Preventive Diplomacy - "Win" campaign episode

[Variable 322]

Although some of the issues of this mission have been discussed alternately on the Win Review thread, I thought of putting them in a single topic given the multitude of problems I encountered comparing to other missions of the campaign, and the fact that my playthrough was made on the stable version. Played on Veteran difficulty.

1. Charlie 3-4, the IFV, gets blown up pretty easily. It's VERY hard to keep him alive. I practically had to sprint-fight through the solar station to take care myself of all the enemy AT soldiers in the compound to ensure they don't take a shot on the IFV, which took a significant amount of reverts. It's just feels as if it's almost impossible to keep it alive. Not really a big deal but it feels wrong.
   
2. You are being told by Crossroads to hold the solar station but immediately after they tell you to move on to the next objective, the town. A bit of an odd moment there, but, again, no biggy.
   
3. The counter attack comes very soon, which leaves you with almost no time to prepare yourself, or even get into some good position. For example, you have the option to use some ara AT mines using the artillery but virtually no time to order them in on the movement axis of the attack once the notice regarding the counter attack is made. You can use the IFV (that is, if you managed to save it on the solar factory) but only if you are extremely lucky and the AI driving skills are on the good side if can get you safely to the eastern defence line. I can understand the need to make a high-paced mission, but it just feels off. Arma was never about a killing spree, I think the campaign should encourage players to take things slower and, for example, allow them to equip their guys for a frontal armoured assault. Right now it's almost impossible to equip even yourself.
   
4. Another problem is that my team members don't seem to correspond to their icons. for example. My AT soldier (number 4) is armed with a Titan launcher but has an MG icon, along with other inconsistencies with others on my team. Now let's move on to the more serious problems.
   
5. The support options of these missions are very problematic. First, the chopper gets shot down very easily, even when I called it while there were only one or two armoured vehicles, he got shot down. However, the most serious problem is that when the chopper is destroyed the mission fails! On several attempts, right after I received the "we have lost the chopper" message I received the mission failure screen saying I failed to defend the town from the counter attack, although I was alive and all my squad was still intact.
   
6. The artillery support seem buggy as well. I tried laser painting the attacking tanks using the drones LD and calling in laser guided missiles from the support menu, but not, even once, I was managed to see a successful impact. Sometimes I saw an explosion (after the "Splash" message) far away from the target but most of the times not even that. The 155mm rounds hit way off and that's somewhat understandable, but laser designated bombs and missiles suppose to be highly accurate, so I don't suppose this by design. Due to the fact that calling CAS is failing the mission, and artillery is helpless even with laser designation on stationary tanks, I was left only with the option of relying on myself and my team.
   

I finally managed to complete the mission by disabling a tank and taking over it, but I felt the mission was not played as intended, and I would like to try it again should the above mentioned bugs or design flaws be fixed.

Do others share the same experiences? Can we expect fixes to some of the mentioned issues?

Edited March 25, 2014 by Variable

[bardosy 158]

6. It's an old bug. No drone's LD works with arty. :( Only your manual LD works with arty. I created a mission before what based on drone lase targets, but I gave it up, because it's a reported bug.

[wasserkool 1]

Out of all missions, I loved this one the best. I didn't have to send a SINGLE troop into the town to win this mission. All you have to do is climb up the TALL solar towers which will give you a COMPLETE view of the down. Once you are up there, you will find a dead enemy sniper and use his weapon to pick off some of the infantries. Your laser designator with IR vision will tell you where all the enemies are and call in the arty! First use the shell burst which will take care of the majority of the soft target. Next use HE shells to finish the rest. As for the attack heli, the moment you see the armor rolling in, call in the heli and the guided missiles will take care of them!

[Variable 322]

I gave the mission another go and now I used the on-board Scalpel missiles on the attacking armour, which does the trick.

[2nd ranger 282]

The artillery support is absolutely useless in this campaign. Twice I tried to hit the AAF base in the town with 3 to 5 HE shells, and not once did any of them hit the target. And in 'Paradise Found', attacking the last AAF positions, I tried calling in artillery on the tanks and again the rounds hit waaaay off-target. It was only when I called in some MLRS fire that one of the vehicles got hit (and then every other vehicle exploded at exactly the same moment. I looked in the mission file for some sort of 'one dies, they all die' event, but couldn't find anything. If such an event does exist then that is really dumb).

I must have got lucky with this mission because I just took out one of the tanks myself, then called in the CAS which destroyed the rest without incident. Never even occurred to me to use the UAV, though I don't like using them anyway.

[Variable 322]

I must have got lucky with this mission because I just took out one of the tanks myself, then called in the CAS which destroyed the rest without incident. Never even occurred to me to use the UAV, though I don't like using them anyway.

And with good reason. The UAV is overpowered in this mission. Once I realized it carries guided missiles myself I took out all the armoured targets (6 missiles, 6 targets) using the UAV. Another bit of 'Win' campaign anti-climax 'meh' moments.

[maturin 12]

My chopper never once opened fire. This mission has a nice beginning but becomes bullshit. Trying to put AI subordinates in defensive positions in a town is also incredibly time-consuming, and the mission doesn't give you any.

[TSAndrey 1]

My chopper never once opened fire. This mission has a nice beginning but becomes bullshit. Trying to put AI subordinates in defensive positions in a town is also incredibly time-consuming, and the mission doesn't give you any.

Just use the UAV to destroy the incoming vehicles, and then use the stationary HMG to kill any incoming forces. You don't even need your teammates

[Variable 322]

Just use the UAV to destroy the incoming vehicles, and then use the stationary HMG to kill any incoming forces. You don't even need your teammates

Yeah... Exactly my problem with this mission.

[paecmaker 23]

I loved the assault on the solar power plant but then my apc ran away into the enemy lines and got shot up.

When it comes to the artillery I had a bit of luck, the lazing didnt work but I managed to hit the apc with a cluster bomb crippling it( then I sneaked to it and blew it up with explosives) Well I just called in the rest of the artillery and managed to take down a few enemies and half the town with them. I assaulted the town and took the base. The counter attack came really fast(even more counting there were several tanks and stuff). on my first try the helicopter got insta killed and the second try my squad died, I hid wounded in a building and then called the cas which then slaughtered the enemy.

I never liked the cas and artillery support on win, the air just died the moment they appeared and the arty almost never hit anything.

[codarl 1]

Am I the only one around here that thinks twice about cluster-bombing a town?

I mean that's Hague tribunal shit right there!

[Variable 322]

Am I the only one around here that thinks twice about cluster-bombing a town?

I mean that's Hague tribunal shit right there!

You are right, but the campaign manipulates you to think that unless it was specifically mentioned, no civilians are around.

[wasserkool 1]

Did you guys use the air burst cluster shell? I was able to clear the entire town using two salvos lol and they cover a LARGE area!

[Variable 322]

Did you guys use the air burst cluster shell? I was able to clear the entire town using two salvos lol and they cover a LARGE area!

I have. Although their coverage they didn't do much because they hit way off.

[TSAndrey 1]

Did you guys use the air burst cluster shell? I was able to clear the entire town using two salvos lol and they cover a LARGE area!

Yeah, I killed the whole middle part of the town with that. Too bad I only used 1 salvo...

[Jona33 51]

I didn't have any problems with the artillery missing. One thing to remember when using a laser guided shell is only to turn the laser on near the end of it's flight. If you turn it on early the shell will head straight for it, it will run out of energy and hit well short.

When I played this I made a fairly major error, I tried to call in an AT mine cluster around the AAF base to make sure any other vehicles moving would blow up. What I may have ever so slightly done wrong was call in an AP mine cluster. I had to walk through the section around the town shooting mines with my MX to clear it. Then the artullery support disappeared for some reason so to take out the counter attack I used the drone, then tried to kill the infantry on foot with my other two guys. They died but then a friendly squad turned up and it was technically a win overall.

[Variable 322]

I didn't have any problems with the artillery missing. One thing to remember when using a laser guided shell is only to turn the laser on near the end of it's flight. If you turn it on early the shell will head straight for it, it will run out of energy and hit well short.

Really? I got to try that... Thanks. So When do you turn it on? When it says "Splash"?

[Jona33 51]

About then is a good idea, perhaps a touch earlier.

[connorwarman 60]

Just finished this mission, had to do it over completely at least three times because I would keep losing my entire squad + the IFV by the time I took Kappa.

IMO the Counter attack comes way to quickly, by the time I got setup on the north eastern side of town with what was left of my men the armor was rolling up on me, I understand its suppose to be a fast paced mission but that was infuriating, not to mention the armor all comes at once. Maybe a 2-3 waves of infantry with armor spread out within the numbers would have work better?

I enjoyed the mission overall, good work as always BIS.

[raizde2 10]

hmmm Im having problems destroying the mbt 52 kuma with air strike, I hit one of them with 2 laser guided artilary, and 6 hits from the uav missiles and lived, I have the PDML? but it doesnt destroy those tanks... I guess only the titan can?? or is this a bug?

PS: also the laser guided doesnt seem to work... like as soon as i press to send the missile, it registers the location I am aiming, aiming with the laser after doesnt affect it.

cluster is good vs infantry, shells a bit random but might hit some infantry (not sure if it destroys low armor vehicles)

guided missiles too imprecise, laser ones good precision, if you fire 2 instead of 1, the second sometimes misses, but with laser tends to be more times on target... might have been luck.

had too restart, pretty sure the tanks were invulnerable.

Edited May 21, 2014 by raizde2

[Variable 322]

PS: also the laser guided doesnt seem to work... like as soon as i press to send the missile, it registers the location I am aiming, aiming with the laser after doesnt affect it.

Laser designate the target only once the missile is roughly in it's maximum altitude, which is about 15 seconds after the "ordnance complete message". If you LD the target too soon, it will just smash into the ground and will not hit the target. Step by step procedure: 1. point at the target (keep LD off)

2. call in a laser guided bomb

3. wait for "ordnance complete message" and count 15 seconds once its heard

4. Laser designate the target.

5. Wait for impact with laser on.

[raizde2 10]

well I tried several ways didnt have any problem hitting the target any way even aiming the laser from the start or aiming badly after the inicial targeting, didnt try with moving targets.

managed to succed this time, still missiles from the uav only vs infantry, only used the laser guided missiles vs tanks, (the shells might work... but they are too random and I was too close :P ), but this time I had several titans AT

still I had to get in one of the tanks and shot the other that was almost destroyed just to make the rest of the crew leave the tank so I could kill them. I guess we don't need to destroy the tanks just kill all enemies.

[rekrul 7]

Although some of the issues of this mission have been discussed alternately on the Win Review thread, I thought of putting them in a single topic given the multitude of problems I encountered comparing to other missions of the campaign, and the fact that my playthrough was made on the stable version. Played on Veteran difficulty.

1. Charlie 3-4, the IFV, gets blown up pretty easily. It's VERY hard to keep him alive. I practically had to sprint-fight through the solar station to take care myself of all the enemy AT soldiers in the compound to ensure they don't take a shot on the IFV, which took a significant amount of reverts. It's just feels as if it's almost impossible to keep it alive. Not really a big deal but it feels wrong.
   
2. You are being told by Crossroads to hold the solar station but immediately after they tell you to move on to the next objective, the town. A bit of an odd moment there, but, again, no biggy.
   
3. The counter attack comes very soon, which leaves you with almost no time to prepare yourself, or even get into some good position. For example, you have the option to use some ara AT mines using the artillery but virtually no time to order them in on the movement axis of the attack once the notice regarding the counter attack is made. You can use the IFV (that is, if you managed to save it on the solar factory) but only if you are extremely lucky and the AI driving skills are on the good side if can get you safely to the eastern defence line. I can understand the need to make a high-paced mission, but it just feels off. Arma was never about a killing spree, I think the campaign should encourage players to take things slower and, for example, allow them to equip their guys for a frontal armoured assault. Right now it's almost impossible to equip even yourself.
   
4. Another problem is that my team members don't seem to correspond to their icons. for example. My AT soldier (number 4) is armed with a Titan launcher but has an MG icon, along with other inconsistencies with others on my team. Now let's move on to the more serious problems.
   
5. The support options of these missions are very problematic. First, the chopper gets shot down very easily, even when I called it while there were only one or two armoured vehicles, he got shot down. However, the most serious problem is that when the chopper is destroyed the mission fails! On several attempts, right after I received the "we have lost the chopper" message I received the mission failure screen saying I failed to defend the town from the counter attack, although I was alive and all my squad was still intact.
   
6. The artillery support seem buggy as well. I tried laser painting the attacking tanks using the drones LD and calling in laser guided missiles from the support menu, but not, even once, I was managed to see a successful impact. Sometimes I saw an explosion (after the "Splash" message) far away from the target but most of the times not even that. The 155mm rounds hit way off and that's somewhat understandable, but laser designated bombs and missiles suppose to be highly accurate, so I don't suppose this by design. Due to the fact that calling CAS is failing the mission, and artillery is helpless even with laser designation on stationary tanks, I was left only with the option of relying on myself and my team.
   

I finally managed to complete the mission by disabling a tank and taking over it, but I felt the mission was not played as intended, and I would like to try it again should the above mentioned bugs or design flaws be fixed.

Do others share the same experiences? Can we expect fixes to some of the mentioned issues?

I just played it yesterday so things might have been corrected since OP played.

2. They're telling the assisting squad to hold the solar station, so you (Nomad) can proceed.

[Death1081 10]

I'm having a problem where friendly AI solders are stepping on mines and getting blown up & I'm getting the blame for it and the msg "Friendly fire will not be tolerated" comes up and I get automatic mission fail! WTF? Has anyone else had this issue? Am I supposed to remove the mines first or something?

[rekrul 7]

Are you firing clusterbombs or AT mines over your own men with the artillery, perhaps? I never had any issue with mines there.