How to aim GBUs in all CAS aircraft

[Harzach 2517]

About CCIP and CCRP:

Many people that never worked with it misinterpet these systems (as the post above)

I have not misinterpreted either system. I have accurately described their practical application RE: the topic at hand.

[Crielaard 435]

Edit: I just notice this is allready a 3 page thread. I may have missed something while typing my last post aswell. Sorry if I was redundant or impropper

Summarized from the F-16 combat fundamentals handbook:

CCIP is a visual-computed mode. The FCC compensates for local wind by using data from the INS. the pilot should visually aquire the target and manouver his 'pipper' onto the target. Any pitch angle can be valid and it has some roll tollerance, although smooth flying and accurate parameters will enhance the system's accuracy. So dive- or level attacks are very well possible.

CCRP is a computed non-visual mode. Here also the FCC compensates for local winds. The target is in this case not aquired by visual means but by aircraft sensors like FCR TGP or GPS/INS and nowdays datalink.

CCRP oncoperates a 'loft cue' for standoff attacks, lofting bombs onto a target.

This system can well be used in day VMC tactical situations were greater standoff is desired.

Both systems have the same flaw though. They cannot account for winds aloft, windshear, convection, remous and sub/supersonic speed effects and so forth. Hence both systems will be equally inacurate at greater altitudes and slant ranges.

And both systems can be used in either level or dive attacks.

Lofting and pre planned targets is the pro of ccrp

Quick and accurate target switching/shifting is the pro of ccip

Edited May 17, 2014 by 87th_Neptune

[the_demongod 31]

If there is something as dangerous as an AA or an APC that has an HMG, don't use bombs. You have missiles for a reason.

In DCS I would never use GBUs against an AA. I would be shot down in an instant. That's what missiles are for.

[lonesquad 10]

You should be able to attack APCs with unguided bombs. Not everything with an HMG is worthy of a guided missile.

CCIP delivery often requires one to fly toward the target in a dive, often at pitch angles of 30 degrees or more. It's essentially no different from the way it was done in WWII, but for the increased accuracy. CCRP delivery is a bit safer - it requires level flight toward the target, but can be accomplished from much higher altitudes. As for using LASER designators, that's the opposite of "unguided".

[...]

Both methods would help players to use attack aircraft more effectively. It doesn't matter that the underlying principle is the same. Right now people are flying too low (are easy to hit) and are still inaccurate. A least from my experience online.

As for the laser designation: It is the opposite of guided, but would still be better than dropping unguided bombs without any kind of assistance.

87th_Neptune's guide simply bypasses the shortcomings of BIs implementation of aircraft in ArmA (you work is much appreciated and I'm looking forward to your scripts).

But not having technical assistance for bombing is much like having unadjustable sights for machine guns. You can use them effectively anyway, though it would still be more immersive and realistic if you had this mechanic.

[Crielaard 435]

But not having technical assistance for bombing is much like having unadjustable sights for machine guns.

agreed.

[mikeap 0]

It's sad, because we have all of these futuristic and high tech aircraft but not the target acquisition systems that go with them.

Future tech, WW1 tactics...

I look forward to a day when I can realistically detect and engage targets from my ground radar.

Same goes for tanks and fire control systems in ArmA...

[mordeaniischaos 3]

isnt this for dropping bombs?

http://i.imgur.com/EchHUuw.jpg (110 kB)

i always use that reticle for dive bombing. never fails me once you drop a couple you know when you will overshoot or undershoot

That just shows where your craft is headed, and since your bombs get all their momentum from your craft, that's where you'll hit when dive bombing. But dive bombing isn't optimal, especially when every jackass with a 5.56 rifle can shoot you out of the sky when you dive at them.

In the real world, dive bombing would pretty much assure death in a lot of situations. We need a way to hit targets from a distance with accuracy, and without flying straight at them.

[subs17 9]

Kind of a useless advice if your missions objective is to fly in such areas. Do you edit the AA out of missions you want to play?

This: "Start your egress at 1km from the target, at ~500-600m AGL, and fly directly toward your target." (the_Demongod) makes you an easy target, but works.

I don't recall using the word "orienting", it's about flying at it directly, as if you were to use your plane as the bomb. Even APCs are dangerous enemies if you are flying this low.

I propose to employ unguided bombs in a way that reflects modern CAS. It's 2035 ingame, not 1935. CCIP or CCRP should be the way to go and if this isn't possible, then designating targets yourself, as LoneGhostOne proposed, would be at least a step in the right direction.

You start your ingress from further away than 1km(egress is when you are leaving the tgt or airfield etc)

A handy program for attack profiles is the Weapon Delivery planner:

http://www.weapondeliveryplanner.nl/

So using this planner you can calculate the path your aircraft should take for the weapons delivery. In the situation where you are doing a popup attack in a sim such as Falcon 4 AF or BMS or any other real F-16 sim you can enter in the values calculated which place cues in the HUD for such a attack. Perhaps later the devs could change the speed/altitude to knots/feet and maybe some of this planner could be used in Arma3. Ideally you want a data cartridge for the aircraft which holds key information on the flight such as waypoints, threat circles for the HSD(horizontal situation display) and countermeasures profiles.

So download WDP 3.6.1 which is the latest version and check out the popup page and you'll find that you can enter the tgt location and it will calculate the profile for delivery(high drag or slick bombs) and then you can save that on a dtc (data cartridge) which is then transferred to the sim Falcon 4 BMS. And from there you fly your mission and HUD cues appear at certain times and altitudes as you do the mission.

So this is advanced stuff but gives you an idea of what is possible, F-16s are quite an old aircraft so a modern aircraft or futuristic aircraft would have something similar.

Typically you ingress from 5miles and you fly in a different direction to a defending tgt and then pullup and turn/roll onto the tgt release and then egress to OA2. Altitudes and speeds can vary according to what you're attacking and how well defended it is.

---------- Post added at 11:58 ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 ----------

So how about we break this all down to stages I use for a strike and then see if at some point someone may add some of this stuff.

1/ reccon so information is received on a tgt and this is used to plan the mission for this example a nuclear reactor.

We need additional information such as threats and then that needs to be added to the dtc. If the aircraft has an HSD then you can relate your aircrafts position to the tgt and to the threats.

Below the yellow highlighted box is an HSD and as you see your aircraft is the center and the threat circles appear a different colour such as yellow.(the while circles a distances away from your aircraft which is in the centre) Modern HSDs also include map terrain and also show your route so you know exactly where you need to be.

CCIP is like shooting a rifle IMO so you have to follow certain rules to hit the tgt(like the marksmanship principles only for an aircraft), depending on the sim and how realistic the bomb trajectorys, wind etc is modelled so how easy or difficult it is to hit a target. With Advanced flight modelling for a iron bomb then you need to ensure you place the pipper(circle thingy on the bottom of the line) exactly on the tgt with wings level etc. So even CCIP can be a challenge to hit a tgt that is large if you do not follow those rules in some sims which is why I am against manual dive bombing in a sim like this because it would be unrealistic for a modern fighter unless they suffered a critical failure in the avionics/weapons computers in which case they would either abort or have a backup sight of some sort.

---------- Post added at 12:14 ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 ----------

The beauty of CCRP is if there is low cloud/fog and you cannot see the tgt you can still drop bombs on it with CCRP(or if the AAA is to intense for CCIP). So long as the devs model a CCRP HUD mode and waypoints then all weather is possible and with the addition of an HSD of some sort then you can much easier relate your position to the tgt.

More advanced MP is to use team tactics such as single side offset and the split attack:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/SUBS17/USAFMANUAL-193.jpg (111 kB)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/SUBS17/USAFMANUAL-196.jpg (104 kB)

With an HSD that shows the position of the wingmen and a counter for the waypoints showing eta then you can do stuff like this.

[spanishsurfer 58]

Most posts on here are either completely misinformed or way too complicated...Why on earth would you dummy drop bombs? You won't last 5 minutes on a public server doing that. You cannot use the FPV (Flight Path Vector) to drop these bombs, like someone mentioned it doesn't calculate the drop for bombs, just where your aircraft is headed. Go ahead and try it, you're going to be way off. Like mentioned earlier, dive bombing in Arma is completely stupid.

If you want to hit a target right on the mark with GBUs you need someone or something (uav) lazing it.

I consistently hit targets from 1500-2000m up in the air and release the bombs as far out as 4-6km, all of this done on a public CTI server that's FULL of AA vehicles and infantry manning AA. The bombs hit before they even have a chance to see or hear me.

This is what you do.

1) Have a good laze

2) Lock onto the laze by pushing tab

3) Wait for a diamond to appear over the square

4) When the diamond pops up, you have a short window, give it 1-2 sec then drop the bombs.

5) If you did everything above, the target should be a crater.

#3 is the hardest one to achieve, unlike arma 2, you MUST have the right conditions for the bomb to drop. It's all based on AOA (angle of attack) of the bomb. I've memorized several altitudes, distances, airspeed combinations so I can adjust conditions. The closer you are to the target, the lower an altitude and airspeed you will require to drop the bombs...It's all common sense.

Here's what I recommend you memorize for a standard drop: Altitude 1500m, airspeed 400-500km/h, ready for bomb drop by 4km (this means your alt and airspeed should be setup, target selected, and stabilized flight)...the closer you get and are not stabilized the less airspeed and altitude you will need.

If you want to practice this go into the editor and put up a darter, laze anything you want, and do multiple passes until you've perfected the drop.

Lazing works well in Arma 3 with the GBUs. You should all look at Neptunes table that shows distances/altitudes for a good bomb drop, it will help.

That's all there is to this gentleman.

-SS

Edited May 27, 2014 by SpanishSurfer

[Crielaard 435]

Long post and memorisation which, as I posted before, is easily combined in 1 page with a picture:

https://db.tt/zF5ax5Pa

Thats all there is to it. Fly in the published parameters and release.

IF you do get in a situation where no designation is available, I want to refer to my Combat Fundamentals manual Chapter Dive bombing which will give you high altitude and shallow dive anlges, which will keep you out of harm's way.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?178073-Fighter-jet-Combat-Fundamentals-Manual

Note the altitude and and safe stand-off range in these videos

Edited May 27, 2014 by 87th_Neptune

[subs17 9]

Lets hope the devs improve this so that CCRP and CCIP are possible and make things more realistic.

BTW check this out:

Ideally you want the sim to represent its aircraft support something like what you see here at 6min. So in arma you are dive bombing but in this video you see an entire group of tanks and SAMs wiped out by some A-10s. If you were to dive bomb them you would get shot down and also notice the effect of the CBU97s which is a modern cluster bomb and there is also a JDAM version which can only be delivered by CCRP mode only. And unguided LGBs IRL are very inaccurate if dropped in CCIP without lasing. The other thing is the 9 liner so in a CAS situation infantry on the ground want support from the CAS aircraft they give the CAS 9 liner on the radio. In the A-10C you can also get data as well from the JTAC. (they don't always use lasers)

Edited May 29, 2014 by SUBS17

[xendance 3]

Just a heads up, I released a CCIP script a while ago. You can find a sample mission workshop link in the post: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?179025-CCIP-script-for-aircrafts

[subs17 9]

Sweet.

[subs17 9]

CCIP now is in A3 I see and I've managed to hit a ground tgt with AG missile but was unable to lock onto a 2nd tgt. I see in the mission that there is ground lasing for LGBs/missiles but have yet to see any diamond and also A/A missiles don't yet lock.