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sproyd

Sidearms in holsters - are we getting it?

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Sorry if this has already been mentioned somewhere but I don't remember ever seeing it... Question is: Are we ever getting sidearms in holsters?

I know sidearms hardly get used in Arma given the ubiquity of assault rifles etc but I always find it strange when my char has a completely empty drop-leg holster when he clearly has a pistol on him. I mean if its poly-count we are concerned with (although pistols must be low poly) then why bother modelling the holster?

Anyway I think it would just be another cool immersion factor, like the fire-selector switches on the ARs. Thoughts? Does not having visible sidearms bother you?

Update: Enough talk, more action - vote for the feedback ticket here

Edited by sproyd

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I agree. Why have a drop down holster if it is always empty anyway. Why not just remove it. It's like the legs not moving in when your flying a helicopter. It just takes away from the immersion factor.

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I agree also and have been meaning to ask this very question myself. Its just stupid having an empty holster all the time. It looks ridiculous and pointless.

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I thought that this woud have been one of the first small changes done with the character models from A2 but NO

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I'm guessing that with everyone complaining about other things that this is low priority for them, but it would be a really nice detail that would add to the immersion. Imagine pulling out your sidearm and seeing it being taken out of your holster...

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As I see it, the holster is not that detailed and the performance gain from removing it is negligible, take into account that you would have to make someone do it, and it's kind of a waste of resources. And while sidearms in holsters would be nice, it's probably just a low priority for them. In any case I'm sure it might be a good idea to put it on the feedback tracker.

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Its not going to happen (in A3) for one very simple reason: when they implemented pistols back in Resistance, the pistol was added as part of the right hand bone in the skeleton. This hasn't changed, so the pistol can not be animated separately from the right hand.

They would need to update the skeleton (to add the pistol as its own bone, like the rifle and launcher are) and then update every animation to include data for the pistol position. No small feat, so unlikely to happen in A3...

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You would also have to somehow have to modify the position based on the equipped vest - not every vest has a holster or might have it in a different place.

I guess it could be comparatively easily implemented by just gluing a pistol model to the vest model and then hiding/unhiding it via animation from the engine. Of course, cue "wrong pistol in holster" complaints :cool:.

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Its not going to happen (in A3) for one very simple reason: when they implemented pistols back in Resistance, the pistol was added as part of the right hand bone in the skeleton. This hasn't changed, so the pistol can not be animated separately from the right hand.

They would need to update the skeleton (to add the pistol as its own bone, like the rifle and launcher are) and then update every animation to include data for the pistol position. No small feat, so unlikely to happen in A3...

Sounds like it's way more work than a lot of people would think for no gameplay benefit, only certain people's inherently-subjective "immersion".

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You would also have to somehow have to modify the position based on the equipped vest - not every vest has a holster or might have it in a different place.

I guess it could be comparatively easily implemented by just gluing a pistol model to the vest model and then hiding/unhiding it via animation from the engine. Of course, cue "wrong pistol in holster" complaints :cool:.

Hang on, the sidearm holsters are all drop-leg holsters not vest holsters so this point is irrelevant

---------- Post added at 10:17 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

only certain people's inherently-subjective "immersion".

Would you say the same thing about the fire selector switch? BIS added that. I certainly don't think having a sidearm visible in a holster is subjective immersion it is absolutely fundamental immersion. Something is missing from the player model that should be there.

I mean look at launchers, they don't just magicly disappear into your backpack they are always slung over the back. Why not pistols?

If what DM is saying about pistols being part of the right hand bone is true this makes no difference whatsoever. Let me explain why. While the player has his primary equipped, the pistol models are hard locked into the holster. Once the player wants to switch to sidearm, the pistols in the holsters just disappear and reappear in hand with the current animations and models.

You can't tell me that it would be hard to extrapolate the existing detailed pistol models into the holsters. I mean the pistols have a working slide and everything they definitely exist as a discreet 3D object on BIS's computers. Yes, this might take some coding trickery but I honestly don't see how it would be that hard to just hard-anchor a new item to the holster when pistol is not equipped, and then disappear it when equipped.

I honestly see DM's argument as a cop-out and I feel to see how this prohibits or makes difficult implementation of pistols in holsters.

I'm not denying it would be more work but BIS has an (amazing) track record of attention to detail that makes this series so unique. Dragonflys casting shadows anyone?

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If what DM is saying about pistols being part of the right hand bone is true this makes no difference whatsoever. Let me explain why. While the player has his primary equipped, the pistol models are hard locked into the holster. Once the player wants to switch to sidearm, the pistols in the holsters just disappear and reappear in hand with the current animations and models...

...I honestly see DM's argument as a cop-out and I feel to see how this prohibits or makes difficult implementation of pistols in holsters.

Then you obviously have no understanding of how the system works.

Yes, BI could introduce a second proxy which would display the pistol when it is in its "stowed" state, but that involves writing a whole bunch of new proxy handling on the engine side, and means that pistols behave differently to rifles, launchers, binoculars, nvgs and flags (all of which are also proxy referenced models).

And yes, while the pistol is "hard locked" into the holster, it still needs to be animated (otherwise it would just float in space next to the characters leg when he moved).

There is far more complexity to the system than you seem to grasp...

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Its not going to happen (in A3) for one very simple reason: when they implemented pistols back in Resistance, the pistol was added as part of the right hand bone in the skeleton. This hasn't changed, so the pistol can not be animated separately from the right hand.

They would need to update the skeleton (to add the pistol as its own bone, like the rifle and launcher are) and then update every animation to include data for the pistol position. No small feat, so unlikely to happen in A3...

They already have updated every animation since resistance, sounds like one of those things they should have done while they had the chance.... oh well.....

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Well it seems like hostility from the most established members of the forums, while the newer members (or less frequent posters) with a more open mind think its a great idea.

I hope even the most jaded arma vets actually WANT to see this in the game despite their misgivings that such an endeavour would be clearly too difficult for the talented BIS devs.

And on that note I give you an Arma 3 feedback ticket to vote up

Edit: PS: Congrats Chortles/DM for being the first person to downvote the ticket.

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There was already a ticket for this...

I don't get why people vote stuff down because it's a lot of work though, do they think they are going to have to help out themselves? Would they rather the devs rested on their laurels and called it finished?

Vote for stuff if you want it and let the devs decide if they have the resources or not, they are the ones who know best.

I've said this before in another thread, it's just paying customers asking for a feature...

Having said that I do think there is more important stuff to do first, but this should go on the list for the future..

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There was already a ticket for this...

My bad, the feedback tracker is quite terrible to use though - no real search feature to prevent duplicates

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Hope that A3 devs are less fossilized that some members here. Immersion is made of little things like this, together with weapon resting, women civillians or tank interiors. Oh wait...

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Hope that A3 devs are less fossilized that some members here. Immersion is made of little things like this, together with weapon resting, women civillians or tank interiors. Oh wait...

You seem confused.

A perfectly objective and factual explanation of why something probably won't happen is not the same as saying "I don't want this". :rolleyes:

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You seem confused.

A perfectly objective and factual explanation of why something probably won't happen is not the same as saying "I don't want this". :rolleyes:

I'm not. Anything that could divert the devs from what they are doing ATM is systematically rejected by the same people with various arguments, "not useful gameplaywise" or whatever. Thanks god someone had the idea to create underwater environnement...

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Hang on, the sidearm holsters are all drop-leg holsters not vest holsters so this point is irrelevant

They're part of the vest though.

Well it seems like hostility from the most established members of the forums[...]Edit: PS: Congrats Chortles/DM for being the first person to downvote the ticket.

You were saying about hostility?

Edited by Deadfast

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Well it seems like hostility from the most established members of the forums, while the newer members (or less frequent posters) with a more open mind think its a great idea.

I hope even the most jaded arma vets actually WANT to see this in the game despite their misgivings that such an endeavour would be clearly too difficult for the talented BIS devs.

And on that note I give you an Arma 3 feedback ticket to vote up

Edit: PS: Congrats Chortles/DM for being the first person to downvote the ticket.

The only hostility I see here does not originate from me :)

I don't use the feedback tracker, so I have no need to up or downvote anything.

I understand how much work most of these "simple" changes are, and I understand the cost/benefit payout for most of them. I'm just trying to express some more informed and reasonable outlook as to why features which seem simple are actually not, and for that reason are unlikely to be implemented. And for the amount of work needed (through proper implementation or hacky-workarounds) for the relatively miniscule payoff that having pistols visible in holsters provides, we're unlikely to see it happen in A3.

You seem confused.

A perfectly objective and factual explanation of why something probably won't happen is not the same as saying "I don't want this". :rolleyes:

Indeed.

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They're part of the vest though.

Just checked and you are right the drop-leg holster is part of the vest item. Although all vests with drop-leg holsters have identical drop-leg holsters. Some vests like LBVs don't have any holster.

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I pretty sure a simple reach down animation to the holster can be implemented in game some time in the future. Within the 5 year supportive time frame BIS promised Arma 3, they should have opening and closing doors on vehicles in a few years when everything has been polished. Though, it would be nice to also have visuals like such, seeing the side arma you have inside the holster, just like how you always see your main rifle on your back. Just another simple feature that can be put in by BIS over time.

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Moreover, those of us who were around during the beta have already (briefly) seen that opening/closing doors was implemented on some vehicles.

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