Iraq strike 'would open hell's gates'

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Sep. 11 2002,04:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 11 2002,03:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There will be no carpet bombing of cities, little urban resistance and a poorly equiped and trained enemy. Deliberatly endangering your troops is a conscious act, and wrong. Accidental deaths are just that. There is a significant moral difference.<span id='postcolor'>

Are you using your crystal ball to tell this?

It is naive to believe that Iraq lacks trained and equiped soldiers.  And in an urban situation, even an untrained soldier in an entrenched position can inflict heavy casualties on an invading force.  As much as we might all want to believe that the average Iraqi will gladly embrace the west 'liberating' them, I think any US campaign in Iraq will involve a lot of pine boxes landing back in CONUS.

I am not saying that is a good thing, or right. All I am saying is that without being willing to inflict a great number of civilian deaths in collateral bomb damage, the US had better go into Iraq with a willingness to take far more casualties than they have since Vietnam.

And we all remember how the US public reacted to 19 deaths in Mogadishu.  How will they react to the hundreds or thousands that will come in street to street urban fighting over the space of weeks or months?<span id='postcolor'>

Where were the well trained, drilled and equiped troops in the Gulf? Why will an opressed people defend their opressor? I very much doubt it. We shall see though.

[DarkLight 0]

It's not said that everyone feels opressed....

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 11 2002,16:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's not said that everyone feels opressed....<span id='postcolor'>

Saddam Hussain is a brutal dictator.

[Pukko 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 11 2002,03:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There will be no carpet bombing of cities, little urban resistance and a poorly equiped and trained enemy. Deliberatly endangering your troops is a conscious act, and wrong. Accidental deaths are just that. There is a significant moral difference.<span id='postcolor'>

I have to say thats one of the most extreme opinions I have heared for a long time. I will not flame you however, we all got our reasons for thinking this way or that.

You are basically saying this:

Deliberatly endangering your troops is wrong, deliberatly endangering civilians are right

When you start a war you are always deliberatly endangering civilians, and extremely much more if you use bombs the way USA does. What you are talking about is not just 'accidental deaths', but is indeed an act of deliberatly risking civilians.

I have went through military service myself, and in the extremely tragic event that I would have to serve in a war (and it would also have to be for a extremely good reason, or I would refuse - and take my time in jail), I would probably put a bullet in my own head if I found my self prioritating me and my dear friends over civilians.

The one and only reason for soldiers to exist is to 'risk' (one becomes quite aware that that is the fact when going military) their own life for a good cause. If there is no cause good enough for that --------> there should be no war.

Soldiers have in all history just been the 'ants' that perform the work of their masters, because its to dangerous for the masters themselves. In a time like this, when there is some nations with such a fucking sick culture that they want to participate in wars and deliberatly risk civilians, but not sodiers............

..........

..........

..........then terrorists who take their own lives (and thereby quite deliberatly 'risk' it) together with the civilians cant be worse, can they??

In WWII there were even clear examples of terrorism performed by the *good* allies, both over Europe with massive bomings of cities to 'demoralize' the axis, and ofcourse the to this time worst act of terror ever - the bombing of civilians in Hiroshima/Nagasaki.

[WhoCares 0]

Easy to say, but is he really that brutal against all? He is brutal against the Kurds, but so have been the Turks as well (of course, w/o chemical weapons). And as he is member of the sunitish majority in Iraq, he also opresses the Shiites in the south. But it is not much different in other arab countries the other way around. However, there are not many reports about brutality against the Sunites...

Don't get me wrong, he is a evil guy, but there are many a lot of other brutal dictators all around the world, they just don't sit on ~10% of the world oil reserves

[ran 0]

I WANT TO MAKE A FUCKING BRIDGEBUILDER COURSE !!!!!!!!!

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 10 2002,18:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 11 2002,16:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's not said that everyone feels opressed....<span id='postcolor'>

Saddam Hussain is a brutal dictator.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes but even dictators have allied countries or people that like them....

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 10 2002,19:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I WANT TO MAKE A FUCKING BRIDGEBUILDER COURSE !!!!!!!!!<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmm this is a weird situation....

OR you last your mind, Ran.

OR, i missed something in this topic....

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 11 2002,20:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 10 2002,19:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I WANT TO MAKE A FUCKING BRIDGEBUILDER COURSE !!!!!!!!!<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmm this is a weird situation....

OR you last your mind, Ran.

OR, i missed something in this topic....<span id='postcolor'>

yes you missed something , go to page 30/31 , ok i'll do it simple :

i am engineer in the french army

i got an EOD formation

the american bombs don't always explode neither does almost every other various kinds of explosives

since i'm an EOD , my role is to neutralize those explosives

disarming a bomb is hard and dangerous

i don't want to be an EOD if i go on a battle field

because there are too much explosives on a battle field

i want to have children

bombs and explosives are dangerous for your health

[Die Alive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 11 2002,14:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yes you missed something , go to page 30/31 , ok i'll do it simple :

i am engineer in the french army

i got an EOD formation

the american bombs don't always explode neither does almost every other various kinds of explosives

since i'm an EOD , my role is to neutralize those explosives

disarming a bomb is hard and dangerous

i don't want to be an EOD if i go on a battle field

because there are too much explosives on a battle field

i want to have children

bombs and explosives are dangerous for your health<span id='postcolor'>

LoL, that's pretty funny. Maybe you could become a cook or something, lol.

-=Die Alive=-

[DarkLight 0]

Aaaaah now i understand what you're saying

Your choice is the army and that's what you should do

Go disarm some for me man!

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 11 2002,20:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Go disarm some for me man!<span id='postcolor'>

don't say that to me or i'll send you a live mk82 via airmail

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 10 2002,21:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 11 2002,20:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Go disarm some for me man!<span id='postcolor'>

don't say that to me or i'll send you a live mk82 via airmail <span id='postcolor'>

Hmmmm, can you make that a Ford Mustang?

[ran 0]

no , but i can put a detonator in your pants

back on topic please

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 10 2002,21:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">no , but i can put a detonator in your pants

back on topic please<span id='postcolor'>

Naaah, nevermind i'll be happy just to shut up

Anyway, back to topic as you said.

I only hope one thing, and that's that whatever will happen, it'll happen in the US or in Irak.

I don't feel like going through a lot of shit! Especially not if it isn't Belgium that fucked it all up (is that possible?)...

Bah, i don't appreciate an attack on Iraq but if it's gonna happen then it's gonna happen. As i said, i just don't want to get involved in any kinda way....

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 11 2002,20:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 10 2002,21:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">no , but i can put a detonator in your pants

back on topic please<span id='postcolor'>

Naaah, nevermind i'll be happy just to shut up

Anyway, back to topic as you said.

I only hope one thing, and that's that whatever will happen, it'll happen in the US or in Irak.

I don't feel like going through a lot of shit!   Especially not if it isn't Belgium that fucked it all up (is that possible?)...

Bah, i don't appreciate an attack on Iraq but if it's gonna happen then it's gonna happen.  As i said, i just don't want to get involved in any kinda way....<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think Belgium's legions will be needed somehow.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 10 2002,21:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 11 2002,20:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 10 2002,21:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">no , but i can put a detonator in your pants

back on topic please<span id='postcolor'>

Naaah, nevermind i'll be happy just to shut up

Anyway, back to topic as you said.

I only hope one thing, and that's that whatever will happen, it'll happen in the US or in Irak.

I don't feel like going through a lot of shit!   Especially not if it isn't Belgium that fucked it all up (is that possible?)...

Bah, i don't appreciate an attack on Iraq but if it's gonna happen then it's gonna happen.  As i said, i just don't want to get involved in any kinda way....<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think Belgium's legions will be needed somehow.  <span id='postcolor'>

That's not what i was trying to say, i mean that i don't that our population gets involved, I was trying to say that i hope the battle stays overthere and that it never comes close to Belgium or any other country that has nothing to do with it....

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 11 2002,20:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't think Belgium's legions will be needed somehow.  <span id='postcolor'>

Of course not. W already has Blairs head up his ass, there cant be room for any other world leaders in there still

[DarkLight 0]

Belgium? World leaders? Bwahahahaha!

[joltan 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Sep. 11 2002,20:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 11 2002,20:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't think Belgium's legions will be needed somehow.  <span id='postcolor'>

Of course not.  W already has Blairs head up his ass, there cant be room for any other world leaders in there still <span id='postcolor'>

I think Mr Aznar is trying to squeeze in there, too. At least according to the bbc he didn't rule out a spanish participation - even without the attack being sanctioned by the UN.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Sep. 11 2002,21:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Belgium?  World leaders? Bwahahahaha!    <span id='postcolor'>

Quiet you, I am trying to defend your nation

[ralphwiggum 6]

well, here's what mandella has to say about this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2251067.stm

[Col. Kurtz 0]

At least Mandalla still has his head screwed on the right way in my opinion, so that means that half of you here think Mandalla is totaly whacko

I think that Maybe America needs ot 1.Come up with better proof than a few sattelite photos showing a construction site and 2.think this over before they run in with guns ablazing. They may be going after Iraq, but they could get a whole lot more than they bargained for if they do this the wrong way.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

little offtopic, but I saw this in a locked thread- best emoticon ever:

Alright, ignore me, I had to post it somewhere, thought that it might as well be here, because its sort of what I feel like doing to some of you guys when we argue this topic

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Sep. 11 2002,23:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">little offtopic, but I saw this in a locked thread- best emticon ever:

Alright, ignore me, I had to post it somewhere, thought that it might as well be here, because its sort of what I feel like doing to some of you guys when we argue this topic <span id='postcolor'>

lol, thats great