What features are fundamental to the Marksman DLC? (no speculation)

[Jona33 51]

no not quite, you have to write code to the console to have access to it in most cases, thats the reason i make this suggestion, its not quitwe litterally a loadout menu yet.

Do you mean in the briefing before a mission?

[Brisse 78]

no not quite, you have to write code to the console to have access to it in most cases, thats the reason i make this suggestion, its not quitwe litterally a loadout menu yet.

They can't make it automatically appear in every single mission. That would break most missions.

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

For Marksman DLC... i just realized, CSAT got a Rahim because they were using the ABR... But now NATO has the ABR, and AAF have the ABR as well... So i was thinking, the AAF deserve their own DMR. What about this beautiful beast to go with the AAF's LRPS scope.

A modern version of one of the best DMR's around. the SKS.

[fabio_chavez 103]

Do you mean in the briefing before a mission?

-before a mission, during a mission, while dead... do i REALLY have to give examples for what a loadout menu is good for?!

*hint* look at every single tactical shooter (including 2D shooter from amiga), they all have some kind of streamlined kit/role selection, all but arma.

I really wonder why i even have to ellaborate on this.

They can't make it automatically appear in every single mission. That would break most missions.

-not thats not the case, for serval reasons. What are you even thinking to demur a self evidently reasonable proposal like that?

Do you really think thats a reasonable argument against a a feature that is so fundamental that it really shouldnt require further elaboration.

guys please, i really dont want to hear either stupid questions or objections against the notion of a streamlined kit/role/loadout menu, that is potentially accessible in the Editor, in the Editor Mission preview, in a Multiplayer game (depending on mission settings), before the round starts, while the round runs and while waiting for respawn.... if anything, you guys should the demand in a chiore collectively and spamm the BI guys with PMs, sending them pictures of Loadout menus... lol

p.s. im posting screenshots of VERY old games on purpose to illustrate how anachronistic and unacceptible it is for arma 3 in 2014 to not have such a feature by default...

[Jona33 51]

Press the mysterious and deeply veiled in mystery button "I". If you want to change your loadout in briefing click team, click your name, click inventory, in game use that mysterious button I hinted at earlier. And like I said, when you're not in game you're getting the VR arsenal, which was released today (including save, load and import buttons. What more do you want? And if you're saying you should be able to magically adjust your loadout in the middle of a mission, find a dead guy and grab his gun, or blame yourself for bringing the wrong gear, or load spare weapons into a vehicle.

[fabio_chavez 103]

Press the mysterious and deeply veiled in mystery button "I". If you want to change your loadout in briefing click team, click your name, click inventory, in game use that mysterious button I hinted at earlier. And like I said, when you're not in game you're getting the VR arsenal, which was released today (including save, load and import buttons. What more do you want?

do you really do not understand the difference between the inventory and a kit selection menu?

nevermind, please stop trolling my proposal.

[Jona33 51]

do you really do not understand the difference between the inventory and a kit selection menu?

nevermind, please stop trolling my proposal.

What precise feature do you want that is not provided by the inventory system/VR arsenal? I'm not taking the piss, I genuinely don't see what you're asking for.

[Brisse 78]

do you really do not understand the difference between the inventory and a kit selection menu?

nevermind, please stop trolling my proposal.

Mission makers will have the option to make the VR Arsenal available to players during missions. Is that not what you are asking for?

[fabio_chavez 103]

What precise feature do you want that is not provided by the inventory system?

i can think of many many features, cant you?

e.g. how does you inventory screen influence your loadout after yor next respawn? just to give an OBVIOUS example...

i MIGHT elaborate on my proposal further with screenshots and mockups but on the condition that people stop derailing it with irrational objections and straight denialism...

[CaptainObvious 95]

Where do you need a kit selection menu? A mission, a gamemode or a full mod that requires such thing usually has it, right?

[fabio_chavez 103]

Mission makers will have the option to make the VR Arsenal available to players during missions. Is that not what you are asking for?

not exactly, no, even if that was the only thing that BI is willing to add as a feature to A3 MP, the VR arsenal itself lacks some basic functions...

[Jona33 51]

i can think of many many features, cant you?

e.g. how does you inventory screen influence your loadout after yor next respawn? just to give an OBVIOUS example...

i MIGHT elaborate on my proposal further with screenshots and mockups but on the condition that people stop derailing it with irrational objections and straight denialism...

Right, we're getting somewhere. Solution: Don't get shot! :D

Ok more seriously, this appears to be implemented in the VR arsenal system.

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arsenal#Virtual_Ammo_Box

Have a read of that.

EDIT: Just saw your above post, what functions do you feel are missing in the VR arsenal, I had a play earlier and it seems they've thought of everything I'm concerned with. The biggest flaw that I know of is that it still requires you to copy the outputted code into a script and run it. I haven't investigated that much though.

[fabio_chavez 103]

Where do you need a kit selection menu? A mission, a gamemode or a full mod that requires such thing usually has it, right?

i dont understand your question, you mean, the fact that every mission/modmaker has to come up with his own solution for kit management in inconsistent ways of varying quality, is an argument against arma 3 having a streamlined kit management menu?

---------- Post added at 19:11 ---------- Previous post was at 19:03 ----------

Ok more seriously, this appears to be implemented in the VR arsenal system.

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arsenal#Virtual_Ammo_Box

Have a read of that.

i read that and thats the reason i came here to make this proposal, because (given i understand the new feature correctly) the VR arsenal is obviously not a satisfying solution.

As a mission maker you might find it handy to build upon the feature, but again, there are serval things missing, e.g. you dont have the VR arsenal feature available in the editor apparently, neither in 2D nor in mission preview, spawning weapon crates with zeus is NOT the equivalent to a loadoutmenu...

[CaptainObvious 95]

i dont understand your question, you mean, the fact that every mission/modmaker has to come up with his own solution for kit management in inconsistent ways of varying quality, is an argument against arma 3 having a streamlined kit management menu?

I'm not arguing against anything, which you probably notice if you read my post.

I'm asking what is the situation that the player should be having a kit selection menu but currently isn't?

I mean every mission I've encountered that requires such a thing, have such a thing already.

Are you proposing some kind of a module that introduces such menu at respawn for example, a module which mission makers can slap in their missions when needed or what?

[Jona33 51]

i read that and thats the reason i came here to make this proposal, because (given i understand the new feature correctly) the VR arsenal is obviously not a satisfying solution.

As a mission maker you might find it handy to build upon the feature, but again, there are serval things missing, e.g. you dont have the VR arsenal feature available in the editor apparently, neither in 2D nor in mission preview, spawning weapon crates with zeus is NOT the equivalent to a loadoutmenu...

However (again if I'm reading this right) Zeus will be able to set loadouts to be selected upon respawn (so for the player there is no fannying around with ammo boxes)-I appreciate it's not quite what you want but it's a step in the right direction. Personally, regarding the loadouts being available in 2D editor, I'm not too fussed about using the script but that is obviously personal opinion. (Not that I'm saying I wouldn't prefer a method where you click edit unit and then adjust loadout I don't see it as a major hassle.) A link to the VR arsenal from the editor would be nice.

I apologize for being a bit of an arse earlier, simply wasn't understanding you.

----------------------------------------------

And to drag this vaguely back to topic, for Marksman DLC I would like some seriously detailed stuff like Spin drift, like having to pull off a couple of calculations. It's just so satisfying when it goes right. It's been compared to DCS when you execute a dive bomb delivery perfectly, right on the numbers in terms of air speed, altitude, bomb Time of Fall, escape manoeuvre, that bomb might hit one APC, that won't win a war, similar to the way that one sniper's shot won't change the outcome of the mission. But damn it feels satisfying to make it.

[13islucky 10]

Well, this has gone slightly off topic by a lot. However, I shall make the revelation that Arma 3 already has a pre-mission loadout editor in the briefing stage. You can edit your inventory pre-mission from a limited pool of equipment and use that, however many missions don't seem to realize that you can do this, so they don't have it.

It's in the Campaign if you want to try it out (and in Arma 2).

[Kerc Kasha 102]

Well, this has gone slightly off topic by a lot. However, I shall make the revelation that Arma 3 already has a pre-mission loadout editor in the briefing stage. You can edit your inventory pre-mission from a limited pool of equipment and use that, however many missions don't seem to realize that you can do this, so they don't have it.

It's in the Campaign if you want to try it out (and in Arma 2).

in arma 3 it's disabled in multiplayer or at the very least doesn't work the same way it did in 2

[Leg 10]

Fixing desync and improving sniping overall. Hitting a desynced person or AI still counts, but it's still quite obnoxious. I don't remember having such desync problems even on the original OFP where having a sniper was considered ideal for any good player. Basically improve the flow of the game fundamentally by improving core issues, and this goes for not only the Marksman DLC but in general. I'm happy with a lot of the FPS optimizations, but you can learn a lot of issues just from playing the game for over an hour on some co-op or SC/pvp server, so that's never a good thing.

For 1000M due to desync and lag, depending on the server, etc., can add on up to 2-3 seconds. So if it takes about 5 seconds to register the hit, that's at least twice as much as it should be. It's quite bothersome. Only a few well maintained/optimized servers have this problem improved with their players moving smoother than the standard, but not entirely removed.. It also depends how long the server has been running and other factors, however if you think about it the memory should be maintained properly in a way where a server, regardless of a mission with lots of scripts, should be able to react or manage its memory accordingly and not become a pile of junk and require a regular restart after an hour. It seems that is the 'norm' in Arma, and it causes drops in client (players on the server) fps, increases desync and ping, etc.. I've run game servers manually since I was 10 years old. Auto-restarts and scheduled restarts are nice, but just saying, optimizations are welcome for this game. Hopefully any major beta improvements become the official and it makes major improvements, because people won't always find/search for betas or tweaks to make the game run (so far only slightly) better just because they see its potential.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Leg

[fabio_chavez 103]

Cpt. Obvious, Jona33 thanks for giving my suggestion some consideration!

I threw together a little mockup, to illustrate it a little further.

It goes beyond pure loadout management at 1-2 points, those had to be included for completeness of the feature. (e.g. squad management is closely related to loadout management and should also be featured in a streamlined manner by a arma3 that wants to become a robust plattform for modding and multiplayer)

I also didnt further elaborate on how the feature could be implemented in some existing gamemmodes (stuff with Money systems and ingame shops etc), for reasons of comprehensiveness and its supposed to be optionally disabled anyway.

The concept is just a WIP mockup whatsoever and it encompasses a variety of features, one has not neccessarily to agree to all of them but the point is,

that the puposes of those features are interlaced and once the basic functionality is created (e.g. the Arsenal?), its just a small step to build on it in different directions (eg. editing and ingame useage building on the same streamlined system)

-The feature (lets call it Arsenal+) should streamline the process of loadout handling in editor/zeus as well as ingame.

-It should develop the feature of streamlining from arsenal to Zeus further and pick up the loose ends in the Editor as well and it should encapsulate handling of the default infantry classes.

-It should give mission/mod makers the abbility to easily apply commonly required propertys to loadout templates, e.g. if the Kit Template is further fully, partially or not at all customizeable ingame (e.g. player should be able to choose from predefined set of optics/grenades etc for his rifleman/medic/whatever kit)

-It should let you apply restrictions to the kits you create, e.g. only 1 Sniper Kit available per X amount of players, Autorifleman only available if X Members in your Squad etc etc

-I for one dont like such gamemodes but since many gamemodes work with some kind of ingame money, there might be ways to consider that (e.g. pricetagging equipment) so those gamemmodes game also benefit from the feature in some way.

-ingame you should by default be able to access the (same) loadout menu at any time, while in lobby/briefing, while ingame, while waiting to respawn etc, mission makers may or may not restrict accessability according to their design. (e.g. only accessible when in shop/mainbase etc)

-if you are now arguing that compareable features can allready be created in arma3, i am going to come to your home and uninstall your computer, the point is to streamline such a feature and give arma a "inhouse" solution for common requirements and since the Arsenal is currently developped, its only the logical expansion, given that you accept certain assumptions, like that Players as well as Modders would benefit from some kind of standardized system and interface.

See the Screenshots Here: http://imgur.com/a/DRA5A

p.s.

I shall make the revelation that Arma 3 already has a pre-mission loadout editor in the briefing stage.

-either you dont understand my point, or you cant mean what you are saying, because if you want to convince people, that the old roleselection screen in the gamelobby is actually the equivalent to a comprehensive Loadout managament system,

you must be joking, it doesnt even come close to to such a feature. It is an obsolete artefact of an abandoned architecture from times when the game wasnt even build around the concept of respawning and it is by now so far away from any reality of Arma3 that you have the reason why people dont use it, right at hand. If you would have given your untenable defense of the status quo only one second of consideration, you would have to come to the conclusion that the roleselection screen/game lobby cant be the feature i was describing, because it has nothing to do with mission editing and in multiplayer you cant even access it anymore once you joined the game, you have to leave the game everytime you would want to change you role/squad/loadout etc and it has NO relation to lacking editor features whatsoever. I could go on to defend the selfexplanatory and commonly accepted fact, that the game doesnt have a conventional and basic feature that nearly all tactical shooters (even 2D shooters apparently) ever had, but its pointless.

Also i think its closely related to the marksman DLC since the Update is supposed to improve infantry related gameplay dynamics in general as far as i know.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Fabio_Chavez

[Brisse 78]

I did not read every word of that long post but let's just say some of your suggestions are good, and others are already implemented, like the template creation for example. Arsenal already has that.

The access to infantry classes is one of those things I agree could be good to implement :D

[fabio_chavez 103]

I did not read every word of that long post ...

Did you read that part too?

-if you are now arguing that compareable features can allready be created in arma3, i am going to come to your home and uninstall your computer...

if you are willfully ignorant, dont mind to answer at all.

[CaptainObvious 95]

@Fabio_Chavez,

Now I get it, I like it.

[13islucky 10]

I think that you may have misunderstood me. Granted, that's because I'm stoopid enough not to notice that it's not in the multiplayer. I was not at all referring to the role selection screen, rather to the inventory screen in the briefing's (briefing in this case referring to the map screen with obj etc.) "Players" tab. I've just noticed it in the campaign and assumed that it was in multiplayer as well.

Basically, when you click on your name, there's the option to change your gear. It then opens your inventory and you can select from a pool of stuff to bring (or not).

Your idea looks a pretty good, hope some of it makes it through.

[mistyronin 1181]

i read that and thats the reason i came here to make this proposal, because (given i understand the new feature correctly) the VR arsenal is obviously not a satisfying solution.

As a mission maker you might find it handy to build upon the feature, but again, there are serval things missing, e.g. you dont have the VR arsenal feature available in the editor apparently, neither in 2D nor in mission preview, spawning weapon crates with zeus is NOT the equivalent to a loadoutmenu...

Technically you can load the Arsenal in-game, in the editor preview called from the console or as an option in a mission for the players. You will be able to even restrict the content of that arsenal, so the players can only take then weapons you want. The arsenal will be activated with a trigger, an object, an option in the menu, etc.

Yes, you can access Arsenal anywhere you want, and it's possible to whitelist specific items. I'm currently describing it on Community Wiki ;)

Edited July 2, 2014 by MistyRonin

[fabio_chavez 103]

Technically you can load the Arsenal in-game, in the editor preview called from the console or as an option in a mission for the players. You will be able to even restrict the content of that arsenal, so the players can only take then weapons you want. The arsenal will be activated with a trigger, an object, an option in the menu, etc.

yes and thats one of the reasons i made this suggestion, to get a proper GUI (beyond Zeus) for that stuff rather than having to copy paste code...

When BI introduces new features into Zeus, why does it so exclusively, why dont the pick up the loose ends of the core game as well to fix the stuff there too?

thats also part my concern...