Ukraine General

[mistyronin 1181]

He's forgetting natural gas, the only thing stopping Europe of taking further actions.

I think it's not only the resources what prevent Europe of taking more actions, Europe has a long tradition of trying to avoid conflicts ( especially military ones ).

[oxmox 73]

I think it's not only the resources what prevent Europe of taking more actions, Europe has a long tradition of trying to avoid conflicts ( especially military ones ).

Exceptions are GB and France, they are quick with military operations. Germany gets pushed since a while to "carry more military responsibility" as one of the leading nation in Europe.

Edited November 10, 2014 by oxmox

[Jona33 51]

Exceptions are GB and France, they are quick with military operations. Germany gets pushed since a while to "carry more military responsibility" as one of the leading nation in Europe.

However at least here in Britain I suspect that we're not going to get involved much any more. There's recently been a documentary on entitled "Afghanistan, The Lions Last Roar?" which looked at whether or not we'll ever engage in major conflicts on other people's territory again, given the years of cuts and the impact of operations in Afghanistan (though at least the public antipathy towards the armed forces has changed) Britain can only whimper, it'll take a while before we can roar again (I imagine that will come, when they realise that budget cuts are destroying the armed forces). I don't see us jumping into any major conflicts any time soon.

[Tonci87 163]

Same with Germany, the war in Afghanistan seems to have drained what budget and spare parts they had.

[oxmox 73]

You have to watch this...... The TV station seems not be delighted with a Journalist during a live broadcast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkP-HfQLY1M

Edited November 11, 2014 by oxmox

[batto 17]

That sounds more like it. Putin is trying by all means to keep in power. Creating a "foreign" evil to blame for all Russia's problems.

Yes. I recently had very enlightening discussion with Russian fellow who said the same:

there is excelent public rhetorics in Russia: all fails of our country is determined by malicious politics of the USA, not by errors in administration

but UA gov had invented even worse excuse for own failures: all guilt is on russian-spoken half of UA civils

placing guilt on far away USA is much wiser: there are no methods to change its politics

but when you blame your own civilians you suggest very unplesant way to resolve all difficulties

Government always needs some enemy be it terrorists or USA ;).

I wonder, have UA army even engaged in this war so far or is it still fought only by battalions?

[mistyronin 1181]

You have to watch this...... The TV station seems not be delighted with a Journalist during a live broadcast.

I don't get much the point of the video. And I think the title is misleading.

The journalist on the spot says what the people there have told him ( which BTW is the same that Vice Reporters have already shown before ), which is mainly the obvious thing: that no one wants to be shelled and want the issue to be solved peacefully.

A big fat man, who seems to be some kind of politician, tries to ask the reporter what's his political view on the subject, and the news anchor says that they are journalist so they don't get involve in politics; which is the logical and professional answer.

[beastcat 14]

nvm, lol

Here's another pic:

[x3kj 1247]

german news

Nato consideres big manouvres near russian border

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/nato-erwaegt-grossmanoever-nahe-der-grenze-zu-russland-a-1001530.html

EU consideres more sanctions against russia. Steinmeier warns that it takes time for sanctions to have an impact and to completely seal off all channels for negotiations. "It takes 14 days to create a conflict but 14 years to solve it". http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-konflikt-eu-erwaegt-neue-sanktionen-gegen-russland-a-1002254.html

imo large scale manouvres near the border from nato side would be the nail in the coffin endlessly spiraling escalation.

[aleksadragutin 9]

I don't get much the point of the video. And I think the title is misleading.

The journalist on the spot says what the people there have told him ( which BTW is the same that Vice Reporters have already shown before ), which is mainly the obvious thing: that no one wants to be shelled and want the issue to be solved peacefully.

A big fat man, who seems to be some kind of politician, tries to ask the reporter what's his political view on the subject, and the news anchor says that they are journalist so they don't get involve in politics; which is the logical and professional answer.

But then the reporter said he does not support Russians, but that he also doesn't support the UA doing what it's doing, and then the line was cut. That part doesn't seem very professional to me.

---------- Post added at 16:38 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------

german news

Nato consideres big manouvres near russian border

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/nato-erwaegt-grossmanoever-nahe-der-grenze-zu-russland-a-1001530.html

EU consideres more sanctions against russia. Steinmeier warns that it takes time for sanctions to have an impact and to completely seal off all channels for negotiations. "It takes 14 days to create a conflict but 14 years to solve it". http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-konflikt-eu-erwaegt-neue-sanktionen-gegen-russland-a-1002254.html

imo large scale manouvres near the border from nato side would be the nail in the coffin endlessly spiraling escalation.

All NATO has been doing this whole crisis is trying to provoke it.

[Dwarden 1125]

Yeah, in the meanwhile Russia has the biggest gas ressources in the world which is needed on the market.

http://www.eia.gov/countries/analysisbriefs/Russia/images/natural_gas_reserves.png

you forgot the gas on any medium to high depth sea bed, Japanese already had tech to extract that for like 2 years

Norway is working on it too, in short natural gas is no more that important

[oxmox 73]

I don't get much the point of the video. And I think the title is misleading.

The journalist on the spot says what the people there have told him ( which BTW is the same that Vice Reporters have already shown before ), which is mainly the obvious thing: that no one wants to be shelled and want the issue to be solved peacefully.

A big fat man, who seems to be some kind of politician, tries to ask the reporter what's his political view on the subject, and the news anchor says that they are journalist so they don't get involve in politics; which is the logical and professional answer.

You get maybe only the point if you followed certain links in this thread about incidents in the last days.

The journalist on the spot says that people he did interview are that desperate, they demand already and ask when Putin comes with russian troops to protect them. In addition he reports completely opposed about the school No63 incident, which was in the media in the Ukraine backed up by the Ukraine@War blog researches. You see and feel the short silence of astonishment. The man asks with certain rethorics if the journalist is even on their sides, questioning if his report about peoples statements are not one-sided. Instead of journalistic work he has to talk about his political opinion and explain himself. At the end this did not had much to do with locally news report and the connection was cut.

but nvm....

you forgot the gas on any medium to high depth sea bed

Are you talking about shale gas and fracking ?

Edited November 11, 2014 by oxmox

[beastcat 14]

Russian media accidentaly confirms that the separatists have been using russian T-72B3 tanks, which are in production since 2011 by filming a recaptured tank.

[surpher 1]

(Radio Free Europe) Don't Mention The Cold War

Mikhail Gorbachev says we're " on the brink" of one. Henry Kissinger thinks he knows how to avoid one. And Vladimir Putin seems to be trying to provoke one.

For this to be a Cold War, Russia would need to be a superpower. It is not. Moscow would need to lead a bloc of nations that enjoys rough parity with the West. It doesn't. And it would need to be offering an alternative model to Western liberal democratic capitalism. It isn't.

[Tonci87 163]

Russian media accidentaly confirms that the separatists have been using russian T-72B3 tanks, which are in production since 2011 by filming a recaptured tank.

oops :rolleyes:

[mistyronin 1181]

Russian media accidentaly confirms that the separatists have been using russian T-72B3 tanks, which are in production since 2011 by filming a recaptured tank.

It was an armored RV, that some people in Russia use to go on vacations...

[x3kj 1247]

And it would need to be offering an alternative model to Western liberal democratic capitalism. It isn't.

Why does it need an alternative economy model to have a cold war? Cold War isn't defined as Communism vs Capitalism. And we're not on the brink of a cold war. We are at cold war. We are at brink of a hot war if things keep going like that.

[mistyronin 1181]

And we're not on the brink of a cold war. We are at cold war. We are at brink of a hot war if things keep going like that.

A "hot war" that would benefit who? Russia can't defeat conventionally NATO forces, in fact Russia wouldn't be able to sustain a war against a middle-big size country. If Russia used any nuclear strike, all the World would turn against it.

So that doesn't make any sense. There's IMO no logical argument in favor of a "hot war".

About entering into a new Cold War yeah, that would make sense. Who is the one that get benefits the most from it? obviously Putin, as he would be able to keep in the Russian presidency for a few more years. Who would lose the most, the Russian people.

---------- Post added at 16:55 ---------- Previous post was at 15:25 ----------

( Bloomberg ) NATO Says Russian Troops Enter Ukraine as East Risks Open War

( Al Jazeera ) NATO: Russian troops in Ukraine now

( BBC ) Ukraine crisis: Russian troops crossed border, Nato says

[ProfTournesol 956]

( BBC ) Ukraine crisis: Russian troops crossed border, Nato says

Events in Ukraine seem to be turning full circle.

Indeed....

[x3kj 1247]

A "hot war" that would benefit who? Russia can't defeat conventionally NATO forces, in fact Russia wouldn't be able to sustain a war against a middle-big size country.

Precisely. Russia wouldnt benefit, russia would lose. Therefore the other side wins from a geostrategic standpoint -> expanded controll in territory, more ressources, a global adversary less on the map... So now tell me in who's interest it would be to escalate the situation? cui bono? The question i raised since the beginning of the entire conflict.

I doubt russia would benefit in a long cold war, when strict sanctions are in place and china stays neutral. The stuff you mentioned regarding putin - yes possibly, but those are short term effects. But geostrategic? No, it won't benefit from a cold war either in my opinion.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Fennek

[Tonci87 163]

Precisely. Russia wouldnt benefit, russia would lose. Therefore the other side wins from a geostrategic standpoint -> expanded controll in territory, more ressources, a global adversary less on the map... So now tell me in who's interest it would be to escalate the situation? cui bono? The question i raised since the beginning of the entire conflict.

I doubt russia would benefit in a long cold war, when strict sanctions are in place and china stays neutral. The stuff you mentioned regarding putin - yes possibly, but those are short term effects. But geostrategic? No, it won't benefit from a cold war either in my opinion.

Bullshit.

Putin is the one who has to win the most from the current situation. Putin only cares about Putin. Simple

[surpher 1]

(BBC) Russian planes to patrol in Caribbean, Gulf of Mexico

Amid renewed tensions over Ukraine, Western analysts say Russia has been returning to methods used to test Nato defences during the Cold War.

On Wednesday, Mr Shoigu said "long-range aviation units" would fly along the borders of the Russian Federation and over the waters of the Arctic Ocean.

He added: "Under the prevailing circumstances we need to ensure a military presence in the western Atlantic and eastern Pacific oceans, the waters of the Caribbean basin and the Gulf of Mexico."

Earlier this year, Mr Shoigu said Russia was planning military bases in a number of foreign countries, including Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua.

[mistyronin 1181]

Bullshit.

Putin is the one who has to win the most from the current situation. Putin only cares about Putin. Simple

Couldn't express myself better.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Bullshit.

Putin is the one who has to win the most from the current situation. Putin only cares about Putin. Simple

No, that's bullshit. Not that Putin cares about Putin, that part is normal and logical, but believing that Putin him self has the power to create such a conflict on his own.

It's like blaming Obama for not taking actions. Obama can't do this without congress support, and congress does what lobby firms tell it to. It's the will of the oligarchs, both in Russia and the US, and the rest of capitalist world for that matter.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I doubt any Russian oligarch could influence Putin. Quite the contrary actually, considering "non Putin's worshiping" oligarch were jailed or forced to flee abroad.