The decline of Italian performance in war

[andrewza 10]

Well, IMO countries which aren't fond of making wars are more civilized countries than the others. That's a very personal opinion though :)

You are of course intited to your opinion. But does not mean it is right.

Italy is curently a PIGS member. Or the 4 worst most back wards EU countries.

Personaly. If you look at all the true civlastion and most civlised countries out there you see a strong milltary power.

During the 1930s and WW2 italy all so wanted to be a milltary power. They just could not do it. I mean they struggeled vs ethyiopa even though they should have had a easy win there.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Italy is curently a PIGS member. Or the 4 worst most back wards EU countries.

This has nothing to do with "civilization". They have economic troubles, that's all. Naming them that way is a real shame :mad:

[Antorugby 2]

Well, IMO countries which aren't fond of making wars are more civilized countries than the others. That's a very personal opinion though :)

Well I can understand this point of view, the Italian constitution doesn't allow war as an offensive option, even we partecipated in many wars in the last 50 years as peacekeeping.

But trust me when I tell you that unfortunately we are not so civilized, Italians have a long road ahead.

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[Andrea 10]

You are of course intited to your opinion. But does not mean it is right.

Italy is curently a PIGS member. Or the 4 worst most back wards EU countries.

Personaly. If you look at all the true civlastion and most civlised countries out there you see a strong milltary power.

During the 1930s and WW2 italy all so wanted to be a milltary power. They just could not do it. I mean they struggeled vs ethyiopa even though they should have had a easy win there.

I don't understand what do you mean. First of all, according to wikipedia and its sources, italy has a very high HDI. Moreover, according to your philosophy, Saudi Arabia, 4th in the worldwide military expenses classification, is more civilized than UK, France and Germany while India and Brasil are more civilezed than South Corea and Australia. About the war in Etiopia, in early 20th century Etiopia was not a poor african country, but an important commercial hub (suez canal). Finally, PIGS doesn't indicate poor countries, but countries with a huge public debt, which is quite different. I'm italian, and i don't think we're less civilized than for example germans. Not being italian, how can you talk about something you simply don't know about?

[ProfTournesol 956]

I don't understand what do you mean. First of all, according to wikipedia and its sources, italy has a very high HDI. Moreover, according to your philosophy, Saudi Arabia, 4th in the worldwide military expenses classification, is more civilized than UK, France and Germany while India and Brasil are more civilezed than South Corea and Australia. About the war in Etiopia, in early 20th century Etiopia was not a poor african country, but an important commercial hub (suez canal). Finally, PIGS doesn't indicate poor countries, but countries with a huge public debt, which is quite different. I'm italian, and i don't think we're less civilized than for example germans. Not being italian, how can you talk about something you simply don't know about?

Indeed. Moreover, our modern civilization is born in Greece and Italy.

[andrewza 10]

I don't understand what do you mean. First of all, according to wikipedia and its sources, italy has a very high HDI. Moreover, according to your philosophy, Saudi Arabia, 4th in the worldwide military expenses classification, is more civilized than UK, France and Germany while India and Brasil are more civilezed than South Corea and Australia. About the war in Etiopia, in early 20th century Etiopia was not a poor african country, but an important commercial hub (suez canal). Finally, PIGS doesn't indicate poor countries, but countries with a huge public debt, which is quite different. I'm italian, and i don't think we're less civilized than for example germans. Not being italian, how can you talk about something you simply don't know about?

Since when does the amount of money waisted on your milltary make it powerfull?

Ethyiopa is not poor today either. But it was not a milltary power in the 1930s.

If italy is any thing like greece and spain then yes germany is more civliced.

Not being from brasil, shouth koera, suadia arabia, ethyopya extra how can you talk about them.

I mean itally at one point had crimlorders runing it and leader is a pedophile.

---------- Post added at 05:49 ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 ----------

Indeed. Moreover, our modern civilization is born in Greece and Italy.

Not really.

[giallustio 770]

If italy is any thing like greece and spain then yes germany is more civliced.

Could you explain what you mean with "more civilized"?

I mean itally at one point had crimlorders runing it and leader is a pedophile.

Oh my...:rolleyes:

[andrewza 10]

Could you explain what you mean with "more civilized"?

Oh my...:rolleyes:

I come south africa. Greece and spain remind of all the bad things about SA. Bad roads, poverty, and looks of people that have given up. In germany I was amazied by germany and the neatherlands.

Now I am not saying the PIGS country are 3rd world dumps. But compared to the rest of western europe they behind.

[giallustio 770]

You should look better.

An area could have some problems, but it doesn't mean that the entire country is not "civilized".

Bad roads, poverty, and looks of people that have given up.

I can't speak for Greece, but this is not true for Italy and Spain, i can guarantee

[gunny1987 0]

Well, if you judge Italy for Bad roads, yes, I think we're a member of a 4rd world country, not a 3rd world country.

I come from Italy and I don't have many problems to say that the are a lot of strange things in our country. But before the global crisis and the euro zone crisis, Italy was not a poor country. Italy was one of the first economy of Europe (and World, I think!). The region where I live, Lombardy, is still today the second region of Europe after Ile-de-France for Nominal GDP. These are not numbers of a country of 3rd world.

But we well become a country of 3rd world if italian and european politics will not change. After debts crisis, we have one of the highest taxation of Europe. This has not solved our problem, but it has generated more other problems. Our company are in trouble, a lot of company have failed during the last years, unemployment level is growing up without limit. For example, Lombardy Unemployment rate was 3,5% in 2000. Now, 2014, is reaching the 8%.

If you add to this economical troubles other problems that Italy always had, such the three big criminal organizations, natural disaster (earthquake, flood etc etc), corruption, yes, Italy will become a country of 3rd world if nothing will change during the next 5 years.

[Andrea 10]

Since when does the amount of money waisted on your milltary make it powerfull?

Ethyiopa is not poor today either. But it was not a milltary power in the 1930s.

If italy is any thing like greece and spain then yes germany is more civliced.

Not being from brasil, shouth koera, suadia arabia, ethyopya extra how can you talk about them.

I mean itally at one point had crimlorders runing it and leader is a pedophile.

So, how do you measure the military power of a country? In my opinion, for military,the more you spend, the more power you get (i mean in terms of weapons etc.) Regardin ethiopians,"During the war and in the immediate pre-war phase, ethiopian troops were supplied with weapons and cash by some europeans power, among which France, Belgium and UK, which supplied also officers to better educate Negus troops, which were approximately twice that of the Italian." from wikipedia. And we're not something like greece and spain cause we're in the same classification that regards public debt. And if you read wikipedia page, sometimes also UK is included in these classification. And i don't think we've something in common with Uk.Moreover, you continue to base your thoughts on stereotypes, cause even though nowadays greece has problems, i was in barcelona and madrid, and i can ensure it didn't look like caracas.

Regard the states you named, Saudi arabia is an absolute monarchy. i think civilization is measured also in this way. Brasil have favelas, robberies everyday and sometimes piracy in the sea. India is nearly equal to Brasil. And these are not stereotypes.Finally yes, italy has crimlorders, if you mean mob. but i never said italy is perfect. on the other side, they don't run italy. and thousands of men fight against it. regarding the "leader" you name, Berlusconi is nomore the italian prime minister.

---------- Post added at 10:11 ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 ----------

Well, if you judge Italy for Bad roads, yes, I think we're a member of a 4rd world country, not a 3rd world country.

I come from Italy and I don't have many problems to say that the are a lot of strange things in our country. But before the global crisis and the euro zone crisis, Italy was not a poor country. Italy was one of the first economy of Europe (and World, I think!). The region where I live, Lombardy, is still today the second region of Europe after Ile-de-France for Nominal GDP. These are not numbers of a country of 3rd world.

But we well become a country of 3rd world if italian and european politics will not change. After debts crisis, we have one of the highest taxation of Europe. This has not solved our problem, but it has generated more other problems. Our company are in trouble, a lot of company have failed during the last years, unemployment level is growing up without limit. For example, Lombardy Unemployment rate was 3,5% in 2000. Now, 2014, is reaching the 8%.

If you add to this economical troubles other problems that Italy always had, such the three big criminal organizations, natural disaster (earthquake, flood etc etc), corruption, yes, Italy will become a country of 3rd world if nothing will change during the next 5 years.

Are you grillino?:D:D i'm kidding, i'm not interested in politics. i think you're right, but civilization is not only economic power. i think the only reason that make us not a good country is corruption. but i don't think we're not civilized. or we're a 3rd world country only for this. there are tons of indexes about civilization, and even though we lack in some of these, it doesn't mean other countries are perfect.

[gunny1987 0]

:D :D :D

I'm far away to be a Grillino. I have to say that the rising of that movement is one of the problem created from our corrupted or incapable politics and the failure of european solution of debt crisis.

I agree with you when you say that civilization is not only economic power. But I think that a good economy can solve a lot of problems.

It doesn't matter if we are not a perfect country, I'm glad that I was born here in Italy ;)

Edited May 6, 2014 by Gunny1987

[Antorugby 2]

:D :D :D

I'm far away to be a Grillino.

Thank God.

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[gunny1987 0]

Thank God.

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Don't worry!

We already had a clown as prime minister, we don't need another one.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Gunny1987

[giallustio 770]

Don't worry! http://sepriumsim.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png

We already had a clown as prime minister, we don't need another one.

They're all clowns, that's the real problem....;)

[dodo459 10]

seems like the italians need to get spears and swords now! They'll do much better in combat then!