shoot down.

Dont give me this "more people on east" No one likes the east anymore becasue in multiplayer they already have stragetys to shoot us down befor we can attack Air land and sea we have no vehical cohesian.