Advanced Ballistics (WIP)

[DGeorge85 10]

I want to say awesome job on this content, as I've been waiting for a long time to have some "real" ballistics in a game. The realism factor of coming up with an actual firing solution adds so much to the experience and creates a reason to have sniper/spotter teams for multiplay...Now, if only more people used it. I've been asking if anyone else uses it for the past week anytime I join a server and haven't found another person yet. :rolleyes:

Quick question, I've been using v2.5 and while I'm assuming Advanced Ballistics and the ATragMX are 100% separated, I wanted to make sure any bullet profiles I've added/edited in the ATragMX addon will remain in tact before I replace 2.5 with 2.6.

I could probably ask 10 pages of questions, as I've only been playing a short while, and found your addon just last week (I'm fully intrigued), but I'll keep it short, haha. I have spent hours on your 360 course testing it out this past week, and rather than going in depth into my results, I'll simplify it into just one question I have which is:

Does your ATragMX addon use actual ballistic calculations that you are then trying to simulate in the game by programming the effects onto the bullets, or is the calculator based on the same exact math you have incorporated into bullet flight, and if so what is your point of reference for accuracy?

On a side note, if that is the real Tibor, what an honor to have him using and commenting on your content. I've also watched all of his videos. The man knows his stuff, and his generosity and dedication with the sniper 101 series is astounding. A huge thumbs up to the both of you.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Thanks for the update, Ruthberg - I'll let you know if I run into any other errors.

[ruthberg 7]

Feel free to ask as many questions as you like.

Now, if only more people used it. I've been asking if anyone else uses it for the past week anytime I join a server and haven't found another person yet. :rolleyes:

AdvancedBallistics is soon going to be part of CSE. This will hopefully alleviate the problem.

Quick question, I've been using v2.5 and while I'm assuming Advanced Ballistics and the ATragMX are 100% separated, I wanted to make sure any bullet profiles I've added/edited in the ATragMX addon will remain in tact before I replace 2.5 with 2.6.

Your bullet profiles will remain intact.

I could probably ask 10 pages of questions

If you think they are of interest for others as well, then ask here, otherwise don't be afraid to ask via PM.

Does your ATragMX addon use actual ballistic calculations that you are then trying to simulate in the game by programming the effects onto the bullets, or is the calculator based on the same exact math you have incorporated into bullet flight, and if so what is your point of reference for accuracy?

Short answer: They use the exact same math and perfect input data will lead to perfect output data. However, it is not always easy to gather perfect input data.

Long answer: Both, the bullet trajectory and the ATragMX firing solutions are based on the same simulation model. The position of the bullet is calculated iteratively. Spin drift, Coriolis- and Eötvös effect, however, are not yet taken into account by the ATragMX.

The accuracy of the firing solutions generated by the ATragMX software is limited by the correctness of the input data and the inherit accuracy of the gun. AdvancedBallistics also tries to simulate the erratic effects that occur during transonic flight.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Ruthberg

[DGeorge85 10]

Short answer: They use the exact same math and perfect input data will lead to perfect output data. However, it is not always easy to gather perfect input data.

Long answer: Both, the bullet trajectory and the ATragMX firing solutions are based on the same simulation model. The position of the bullet is calculated iteratively. Spin drift, Coriolis- and Eötvös effect, however, are not yet taken into account by the ATragMX.

The accuracy of the firing solutions generated by the ATragMX software is limited by the correctness of the input data and the inherit accuracy of the gun. AdvancedBallistics also tries to simulate the erratic effects that occur during transonic flight.

I actually noticed the transonic wobble when I enabled bullet traces, and have to admit I giggled. It's awesome to see someone with obvious experience working on such an addon, taking the time to incorporate things which others might overlook. I'm looking forward to coriolis, spin drift, etc. being added in.

The reason I ask is because I noticed different profiles give different firing solutions, even with all input data the same, suggesting there are underlying attributes for the bullet. If that is the case, we can only get so close unless we dive into the root of the addon to add and edit profiles, not simply creating one from within the calculator, correct? Creating one in the calculator defaults to the 7.62x51 and low and behold I've achieved really accurate profiles for guns like the HK417 20" from the r3f pack, and the M24 from the NATO pack out to 800-1000m which is more than acceptable in my eyes for this specific round, but I haven't yet gotten anything to match up at all ranges for any extreme long range platforms, .408 or .50, including the vanilla rifles, using default or created profiles in the calculator.

Things seem to fall apart after a certain distance, where no reasonable amount of input error could account for how low or high the solution is at extreme range. So far my favorite is the M107 from the r3f armes pack, and I can achieve accurate solutions out to 1000m or so, but after that it begins to hit increasingly low to the point of being multiple mils off at 1600m. If I adjust so that it's spot on, then of course I hit way too high at shorter ranges. I want to say I couldn't get the vanilla .50cal to match up very well either in fudging with the BC, and the same goes for the .408. Is there an explanation for this, or do I need to mess around with it some more?

One last question for this post. Are the wind calculations based on simple full/half values, or sin/cos?

/Edit: I just went in with the .408 and to my surprise made a first round hit at 1045m in the 4 ring, pushed it out to 1395m and the first shot was in the 2 ring. Either I had a bad day the last time I tested it, or I was mixed up. This is looking like my go-to extreme range rifle until I can get the m107 sorted out.

Edited November 16, 2014 by DGeorge85

[ruthberg 7]

I'm looking forward to coriolis, spin drift, etc. being added in.

All of these effects are present in AdvancedBallistics, but I need to work on the ATragMX GUI, before I can add them to the ballistic calculator.

The reason I ask is because I noticed different profiles give different firing solutions, even with all input data the same, suggesting there are underlying attributes for the bullet.

I'll take a look at this tomorrow.

If that is the case, we can only get so close unless we dive into the root of the addon to add and edit profiles, not simply creating one from within the calculator, correct?

You can edit every aspect of the gun profiles from within the calculator. But, one of the biggest shortcomings of the current user interface is, that you have to press 'Enter' once you have modified the zero range in the gun column, to confirm the change. I hope that I can get rid of that once the GUI revamp is finished.

I've achieved really accurate profiles for guns like the HK417 20" from the r3f pack, and the M24 from the NATO pack out to 800-1000m which is more than acceptable in my eyes for this specific round, but I haven't yet gotten anything to match up at all ranges for any extreme long range platforms, .408 or .50, including the vanilla rifles, using default or created profiles in the calculator.

I have included config data for many 3rd party weapon packs, but not for all of them. The R3F pack is not yet supported, which means that the vanilla drag function is used, when you shoot their ammunition. Also keep in mind that the vanilla .50 Caliber rifle (GM6 Lynx) shoots the russian 12.7×108 mm cartridge and not the .50 BMG (12.7x99mm) cartridge.

Things seem to fall apart after a certain distance, where no reasonable amount of input error could account for how low or high the solution is at extreme range.

This is the case when ArmAs airFriction model is used instead of the 'G' drag models.

See: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?181324-Advanced-Ballistics-(WIP)&p=2799998&viewfull=1#post2799998

One last question for this post. Are the wind calculations based on simple full/half values, or sin/cos?

The wind calculation is based on 3d vector arithmetic. Up- and downward winds are theoretically supported, but not yet occurring. The head- and crosswind calculations of the Kestrel 4500 are done using sin/cos.

Edit: I just went in with the .408 and to my surprise made a first round hit at 1045m in the 4 ring

I remember having good results when shooting the .408 CheyTac bullet beyond 2000 m, due to its stable flight through the transonic region.

You can also use this as a reference: .408 CheyTac

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Here's a couple of errors - occurred while playing a custom campaign on Altis.

20:18:14 Error in expression <43.12 + AB_Temperature)); AB_Humidity = AB_Humidity * _PS1 / _PS2;}; AB_Humidi>
20:18:14   Error position: <AB_Humidity * _PS1 / _PS2;}; AB_Humidi>
20:18:14   Error Undefined variable in expression: ab_humidity
20:18:14 File advancedballistics\fnc_climate_simulation.sqf, line 133

20:18:14 Error in expression <ity select _month) / 100; AB_Humidity = AB_Humidity + AB_humidityShift; if (rai>
20:18:14   Error position: <AB_Humidity + AB_humidityShift; if (rai>
20:18:14   Error Undefined variable in expression: ab_humidity
20:18:14 File advancedballistics\fnc_climate_simulation.sqf, line 125

Popped up on mission init (briefing screen).

[Laid3acK 79]

Hi Ruthberg,

AdvancedBallistics is soon going to be part of CSE.

A beautiful addition for CSE modules and announcement for their users but i am a little anxious, this means that you will stop "AdvancedBallistics" as a stand-alone addon ?

A another question for all experts of this thread, we have a brilliant ballistic for Arma3 but what about the scope ?

Two scopes FFP 18-75x with Mil-dot reticle for the long range shooting : SOS and LRPS scope.

But i suppose that you will be agree with me, it's not a 18x mil-dot or a 75x mil-dot on our screens ?

On my 23" monitor, i estimate the mil-dot approximately as a 8x and a 30x mil-dot, do you think that is correct ?

I am very sorry for my bad english, have a good day.

[ruthberg 7]

this means that you will stop "AdvancedBallistics" as a stand-alone addon ?

No, nothing will change for standalone users. I will continue to maintain the standalone version.

A another question for all experts of this thread, we have a brilliant ballistic for Arma3 but what about the scope ?

Two scopes FFP 18-75x with Mil-dot reticle for the long range shooting : SOS and LRPS scope.

I have always kicked the scope problem down the road, but it is probably time to tackle it.

---------- Post added at 11:42 ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 ----------

@CameronMcDonald, I'll try to reproduce your errors. Are you using the latest stable version of ArmA III?

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Are you using the latest stable version of ArmA III?

Yep. The campaign is "Dying Ember", if you want to go that far into it.

[ruthberg 7]

This might be related to loading a savegame, I will investigate this further. Thanks a lot for the detailed bug report.

[Laid3acK 79]

No, nothing will change for standalone users. I will continue to maintain the standalone version.

I have always kicked the scope problem down the road, but it is probably time to tackle it.

Best news of the day !

The R3F pack is not yet supported

It would be a great addition, their 3D models are very good.

Big thanks in advance if you include that in your mod.

Sorry for my english, have a nice day.

[ruthberg 7]

Yep. The campaign is "Dying Ember", if you want to go that far into it.

Ok, I tried hard, but wasn't able to reproduce the error. Do you only get it while playing the campain?

---------- Post added at 10:25 ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 ----------

Big thanks in advance if you include that in your mod.

I'll take a look at it. There is a good chance that I will include config data for their weapon pack in the next release.

---------- Post added at 15:11 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

P.S.: Your mod is totally awesome as always! Could you kindly add another super ammo like .416 Barrett & .50 Hornady A-Max to compete with the .408 CT? that'd be wicked cool!

I will add ammo classes for both with the next release. However, we still need weapons that actually shoot those rounds. Edited November 18, 2014 by Ruthberg

[TiborasaurusRex 11]

hi Ruthberg :)

i get a feeling that the 1.34 update kinda messed up your mod especially the trajectory of .408 CT (M200) :(

Before the update, your mod was perfectly fine with the 1.32 version, all your projectiles trajectory matched my solver (Applied Ballistics) perfectly, it was always dead on...

After the update, the trajectory kinda changed, it doesn't match my solver, now it's hardly dead on even though i input all the data correctly :(

I haven't tested other bullets yet, only the .408 CT (shot it at 1600-2300 m), and i can already feel something's wrong with the ballistics...

In high-pressure areas like Altis & Stratis (970-1010 hpa), the .408 CT isn't messed up too much, it still kinda matches my solver (only 0.1-0.2 mils off, well i can live with that)

In low-pressure areas like Takistan & Zargabad (920-940 hpa), the .408 CT is messed up big time! :( sometimes the shot is too high or too low (0.3-0.5 mils different from the firing solution my solver gave me :butbut: )

maybe you guys would call me a perfectionist but at 2000 m, even 0.1 mil off means 8 inches (20 cm) off the target :(

anybody got same issue? i'm sure this happens due to the 1.34 update! everything was perfect before the update. Should i revert my game back to 1.32? and how to downgrade game version?

[ruthberg 7]

I'm running ArmA III version 1.34 (latest stable revision) and I can't reproduce what you describe. I've just shot the .408 CheyTac and compared the results with JBM Ballistics:

Input Data:

BC: 0.970 G1 (ASM)

Muzzle Velocity: 910.0 m/s

Sight Height: 3.81 cm

Wind Speed: 0 m/s

Range: 2200 m

Temperature: 12.5 °C

Pressure: 688.6 hPA

Humidity: 88.2%

Arma III (v1.34):

Drop (mil): -16.7

Remaining velocity: 479 m/s

JBM Ballistics:

Drop (mil): -17.0

Remaining velocity: 480.6 m/s

The CheyTac Intervention system is advertised to be capable of delivering sub-MOA accuracy at ranges of up to 2300 m. But that's already +/- 0.3 mil.

---------- Post added at 17:55 ---------- Previous post was at 17:43 ----------

Version 2.7 Changelog:

-Added config data for the R3F French Weapons Pack

-Added more ammo configs (.416 Barret, .50 BMG Hornady A-MAX)

A side note for advanced users:

I've also created a modified version of Trixie's Sniper/Marksman Pack that makes use of the new ammo types (the included M107s are now able to shoot .416 Barrett and .50 BMG Hornady A-MAX):

trixie_recon.pbo

config.bin

If you have a tool to modify PBOs then you can get away by only downloading the config.bin and replacing the one inside of trixie_recon.pbo.

[sonsalt6 105]

Updated mod 2.6 available at withSIX. Download now by clicking:

[Guest]

New version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

Advanced Ballistics v2.7



Community Base addons A3

================================================

We have also "connected" these pages to your account on Armaholic.

This means in the future you will be able to maintain these pages yourself if you wish to do so. Once this new feature is ready we will contact you about it and explain how things work and what options you have.

When you have any questions already feel free to PM or email me!

[TiborasaurusRex 11]

Input Data:

BC: 0.970 G1 (ASM)

Muzzle Velocity: 910.0 m/s

Sight Height: 3.81 cm

Wind Speed: 0 m/s

Range: 2200 m

Temperature: 12.5 °C

Pressure: 688.6 hPA

Humidity: 88.2%

JBM Ballistics:

Drop (mil): -17.0

Arma III (v1.34):

Drop (mil): -16.7

hmm...my solvers gave the same firing solution too (Coriolis is not taken into account though) :confused: here take a look:

"Applied Ballistics" and "Exterior Ballistics Calculator"

but are you sure the in-game bullet drop was really 16.7 mils? was the coriolis effect turned on/off? did you take the shots in Takistan? i only suffer this issue severely in Takistan (360°course mission)...

Sub-MoA (under 1 MoA) accuracy should be able to deliver 0.1-0.2 mils shot...At 2200 m, 0.3 mils means i'm already 66 cm off the target :'( at extreme ranges, it's really hard to shoot at human size target (180 cm high, 30 cm width) especially dead center when my solvers are 0.3 mils off the actual in-game bullet drop :'( the farther the range, the bigger the dispersion is :butbut:

Before the v1.34, your 408 CT was completely accurate even at subsonic ranges (beyond 2300 m) no matter what the atmospheric condition was :( The group was always tight around 0.1-0.2 mils & the in-game bullet drop always matched my solvers dead on. The .408 CT was the greatest back then :'( Now even the POI is a yellow dot not a red dot anymore lol

At first, i thought it was coz you changed something in the last version of AB, but then i rolled back to the previous AB's (where everything should be back to normal) and found out that they're all messed up too so i concluded it's not your fault, it gotta be something wrong with the v1.34 #FeelingDepressed

P.S.: forgive me for complaining too much, maybe i will try to revert my game back to 1.32 and see if everything's back to normal. i'll keep informing you...

Edited November 21, 2014 by TiborasaurusRex

[ruthberg 7]

but are you sure the in-game bullet drop was really 16.7 mils? was the coriolis effect turned on/off? did you take the shots in Takistan? i only suffer this issue severely in Takistan (360°course mission)...

Every effect expect advanced air drag was disabled and the barometric pressure was set manually to resemble conditions in Takistan.

Sub-MoA (under 1 MoA) accuracy should be able to deliver 0.1-0.2 mils shot...At 2200 m, 0.3 mils means i'm already 66 cm off the target :'( at extreme ranges, it's really hard to shoot at human size target (180 cm high, 30 cm width) especially dead center when my solvers are 0.3 mils off the actual in-game bullet drop :'( the farther the range, the bigger the dispersion is :butbut:

I agree.

P.S.: forgive me for complaining too much, maybe i will try to revert my game back to 1.32 and see if everything's back to normal. i'll keep informing you...

Don't worry, bug reports are always welcome. I will also revert back to 1.32 and look out for differences.

[TiborasaurusRex 11]

Hi Ruthberg,

It worked, bro! I reverted the game back to v1.32 and the Advanced Ballistics is completely back to normal! I've tested the .408 CT (shot it at 1600-2400 m), the bullet drop totally matches my solvers right now yihaaa!!! I strongly suggest you guys to go back to v1.32 :)

With the v1.32, Advanced Ballistics is at its finest, baby! ;)

here's one of my shot which i took in Takistan

Input Data:

BC: 0.970 G1 (ASM)

Muzzle Velocity: 902 m/s

Sight Height: 3.81 cm

Wind Speed: 0 m/s

Range: 2362 m

Temperature: 12.5 °C

Pressure: 948.8 hPA

Humidity: 35.6 %

Solvers' Bullet Drop: 25.5 mils

Arma III (v1.34) Bullet Drop: 25.5 mils

which is a Dead On!!! :bounce3: At that range, i took a 10-shot group and it's really tight around 0.1 mils :) which means v1.32 is the best for your mod \m/

Sorry i couldn't take the in-game snapshots or tape it coz i don't know how :'(

and another thing, thank you so much for adding .416 Barrett & .50 BMG A-Max :bounce3: could you kindly share their complete parameter?

and what about the 12.7x108mm? still struggling to find its complete parameter? Maybe i could help you. A guy called Dagger gave me this 12.7x108mm parameter. Perhaps you could work something out of it ;)

the BC of 12.7x108 mm is actually around 0.63

Edited November 22, 2014 by TiborasaurusRex

[wiredtiger 10]

I'm not sure if anybody has already mention this, but with the 1.34v the original way of adjusting the zero is reactivated so you can use both your mod's way (with the arrow keys) or use page up and down. I noticed that when I was first testing it out just now.

On a separate note, in your video you use a bipod. Which mod is that? I've only just now am getting into arma 3, and don't know which mods are the must have. Arma 2 had those key few that were the go to ones. Does arma 3 have any yet?

[ruthberg 7]

and another thing, thank you so much for adding .416 Barrett & .50 BMG A-Max :bounce3: could you kindly share their complete parameter?

Sure, I added them to the bullet database in the first post:

class AB_106x83mm_Ball : B_408_Ball
{
AB_caliber=0.416;
AB_bulletLength=2.089;
AB_bulletMass=398;
AB_ammoTempMuzzleVelocityShifts[]={-26.55, -25.47, -22.85, -20.12, -16.98, -12.80, -7.64, -1.53, 5.96, 15.17, 26.19};
AB_ballisticCoefficients[]={0.72};
AB_velocityBoundaries[]={};
AB_standardAtmosphere="ASM";
AB_dragModel=1;
AB_muzzleVelocities[]={960};
AB_barrelLengths[]={29};
};

class AB_127x99_Ball_AMAX : B_127x99_Ball
{
AB_caliber=0.510;
AB_bulletLength=2.540;
AB_bulletMass=750;
AB_ammoTempMuzzleVelocityShifts[]={-26.55, -25.47, -22.85, -20.12, -16.98, -12.80, -7.64, -1.53, 5.96, 15.17, 26.19};
AB_ballisticCoefficients[]={1.050};
AB_velocityBoundaries[]={};
AB_standardAtmosphere="ASM";
AB_dragModel=1;
AB_muzzleVelocities[]={860};
AB_barrelLengths[]={29};
};

---------- Post added at 10:50 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------

I'm not sure if anybody has already mention this, but with the 1.34v the original way of adjusting the zero is reactivated so you can use both your mod's way (with the arrow keys) or use page up and down. I noticed that when I was first testing it out just now.

I've never disabled the vanilla zeroing system.

On a separate note, in your video you use a bipod. Which mod is that? I've only just now am getting into arma 3, and don't know which mods are the must have.

Try VTS Simple weapon resting. Edited November 23, 2014 by Ruthberg

[TiborasaurusRex 11]

Awesome bro, you're totally the greatest \m/

what about the 12.7x108mm (B32 API)? ain't you gonna add some BC to it? i've been searching for its BC on the net but i got nothing except that Dagger's table...0.63 sounds pretty solid for a 12.7x108mm :)

class B_127x108_Ball

{

typicalSpeed=840;

AB_caliber=0.511;

AB_bulletLength=2.520;

AB_bulletMass=745;

AB_ammoTempMuzzleVelocityShifts[]={-26.55, -25.47, -22.85, -20.12, -16.98, -12.80, -7.64, -1.53, 5.96, 15.17, 26.19};

AB_muzzleVelocities[]={840};

AB_barrelLengths[]={28.7};

Edited November 23, 2014 by TiborasaurusRex

[ruthberg 7]

I'll add it with the next release.

[brainslush 13]

Have you ever considered pushing the time critical and heavy computations to an external program which you access via a .dll?

This most likely would increase the computation speed by a significant factor since the VM of Arma is slower than a compiled C/C++ or Assembly code. Further this would give the advantage that you can use another CPU core to calculate the ballistics since Arma doesn't really access multiple cores.

[tortuosit 486]

What? Where? Where is this Android app? :)

EDIT: Ah I see, it's in the play store... I was under the impression Ruth developed this as well...