klamacz 448 Posted July 18, 2014 Personal opinion of mine: after downing civilian plane, the side which won't beg for immediate "cease-fire" is the side which should be held responsible for the shooting. (ITAR-TASS) No ceasefire needed to investigate Boeing case — Donetsk Defense Minister Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted July 18, 2014 Ukraine's foreign ministry says a total of 181 bodies have been recovered from the crash site so far, Interfax-Ukraine news agency reports. So Ukrainian officials have access to the crash site ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted July 18, 2014 True. But launcher's own radar has detection range only about 20 km. So, as I've said, rather low for successful engagement of high attitude target.Hm... What's up with IFF if radar mark of such plane as Boeing-777 differs much from any kind of UA fighter/attack plane or An-26-kind of transport? With those things you don't get a clear radar mark you only get a contact. The IFF only responds if the plane is friendly, otherwise you get no response. Both UA and RU AA can easily check if there is civilian Air traffic in the area, something the rebels obviously can't do. They just assumed that all air traffic has to be military.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) According to this source the separatists have transported their Buk back to russia: http://youtu.be/mICnsgEY7wE Also in this video the separatists talk about how they transported the Buk over the border from russia and how they shot down the SU-25 planes earlier. Later they say that they can't shoot their Grads because they dont have a spotter (Correctioner? Someone pls correct me on that) and that they are waiting for the Grad strikes from Russia. Edited July 18, 2014 by beastcat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted July 18, 2014 The terrorists destroyed an oil refinery today Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) ( The Guardian ) Malaysia Airlines crash: World demands answers from Russia after plane's destruction http://static.guim.co.uk/ni/1405672816595/Ukraine_Plance_crash_WEB2.svg (5175 kB) http://static.guim.co.uk/ni/1405679200492/buk_missile_WEB.svg (200 kB) One family lost members both in the disapeared flight in march and now in Ukraine. Really bad luck. Kaylene Mann lost her brother Rod Burrows and her sister-in-law Mary when MH370 mysteriously disappeared in March this year.Her step-daughter Maree Rizk and her husband Albert, from Sunbury near Melbourne, were among the Australians on flight MH17. The Burrows family has requested privacy on behalf of Ms Mann and her husband John. Edited July 18, 2014 by MistyRonin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted July 18, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je0EVpxEwvY Who will find one interesting thing in this video first? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xalteva 10 Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je0EVpxEwvYWho will find one interesting thing in this video first? Like the debris were just put by someone ... no impact spots ! looks like the plane got compeletely destroyed in the air before hitting the ground... Edited July 18, 2014 by Xalteva Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted July 18, 2014 Like the debris were just put by someone ... no impact spots ! Not this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted July 18, 2014 Like the debris were just put by someone ... no impact spots ! You mean as if the plane was blown up in the air, and the debris fall? BTW You shouldn't publish this video here, there are certain bodies shown in the general cuts of the video, and I see no point of seeing the passports of those who died, they deserve privacy, specially the kids. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted July 18, 2014 BTW You shouldn't publish this video here, there are certain bodies shown in the general cuts of the video, and I see no point of seeing the passports of those who died, they deserve privacy, specially the kids. IMO it's very strange that such a big number of passports remained totally untouched while all other stuff turned into pieces or burned. The plane had enough fuel in its tanks for huge fire that can destroy almost everything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted July 18, 2014 IMO it's very strange that such a big number of passports remained totally untouched while all other stuff turned into pieces or burned. The plane had enough fuel in its tanks for huge fire that can destroy almost everything. They probably were in the luggage, or protected by jackets and so on. Search in Google for other planes shoot down, as the explosion was in the air the fuel spread out., same with the pieces of the fuselage. If the plane had crashed, then the fuel would remain in the crash zone burning everything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted July 18, 2014 IMO it's very strange that such a big number of passports remained totally untouched while all other stuff turned into pieces or burned. The plane had enough fuel in its tanks for huge fire that can destroy almost everything. You are really desperate, are you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted July 18, 2014 They probably were in the luggage, or protected by jackets and so on. Search in Google for other planes shoot down, as the explosion was in the air the fuel spread out., same with the pieces of the fuselage.If the plane had crashed, then the fuel would remain in the crash zone burning everything. From what I've seen in other videos from crash site (I don't link them here as they are truly NSFW, the video I linked is the safest one - corpses are blurred enough) everything is either burned or badly damaged - luggage, fuselage, chairs etc. I'd understand if a couple of papers would be found but not such big number. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ProfTournesol 956 Posted July 18, 2014 I'm curious to know what's your conspiracy theory about this... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted July 18, 2014 You are really desperate, are you? I'm not desperate to post fake videos made two days before upload;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) I'm not desperate to post fake videos made two days before upload;) Oh, Ive heard this retarded fake already. If it was really true they would have more to show, what about the magic cache trick everybody uses? Oh and in the comments of the file the guys even said how this fake was made. Edited July 18, 2014 by beastcat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted July 18, 2014 I'm curious to know what's your conspiracy theory about this... The crash suits for Kiev. Too much. Some hours before crash Ukrainian Defence council released the statement that rebels have some weapons capable of destroying aerial targets at high attitudes. Then just after the crash many of Kiev officials cried about rebels shot down the plane and begged NATO to intervene. Also many Western media outlets posted accusations of Russia and insurgents (I've posted one example). Things happen too fast, don't you think? Then, why the plane had been guided into battle zone out of safe route? Mistake? Then why hadn't it happened earlier? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted July 18, 2014 From what I've seen in other videos from crash site (I don't link them here as they are truly NSFW, the video I linked is the safest one - corpses are blurred enough) everything is either burned or badly damaged - luggage, fuselage, chairs etc. I'd understand if a couple of papers would be found but not such big number. Well usually I always try to keep my passport in safe places inside pieces of luggage, anyway we are talking about almost 300 dead, so if they find a couple or three dozen passports, to me its not a surprise. I don't think the pro-Russians that collected them had faked all the incident. Besides the families from different countries and so on. At this point all the indicators aim to the pro-Russian assisted by Russia, it's also curious that in the main Russian media instead of becoming the main piece of news, its just one more. Then, why the plane had been guided into battle zone out of safe route? Mistake? Then why hadn't it happened earlier? The plane was not guided anywhere. The route was considered safe by the international air control above 9750 meters. The plane flew at 10.000. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted July 18, 2014 The crash suits for Kiev. Too much. Some hours before crash Ukrainian Defence council released the statement that rebels have some weapons capable of destroying aerial targets at high attitudes. Then just after the crash many of Kiev officials cried about rebels shot down the plane and begged NATO to intervene. Also many Western media outlets posted accusations of Russia and insurgents (I've posted one example). Things happen too fast, don't you think? Then, why the plane had been guided into battle zone out of safe route? Mistake? Then why hadn't it happened earlier? What is wrong with you? All of your points have been disprooven and explained already. Oh and here they have disprooven that spanish dude: http://www.stopfake.org/lozh-ispanskij-dispetcher-rabotayushhij-v-kieve-soobshhil-o-prichastnosti-ukrainskih-samoletov-k-padeniyu-boinga/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spooky lynx 73 Posted July 18, 2014 Well usually I always try to keep my passport in safe places inside pieces of luggage, anyway we are talking about almost 300 dead, so if they find a couple or three dozen passports, to me its not a surprise. The thing is that almost all luggage is destroyed. The plane was not guided anywhere. The route was considered safe by the international air control above 9750 meters. The plane flew at 10.000. I've posted link with routes of this plane in recent days. The last flight was directed too much to the east towards battle zone comparing with previous flights. So I'm curious what was it - a mistake or forced direction to unsafe zone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistyronin 1181 Posted July 18, 2014 Surrounded by four Kalashnikov armed bodyguards Pavel Gubarev, so called People’s Governor and one of the rebel’s leaders, came from Donetsk to see the scene of crash and promised to allow access to representatives of all the interested parties. But no investigators have been seen at the site so far. Gubarev couldn't say what happened to the black boxes of the plane, one of which was reportedly already found by the rebels. “International, European and even Kiev experts will be allowed here to receive all the information they need,†Gubarev said. “I wouldn’t like this case to provoke any further escalation (of conflict),†he added. That last line sounds to me like: ups, it was a mistake... If the Ukrainian Gov. had been the responsible the pro-Russians would try to call for as much international attention as they could. Instead of trying to cover it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beastcat 14 Posted July 18, 2014 "Malaysia has released a new breakdown of the nationalities of the passengers on board. Here are the details: Netherlands: 189 Malaysia: 44 (including 15 crew and two infants) Australia: 28 Indonesia: 12 (including one infant) United Kingdom: 9 Germany: 4 Belgium: 4 Philippines: 3 Canada: 1 New Zealand: 1 Hong Kong: 1 Unconfirmed nationalities: 18" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
