Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)

[vegeta897 13]

read. carefully.

i said, the weapon sway is good. do u need further clarification?

It's good with a cone of fire. Arma 3 does not have a cone of fire outside of the weapon's own inherit accuracy, so your comparison is meaningless if you choose to ignore a major factor in the firing mechanics. If AA didn't have a cone of fire it would be far too easy to hit targets. You can't just compare these two systems without taking all factors into account. Arma 3's sway makes up for the fact that there is no artificial inaccuracy provided by the shooter. The shooter is actually capable of overcoming the sway, much like real life, and unlike AA's RNG.

but since u keep mentioning about the "cone of fire", i will address this. if u have fired a rifle before, u would know that BI's implementation of not using at least a small cone of fire, is not highly realistic. in fact, it is highly unrealistic. just like the lack of weapon supports in this game.

in real life, for your rounds to land on target, u will first need to "neutralise" the zeroing of the previous user and then zero your weapon with a canadian bull target. not just up/down, but also left/right, according to each person's preferences when they're using iron sights.

Proper zeroing has absolutely nothing to do with the weapon's inherit barrel dispersion. If you think mis-calibrated sights should be represented in Arma 3 with an RNG cone of fire, I disagree strongly. That doesn't even make sense, because it would be consistent inaccuracy as opposed to randomly dispersed in a circle.

in addition, there are fundamentals of marksmanship that must not be skimped on in order to land the shot. they are: pressure of the rifle butt on your shoulder, weapon cant, breath control (which is exaggerated by BI), and trigger squeeze. a tired person may not land his round on target at longer distances (100m to 300m) at any stance even when the sight picture is on target because of these factors. when it comes to pistols, it also requires the person to somewhat anticipate the recoil when firing the weapon because of the lack of support from the shoulder.

also, just because your sight is at the same point, does not mean that there will only be one hole in your target because all your rounds went through the same hole. in fact, if u see one hole, it means that u hit the target only once.

the "cone of fire" in real life is affected by marksmanship fundamentals, fatigue, stance, supported/non-supported, movement speed, injury, and suppression. not by a higher ranking person (which is unrealistic in AA, but i get that they're trying to make ppl stick as a team).

It is impossible to recreate all of these things in a videogame that uses a simple mouse and keyboard to control, without feeling incredibly disjointed from the very thing it's trying to recreate. Arma 3 accounts for all the difficulty of marksmanship by exaggerating sway, and America's Army does it by using an RNG cone of fire. Arma has always done it this way, and I hope that never changes, because I much prefer it to rolling the dice based on arbitrary factors.

for longer ranges (beyond 300m). advanced marksmanship comes into play. the factors include wind, humidity, temperature, and aiming off when the target moves. granted, i do not have any experience shooting at targets that far so BI should get the opinions of real snipers for that. however, sniper skills are not required now to be a fantastic shot because there is a computer system that would make anyone an instant sniper. it is disappointing that BI left this system out of their 2035 game.

I'd like to see these environmental factors in the ballistics too, but this is getting off the topic.

[Ristar 10]

It's good with a cone of fire. Arma 3 does not have a cone of fire outside of the weapon's own inherit accuracy, so your comparison is meaningless if you choose to ignore a major factor in the firing mechanics. If AA didn't have a cone of fire it would be far too easy to hit targets. You can't just compare these two systems without taking all factors into account. Arma 3's sway makes up for the fact that there is no artificial inaccuracy provided by the shooter. The shooter is actually capable of overcoming the sway, much like real life, and unlike AA's RNG.

Proper zeroing has absolutely nothing to do with the weapon's inherit barrel dispersion. If you think mis-calibrated sights should be represented in Arma 3 with an RNG cone of fire, I disagree strongly. That doesn't even make sense, because it would be consistent inaccuracy as opposed to randomly dispersed in a circle.

It is impossible to recreate all of these things in a videogame that uses a simple mouse and keyboard to control, without feeling incredibly disjointed from the very thing it's trying to recreate. Arma 3 accounts for all the difficulty of marksmanship by exaggerating sway, and America's Army does it by using an RNG cone of fire. Arma has always done it this way, and I hope that never changes, because I much prefer it to rolling the dice based on arbitrary factors.

I'd like to see these environmental factors in the ballistics too, but this is getting off the topic.

i stated the zeroing part because i am assuming the person i am responding to has absolutely zero knowledge about anything regarding rifles, for the benefit of anyone that has absolutely zero knowledge. therefore, i state everything that has to do with accuracy from the start to the end, as best as i can, within the range of 300m.

the "artificial inaccuracy" in AA is actually better. it is easier to sight the target (like in real life), but whether u hit it or not depends on a variety of factors that i have mentioned. the problem is only how large or small the cone is.

a fatigued person should have a shot grouping with a nonsensical number, while a fresh shooter should have a tight grouping.

the accuracy can be further enhanced with the use of scopes and weapon supports, whether it is bipods or resting it on a bag.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Ristar

[vegeta897 13]

but whether u hit it or not depends on a variety of factors that i have mentioned.

But see, it doesn't. Those factors are not recreated in the game. They are made up for by a random cone of fire. Arma 3 makes up for them with exaggerated sway.

a fatigued person should have a shot grouping with a nonsensical number, while a fresh shooter should have a tight grouping.

You do in Arma too. More sway results in less accurate fire, on average. The only difference is that someone who is skilled can be more accurate than another person with the same fatigue level, because they're not at the mercy of an arbitrarily sized RNG cone. They can actually pull off the occasional well-placed shot if they time it right. I think this is a much more interesting way to represent the real-life factors than a simple dice roll.

the accuracy can be further enhanced with the use of scopes and weapon supports, whether it is bipods or resting it on a bag.

Arma needs bipods and resting, but the same thing I said above still applies here. Scopes and weapon resting with mods do increase your ability to shoot more accurately in Arma. Not by artificially decreasing a cone of fire, but by reducing the sway, thus making it easier to make accurate shots.

Both methods are an attempt to represent real life factors in a video game. If you prefer the expanding cone of fire, I can't change your mind about that. I just think Arma's method is much less abstract, since you can actually get better at dealing with things like fatigue and instability, as you can in real life. In AA you can't get better at RNG.

[Ristar 10]

But see, it doesn't. Those factors are not recreated in the game. They are made up for by a random cone of fire. Arma 3 makes up for them with exaggerated sway.

You do in Arma too. More sway results in less accurate fire, on average. The only difference is that someone who is skilled can be more accurate than another person with the same fatigue level, because they're not at the mercy of an arbitrarily sized RNG cone. They can actually pull off the occasional well-placed shot if they time it right. I think this is a much more interesting way to represent the real-life factors than a simple dice roll.

Arma needs bipods and resting, but the same thing I said above still applies here. Scopes and weapon resting with mods do increase your ability to shoot more accurately in Arma. Not by artificially decreasing a cone of fire, but by reducing the sway, thus making it easier to make accurate shots.

Both methods are an attempt to represent real life factors in a video game. If you prefer the expanding cone of fire, I can't change your mind about that. I just think Arma's method is much less abstract, since you can actually get better at dealing with things like fatigue and instability, as you can in real life. In AA you can't get better at RNG.

the thing is, when u aim your rifle at the target and fire, it is really a dice roll. whether u hit or not depends on the marksmanship fundamentals, fatigue level, stance and supported/unsupported, etc. it is more important to keep your target sighted and keep trying by triggering on semi auto rapidly. but lets agree to disagree.

TMR is really buggy for me. i get stuck in the wall/stone after resting on it, and reloading with the bipods down will reduce my magazine count but not reload the weapon. subsequent reloads will just keep reducing the magazine count. i have to manually open the inventory and change the magazines for it to revert to correct operation. cant really do that easily while getting shot back. the trick is to remember to get rid of the bipods before reloading, and then extend the bipods again.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Ristar

[Jona33 51]

TMR is really buggy for me. i get stuck in the wall/stone after resting on it, and reloading with the bipods down will reduce my magazine count but not reload the weapon. subsequent reloads will just keep reducing the magazine count. i have to manually open the inventory and change the magazines for it to revert to correct operation. cant really do that easily while getting shot back. the trick is to remember to get rid of the bipods before reloading, and then extend the bipods again.

The magazine bug isn't TMR, I've experienced it to and I don't use TMR. Out of curiosity what other mods are you running? (I also use VTS for weapon resting, never had any issues with it except you often end up having a reload animation played twice when reloading in rested position).

[Ristar 10]

The magazine bug isn't TMR, I've experienced it to and I don't use TMR. Out of curiosity what other mods are you running? (I also use VTS for weapon resting, never had any issues with it except you often end up having a reload animation played twice when reloading in rested position).

awww crap. THAT wasnt caused by TMR?

running:

@[Drakeziel] SpecOps Camo

@ASDG_Attachments

@ASDG_JR

@ASR_AI3

@CBA_A3

@dfs_visiblecrosshairs

@DynamicCoverSystem

@Escape Stratis VAS

@JSRS2.2

@Low Grass

@m107

@mas

@mcc_sandbox

@RAM

@tmr-cso

[Jona33 51]

We share MCC, CBA and JSRS. Most likely it isn't JSRS so it's probably caused by MCC or CBA. I'll have a go at actually reliably producing the bug so it can be checked.

[roshnak 41]

i stated the zeroing part because i am assuming the person i am responding to has absolutely zero knowledge about anything regarding rifles, for the benefit of anyone that has absolutely zero knowledge. therefore, i state everything that has to do with accuracy from the start to the end, as best as i can, within the range of 300m.

That was a dumb thing to assume.

the thing is, when u aim your rifle at the target and fire, it is really a dice roll.

Within effective ranges for a given weapon, it is absolutely not a dice roll. Bullets go where the barrel is pointing (more or less -- there will be some dispersion based on ammunition load, barrel length, etc., but this will generally not come into play except at extreme ranges), and are then acted upon by environmental factors like wind and gravity (and other stuff if you want to get real complicated). All of your "marksmanship fundamentals" stuff affects where the barrel is pointing.

it is more important to keep your target sighted and keep trying by triggering on semi auto rapidly.

What?

Edited November 22, 2014 by roshnak

[Ristar 10]

That was a dumb thing to assume.

Within effective ranges for a given weapon, it is absolutely not a dice roll. Bullets go where the barrel is pointing (more or less -- there will be some dispersion based on ammunition load, barrel length, etc., but this will generally not come into play except at extreme ranges), and are then acted upon by environmental factors like wind and gravity (and other stuff if you want to get real complicated). All of your "marksmanship fundamentals" stuff affects where the barrel is pointing.

What?

it is not a dice roll... alright then. please fire 30 rounds at a target 100m - 300m away from the same position and make sure all your rounds go through the same hole. until u can accomplish this feat, i will hold onto the dice roll thing, thank you very much.

next, fire all 30 rounds at a target 100m - 300m away while breaking all the marksmanship fundamentals, and try to hit the target and get a good grouping on the target.

if u have read my very simple English post properly, u would have known that i have said that advanced marksmanship is for targets beyond the 300m range.

and, as i have said in very simple English, it is more important to keep the sights on target and shoot, than to do it arma style. first, zoom in and try to sight the weapon when the thing moves like u r drunk, fire one shot, try to sight the target again after the recoil and try to compensate the thing like u r drunk, and fire again, etc.

btw, if i do not have enough reason to assume such a "dumb thing", i would not have.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Ristar

[alsanjuro 20]

The unfortunate thing is this will not change cause someone at BIS who has no idea what weapons feel and behave thinks to give us this sway and inertia is fantastic. It will never get tweaked as from previous issues that have been around for years. The other thing is you will try to argue your point only to be crushed by people who love unrealistic weapons do not want things changed. For me i found a solution and its this mod http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26266

In real life if i had same issues as what arma 3 you would be dead on the first fight. I find it interesting that every video that is demonstrating that inertia is fine are all shooting from a non moving position (standing in one spot). What i have found out that this mechanic has doesnt have that much impact for those who are playing 3rd person since by some miracle if you dont look down the sight and just use hip fire you dont get much inertia and sway and sometime none at all which is fantastic for 3rd person people. I find it interesting that no one asked for this instead of improving the bugs and fix things. I feel that it was forced onto people. It is interesting that there are more and more people that are finding these mechanics frustrating try walking for a few step and look down the sight and your weapon tends to bounce.

[Ristar 10]

The unfortunate thing is this will not change cause someone at BIS who has no idea what weapons feel and behave thinks to give us this sway and inertia is fantastic. It will never get tweaked as from previous issues that have been around for years. The other thing is you will try to argue your point only to be crushed by people who love unrealistic weapons do not want things changed. For me i found a solution and its this mod http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26266

In real life if i had same issues as what arma 3 you would be dead on the first fight. I find it interesting that every video that is demonstrating that inertia is fine are all shooting from a non moving position (standing in one spot). What i have found out that this mechanic has doesnt have that much impact for those who are playing 3rd person since by some miracle if you dont look down the sight and just use hip fire you dont get much inertia and sway and sometime none at all which is fantastic for 3rd person people. I find it interesting that no one asked for this instead of improving the bugs and fix things. I feel that it was forced onto people. It is interesting that there are more and more people that are finding these mechanics frustrating try walking for a few step and look down the sight and your weapon tends to bounce.

thank u for introducing the mod. ah, bouncing weapon. that's the so called "weapon inertia" eh?

i never understand why people would want to play in 3rd person. it is unrealistic, and people play ARMA to get a realistic gaming experience... no matter how unrealistic it is.

in addition, i find that it is very funny and unfortunate that people would argue that ARMA 3 is realistic/authentic just from the vehicle models and not look at the functionality of said vehicles.

imo, these people should all go to the range, put a few thousand rounds downrange in combat drills (prone, shoot, run 50m, prone, shoot, etc etc, at last 50m, shoot while standing) and come back and play ARMA and compare how (un)realistic it is.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Ristar

[vegeta897 13]

The unfortunate thing is this will not change cause someone at BIS who has no idea what weapons feel and behave thinks to give us this sway and inertia is fantastic. It will never get tweaked as from previous issues that have been around for years. The other thing is you will try to argue your point only to be crushed by people who love unrealistic weapons do not want things changed.

You could try actually posting a compelling argument instead of demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of the main arguments for the new sway and inertia, labeling everyone who disagrees with you as stubborn fools.

What i have found out that this mechanic has doesnt have that much impact for those who are playing 3rd person since by some miracle if you dont look down the sight and just use hip fire you dont get much inertia and sway and sometime none at all which is fantastic for 3rd person people.

The crosshair in third person does not represent exactly where the gun is aiming with the sway. It would be kind of silly looking if it was constantly bouncing around. It's meant to be a rough indication of where your gun is pointed, because in real life you have a much better sense of this. When you want to actually see exactly where your sights are, you go into irons/scope.

I find it interesting that no one asked for this instead of improving the bugs and fix things. I feel that it was forced onto people.

Give me a break. BIS isn't allowed to innovate without your permission now? And especially not while the game has bugs? We would still be playing Operation Flashpoint with better graphics if that was how BIS made games.

[mjolnir66 48]

imo, these people should all go to the range, put a few thousand rounds downrange in combat drills (prone, shoot, run 50m, prone, shoot, etc etc, at last 50m, shoot while standing) and come back and play ARMA and compare how (un)realistic it is. im not sure if civilian ranges allow ppl to run around, though.

Or, you know, you could listen to me when I say I have no problems with it, and I in fact find it painfully authentic given my personal experiences. But we'll ignore the people who not only have fired weapons on ranges and mock combat situations, but also in actual combat situations because a couple of people who have no problems shooting targets at a nice relaxed range say its not right.

Like I keep saying, put on 20 to 30kg of kit including body armour, run around for a few hours, have someone shoot at you and then tell me how inauthentic it is.

[Ristar 10]

Or, you know, you could listen to me when I say I have no problems with it, and I in fact find it painfully authentic given my personal experiences. But we'll ignore the people who not only have fired weapons on ranges and mock combat situations, but also in actual combat situations because a couple of people who have no problems shooting targets at a nice relaxed range say its not right.

Like I keep saying, put on 20 to 30kg of kit including body armour, run around for a few hours, have someone shoot at you and then tell me how inauthentic it is.

so u sway like that in combat even though u r not getting shot at yet? u dun put your weapon on top of a wall, bag, etc? u dun need to drink water? u walk like how the characters in ARMA 3 walk? your rounds will land at the exact point where u aim?

i actually have a mod (or maybe it's BI's implementation, i cant remember) that makes the sights shake a bit when getting shot at.

i have no problem with that. wat i have problem with is, how much the weapon sways when nothing's going on. therefore, the weapon range suggestion is apt.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Ristar

[vegeta897 13]

wat i have problem with is, how much the weapon sways when nothing's going on.

Really? I thought just before you said that there is never "nothing going on". What about all those factors you mentioned that go into firing even from a totally stable position? "pressure of the rifle butt on your shoulder, weapon cant, breath control, and trigger squeeze." These factors are accounted for by swaying the weapon. They cannot be recreated 1:1 in a video game with a mouse and keyboard. America's Army and other games recreate them with a cone of fire, Arma uses actual movement of the weapon (because that's ultimately what the problem is in real life, the weapon misaligning).

I've already said this to you before and you haven't given me a proper response.

This thread is for actual constructive discussions and feedback. Not for calling people who disagree with you "fanboys", ignoring their arguments, and whining about BIS's decisions.

[Ristar 10]

Really? I thought just before you said that there is never "nothing going on". What about all those factors you mentioned that go into firing even from a totally stable position? "pressure of the rifle butt on your shoulder, weapon cant, breath control, and trigger squeeze." These factors are accounted for by swaying the weapon. They cannot be recreated 1:1 in a video game with a mouse and keyboard. America's Army and other games recreate them with a cone of fire, Arma uses actual movement of the weapon (because that's ultimately what the problem is in real life, the weapon misaligning).

I've already said this to you before and you haven't given me a proper response.

This thread is for actual constructive discussions and feedback. Not for calling people who disagree with you "fanboys", ignoring their arguments, and whining about BIS's decisions.

i have actually responded to u, but u seem to have missed it.

the thing is, when u aim your rifle at the target and fire, it is really a dice roll. whether u hit or not depends on the marksmanship fundamentals, fatigue level, stance and supported/unsupported, etc. it is more important to keep your target sighted and keep trying by triggering on semi auto rapidly. but lets agree to disagree.

if your weapon misaligns, do your eyes misalign as well?

i have just looked up wat "weapon inertia" is by watching some YouTube vids, and i'd say that weapon misalignment has a similar effect to that, than the crazy sway.

as i have also said, it is more important to keep the target sighted and keep trying to hit him, than to let the guy get out of the sight altogether due to the sway. maybe the hold breath button can also be used to align the weapon and hold breath, or maybe they can use another key. of course, if this is too complicated/tedious, then the simplest solution is a cone of fire.

besides, even IF everything is perfect in real life, there would still be a cone of fire. the only problem is how large/small it'd be.

but, wat i know is, when your weapon misaligns, your eyes do not misalign as well.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Ristar

[vegeta897 13]

i have actually responded to u, but u seem to have missed it.

Yeah, you agreed to disagree, and then you throw the argument back in my face by calling me and everyone else a fanboy for disagreeing. What kind of tactic is that?

if your weapon misaligns, do your eyes misalign as well?

i have just looked up wat "weapon inertia" is by watching some YouTube vids, and i'd say that weapon misalignment has a similar effect to that, than the crazy sway.

as i have also said, it is more important to keep the target sighted and keep trying to hit him. maybe the hold breath button can also be used to align the weapon and hold breath, or maybe they can use another key.

but, wat i know is, when your weapon misaligns, your eyes do not misalign as well.

I have no idea what eye misalignment you're talking about. The gun becomes misaligned with your eyes when weapon inertia takes effect, because you're moving it quickly from side to side. This is meant to prevent people from doing a 180 and instantly being able to acquire a target and fire. In real life you would not be able to do a 180 degree turn in half a second and be instantly ready to fire without any preparation. During normal shooting, weapon inertia has no effect. Your sights stay aligned with your eyes, but they move around the screen.

Those factors are not a dice roll because a shooter could become more adept at dealing with those factors. You cannot become more adept at rolling dice. Arma 3's method allows for people to get better at countering the sway. This means you can get better at accurate shooting as you could in real life. A cone of fire does not allow that.

[Ristar 10]

Yeah, you agreed to disagree, and then you throw the argument back in my face by calling me and everyone else a fanboy for disagreeing. What kind of tactic is that?

I have no idea what eye misalignment you're talking about. The gun becomes misaligned with your eyes when weapon inertia takes effect, because you're moving it quickly from side to side. This is meant to prevent people from doing a 180 and instantly being able to acquire a target and fire. In real life you would not be able to do a 180 degree turn in half a second and be instantly ready to fire without any preparation. During normal shooting, weapon inertia has no effect. Your sights stay aligned with your eyes, but they move around the screen.

Those factors are not a dice roll because a shooter could become more adept at dealing with those factors. You cannot become more adept at rolling dice. Arma 3's method allows for people to get better at countering the sway. This means you can get better at accurate shooting as you could in real life. A cone of fire does not allow that.

wat im trying to say is, just because your weapon is misaligned, does not make your view shake/sway like that in real life. it would have an effect similar to weapon inertia, where u can actually see the sights become misaligned, and players should be able to correct it when they see it, or something to that effect.

besides, all shooters, no matter how good they are, can not get all their rounds to pass through the first bullet hole. therefore, there is a cone of fire in real life. therefore, it's akin to rolling a dice. the only difference is, how large or small the cone of fire is, depends on many factors that i have mentioned earlier. so the easiest solution, would be a cone of fire. the slightly more difficult solution would be to press a key to align the sights. the even more difficult and troublesome solution (though it is easy irl), would be to press a key, while moving the mouse, to realign the sights. the 3rd one would be a real pain, though.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Ristar

[vegeta897 13]

wat im trying to say is, just because your weapon is misaligned, does not make your view shake/sway like that in real life.

Nobody said it did. It's not supposed to look like real life. It's supposed to give results that are in line with how difficult it is to shoot in real life. Shooting in Arma 3 without any sway is dead easy. The sway amount before this change was also too easy. Now it's challenging and places an emphasis on fatigue management and stability.

besides, all shooters, no matter how good they are, can not get all their rounds to pass through the first bullet hole.

Can you do it in Arma?

therefore, there is a cone of fire in real life.

No, there is not a cone in real life, because it's not actually random. You've completely ignored the last paragraph of my post. Putting 30 rounds down range in Arma will result naturally in a cone of fire, because it's difficult to be totally accurate with the sway. This natural result comes about from the shooter's inability to perfectly counteract the weapon sway, just as a shooter in real life can't perfectly counteract the tiny factors that go into fine marksmanship. I prefer this naturally achieved result than the videogame deciding that my cone of fire is this large, and using RNG to determine how close or far each shot lands to where I'm aiming. RNG is a frustrating experience because no matter how carefully I focus, it makes no difference at all. You cannot tell me that the same applies in real life. Shooting in games with cones of fire amounts to little more than placing your crosshairs on a target and firing until RNG decides to give you an accurate enough shot. Shooting in Arma requires actually putting forth effort to achieve that accuracy. If you don't prefer that, fine, but don't try to call me a fanboy or say it is more unrealistic than an arbitrary cone of fire is.

[Ristar 10]

Nobody said it did. It's not supposed to look like real life. It's supposed to give results that are in line with how difficult it is to shoot in real life. Shooting in Arma 3 without any sway is dead easy. The sway amount before this change was also too easy. Now it's challenging and places an emphasis on fatigue management and stability.

Can you do it in Arma?

No, there is not a cone in real life, because it's not actually random. You've completely ignored the last paragraph of my post. Putting 30 rounds down range in Arma will result naturally in a cone of fire, because it's difficult to be totally accurate with the sway. This natural result comes about from the shooter's inability to perfectly counteract the weapon sway, just as a shooter in real life can't perfectly counteract the tiny factors that go into fine marksmanship. I prefer this naturally achieved result than the videogame deciding that my cone of fire is this large, and using RNG to determine how close or far each shot lands to where I'm aiming. RNG is a frustrating experience because no matter how carefully I focus, it makes no difference at all. You cannot tell me that the same applies in real life. Shooting in games with cones of fire amounts to little more than placing your crosshairs on a target and firing until RNG decides to give you an accurate enough shot. Shooting in Arma requires actually putting forth effort to achieve that accuracy. If you don't prefer that, fine, but don't try to call me a fanboy or say it is more unrealistic than an arbitrary cone of fire is.

i understand wat u r saying. however, the issue with the sway is, the sway is bad enough that the player loses sight of the target, especially when scoped, which is really a big no no. when in real life, the worst u can do is a iron sight/crosshair that moves, but u will still have the target perfectly centered in your view, and can sight the target again effortlessly.

since players can not actually open their non-master eye to see the situation in game, because the supposed crazy swaying sight is wat the master eye sees, the player actually loses the sense of the overall situation and his bearings while trying to shoot at a target, especially when using TWS.

[alsanjuro 20]

You could try actually posting a compelling argument instead of demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of the main arguments for the new sway and inertia, labeling everyone who disagrees with you as stubborn fools.

The crosshair in third person does not represent exactly where the gun is aiming with the sway. It would be kind of silly looking if it was constantly bouncing around. It's meant to be a rough indication of where your gun is pointed, because in real life you have a much better sense of this. When you want to actually see exactly where your sights are, you go into irons/scope.

Give me a break. BIS isn't allowed to innovate without your permission now? And especially not while the game has bugs? We would still be playing Operation Flashpoint with better graphics if that was how BIS made games.

So you call this innovation where stand still and when you make a very slight movement and your weapon starts to bounce. People have been asking for this to be tweaked yet BIS has been very quiet why? At the moment sway and inertia a too easily activated and for some reason if you move your weapon doesnt matter which one when you move it very quickly you dont get that much sway and inertia yet when moving it slowly produces more.

In my experience i have never seen my rifle to bounce around up to 4 inches after taking a few steps and aiming. The one thing that annoys me is when i look down ARCO, MRCO sights they tend to bounce across my screen and when i decide to hold my breath to shoot it ends up on the side of the screen and you tell me that is perfectly fine.

First time i asked for this to be tweaked straight up you get people who go you carry too much gear i am sick of it.

This needs adjusting and yet its been months without a word from BIS. Have they actually ever fired from a real weapon, because what it looks they havent and it feels like different devs made arma 2 which in a lot of ways had better mechanics for weapons and vehicles like the damage model in vehicles for one.

[vegeta897 13]

i understand wat u r saying. however, the issue with the sway is, the sway is bad enough that the player loses sight of the target, especially when scoped, which is really a big no no. when in real life, the worst u can do is a iron sight/crosshair that moves, but u will still have the target perfectly centered in your view, and can sight the target again effortlessly.

since players can not actually open their non-master eye to see the situation in game, because the supposed crazy swaying sight is wat the master eye sees, the player actually loses the sense of the overall situation and his bearings while trying to shoot at a target, especially when using TWS.

This is a fair point, and I agree that it is a downside of the system.

So you call this innovation where stand still and when you make a very slight movement and your weapon starts to bounce. People have been asking for this to be tweaked yet BIS has been very quiet why? At the moment sway and inertia a too easily activated and for some reason if you move your weapon doesnt matter which one when you move it very quickly you dont get that much sway and inertia yet when moving it slowly produces more.

Keep mentioning things like this, not the kind of stuff you posted before. If the weapon jars way too much from slight movements, that's a real problem, but it's not related to what I've been arguing about with Ristar. Keep things like calling people fanboys and questioning why BIS adds features to their games out of your reasoning, because it doesn't belong here or in any civilized discussion.

In my experience i have never seen my rifle to bounce around up to 4 inches after taking a few steps and aiming. The one thing that annoys me is when i look down ARCO, MRCO sights they tend to bounce across my screen and when i decide to hold my breath to shoot it ends up on the side of the screen and you tell me that is perfectly fine.

First time i asked for this to be tweaked straight up you get people who go you carry too much gear i am sick of it.

This needs adjusting and yet its been months without a word from BIS. Have they actually ever fired from a real weapon, because what it looks they havent and it feels like different devs made arma 2 which in a lot of ways had better mechanics for weapons and vehicles like the damage model in vehicles for one.

This is the stuff I keep seeing brought up... I'll say it for the 100th time, the visuals of how the weapon moves in the game is not supposed to match how it moves in real life. If it did, shooting would be way too easy, because the game can't recreate all the other factors that go into why it's difficult to fire perfectly accurately in real life. If you think the sway is far too difficult beyond reason (not just beyond reality, because that is intended) then I can accept that as a valid complaint.

[alsanjuro 20]

Bis pointed out that they wanna have a more authentic cause in my books it means realistic and its not. We have a mouse to control our weapons in game and at the moment without me using the mod is hard to shoot anything and makes it nauseating experience for me.

At the current state as i said before their sway and inertia is triggered too quickly and its too aggressive. When i move my weapon 45, 90, 180 degrees i get the same sway and inertia which in fact would not happen cause if you move your weapon 45 degrees it would not produce the same about of inertia as it would say at 180 degrees.

[vegeta897 13]

Bis pointed out that they wanna have a more authentic cause in my books it means realistic and its not. We have a mouse to control our weapons in game and at the moment without me using the mod is hard to shoot anything and makes it nauseating experience for me.

At the current state as i said before their sway and inertia is triggered too quickly and its too aggressive. When i move my weapon 45, 90, 180 degrees i get the same sway and inertia which in fact would not happen cause if you move your weapon 45 degrees it would not produce the same about of inertia as it would say at 180 degrees.

This is all valid feedback, I would not have replied to you if this was all you said.

[roshnak 41]

when in real life, the worst u can do is a iron sight/crosshair that moves, but u will still have the target perfectly centered in your view

Unless you are using 2D scopes, this is exactly what happens in Arma 3.